A message to drama students

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
1

<p>As I read the threads lately, I realize that some of the info given on this forum is incorrect or possibly even lies. This is the problem with it being anonymous, anyone can say anything without any consequences to themselves. I am an adult and I have the wisdom to tell the difference from those who actually know what they are talking about and from those who don't. This forum has helped us substantially! But I do have some concern for the students on here, deciding between schools, that read this stuff, and may believe EVERYTHING they read.</p>

<p>So here is my advice.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Do your own research. Go to the school, and if that is not possible, try to speak to someone who does go to that school. If you have a question, call and ask the school. That way you know you are getting the CORRECT answer. They are usually very nice on the phone, even at the big prestigious schools. </p></li>
<li><p>Believe the positive people on this board more so than the negative people. A parent who is raving about a school has nothing to gain by doing so (unless they are secretly an employee of the school, and that is unlikely). But negative people can be angry, disgruntled and most likely jealous. I would not listen to students who write negative things on here in particular. HAPPY students are busy with class, rehearsals, friends, parties etc. UNHAPPY students are possibly alone in their rooms, on the computer... venting. That's why we tend to see more negative comments from students than positive.</p></li>
<li><p>As soon as someone writes "I know someone who....blah blah blah " Ignore it, and move on. I listen to first hand knowledge only.</p></li>
<li><p>The numbers given about how many audition are grossly exaggerated. I just read on another thread that someone said 2000+ auditioned at so and so school and accepted 30. This was a school not known for a top drama dept. I don't believe it. I heard right from the head of these drama departments, that Boston University auditions approx. 800, Purchase auditions approx. 800 and Michigan auditions approx. 350 (drama, not MT). Why in the world would thousands be auditioning at lesser known, less prestigious schools?</p></li>
<li><p>Just because someone else's son or daughter picked school x over school y has NOTHING to do with you. Maybe their son is shy, and you are not. Maybe their daughter wants science classes, and you do not. You have to find what is right for YOU.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>That's my motherly advice. Good luck.</p>

2

<p>You could have made your point in this thread without the first paragraph disclaimer that called other parent liars. I agree with your comments but I find your initial paragraph very disrespecting personally.</p>

3

<p>kcdunlap, I apologize if it sounded harsh, but I meant no disrespect to you or other well-meaning parents. I was not thinking of you or anyone in particular when I wrote it.
I was just trying to warn kids, that just because something is written here, does not mean it is true. Let’s face it, you can have one angry person, log on as several different people and say whatever they want. This is the internet! It happens all the time and not just on CC.</p>

4

<p>Based on what I’ve read in the last couple of months alone, I completely agree. I think it’s critical to keep this in mind for both next year’s seniors and those going off to college. Especially because of the distinction of some “lies” - some are blatant, talking about lesser known schools auditioning as many as CMU or Juilliard, but others can be extremely well disguised. It’s always good to ask current students of a school through Facebook!</p>

5

<p>MOMMY5, could you be more specific? I too found your initial post off-putting, but if you are not thinking of anyone in particular, who or what are you referring to? I’m sure everyone knows that this is the internet, so obviously people can say whatever they want. Is there some comment that sparked your post? I use CC as a resource and have found it very valuable. For instance, I like to use TripAdvisor to help me find hotels (not the same thing as CC but similar). Do people ‘lie’ there? Yeah, sure. But I feel I can sift through that and get an overall picture nonetheless, and usually I’m fairly accurate. You definitely raise many valid points; but I do disagree with you, however, that mostly discontented people comment and somehow, therefore, we can discount their comments. Yes, discontented people <em>may</em> comment, but their comments can be true (or not), and besides, people comment for all sorts of reasons. </p>

<p>A parent who is raving about the school indeed has <em>many</em> reasons to rave besides being an employee, albeit many subconscious: he/she is paying a small fortune for their child to go and has a vested interest in believing it to be wonderful. That is not sinister; it’s merely human nature. I myself want to believe that the school my older D decided to go to after lots of angst, sweat and tears and with a substantial hit on my wallet is the very best choice for him/her. </p>

<p>The other issue I’ve found is that most parents and students - not all - stop commenting after admission and the first year. But college is 4 years and then there’s the ‘real world’ experience. I would LOVE to hear more about 3rd and 4th year experiences, and post graduation experiences. There is a tendency, also human, to post only successes of your own kid. I learn just as much from failures as I do from successes, and would value hearing about mistakes, negative experiences, etc. That doesn’t mean I will definitely listen to someone’s grinding ax, but I do value specific comments from all across the spectrum. </p>

<p>So I’m wondering if there is something you are warning us about specifically. Some information that is untrue? If you know it to be untrue, then actually I’d appreciate you letting me and others know. Thanks.</p>

6

<p>ssjjkk, is there anything in particular you feel you can share? I hear you about the blatant lies, particularly about acceptance figures, but what do you mean about lies that are well disguised? What do you have in mind? It seems that there are particular posts that people are referring to, and I’m wondering if I’m missing something important. For anyone who doesn’t want to post publicly, you can pm me.</p>

7

<p>There was some talk about these HUGE numbers some schools say for the number of folks they audition (like 2000) in another thread. The conclusion that people reached was that includes all the people who audition at unifieds. If a school does a few unifieds in addition to holding on-campus auditions, it can claim that 2000 or more folks have auditioned for them.</p>

<p>KEVP</p>

8

<p>I think MOMMY5 is just putting up a cautionary message to those who read anything on line (including Facebook). You don’t know who is giving the information or why they feel the way they do other than what they write. She’s just saying it’s a personal choice for each individual and to take all the information on CC with a grain of salt. This is what I tell my friends about CC. I believe CC is a wonderful resource but I tell people to be careful and to not get “sucked in” to the stress and drama and absolutes that come with this resource.</p>

<p>Thank you MOMMY5, it’s good to remind readers from time to time.</p>

9

<p>I’m not clear on what specific bad behavior MOMMY5 is referring to, but it seems that she is trying to say that bitter adults have been providing negative and deliberately slanted information to unsophisticated teenagers reading this forum. It’s funny how subjective one’s experience reading a board like this can be. I don’t read every thread, but I have found the opposite–adults here are being generous and warm towards young people who arrive asking for advice. </p>

<p>For the most part people use this board as a tool to collect and share information. I suppose an occasional cries of frustration, angry rants, and ecstatic praise are all part of the data to be viewed and analyzed. Differences of opinion also provide useful information. Today’s 18-year-olds grew up using the internet-- they are are fairly sophisticated when it comes to detecting hyperbole and disinformation. Of course, no one should base a serious life decision on anonymous posts by someone with an ax to grind. </p>

<p>Anyway, big thanks to everyone who has generously offered advise and shared information.</p>

10

<p>Yes, amtc is right. It was more of a caution to the young people who rely so heavily on this forum. I didn’t mean any insult at all to any of the parents. I too have been helped SUBSTANTIALLY but I know who to listen to. Once I see things written I believe to be untrue or exaggerated, I no longer listen to that person.</p>

<p>I guess what got me started writing that, was in addition to to the exaggerated numbers, which I do think scares kids, is the negativity. I could list many negatives about EVERY top dream school. There are negatives and positives at every single one of them. My kid passed over schools that some other kids would DIE to get into. And we have “heard” some pretty awful things about them. But, I would never list those reasons on this forum. </p>

<p>Maybe school X would be considered horrible to my kid, but it is your kid’s first choice. Or maybe it is all you can afford? How horrible would it be for me to put it down? For some reason people feel NYU or let’s say CMU don’t apply to this logic. Well, the kids who got in there worked their asses off! How do you think they feel now reading all this stuff on here lately. </p>

<p>And I was also pointing out to HS students reading this that they have to remember that people do write negative things when they are angry or venting. And you are right, HoveringMom, people can write positive stuff to make themselves feel better about spending all that money. But, people can also put down a school, to make themselves feel better, for NOT spending that money, and sending them elsewhere. And I’ve been seeing that a lot. I know several people whose kids got into Tisch and sent them elsewhere because of finances. They now have negative feelings about Tisch, because the situation made their child sad, which I totally understand. But when they say negative things about Tisch now, I understand that it is human nature because they feel bad they couldn’t give their kid what they worked so hard for. They are my friends, and I am sympathetic. The same thing happens outside the drama world too.
I’m just letting the high schooler who reads here understand that.</p>

<p>And yes, few students write on here once they are in college. Why? Because the happy ones are busy with classes and friends. Of course this does not apply to EVERY student who writes here, but many. That’s why I listen to parents of students more so. </p>

<p>I’m sorry if I offended anyone. It was not my intention at all. And thanks to all of you who have been so helpful!</p>

11

<p>These kids are quite smart and if NYU is their dream school I doubt too many would be bothered by a disgruntled poster. I know mine wouldn’t. The only thing I disagree with a bit is the advice to pay more attention to positive than negative reviews. I read a lot of posts from students and parents talking up programs that are not realistically very high on the food chain. Doesn’t mean they are bad but if your looking at these boards a lot your perception of what’s a highly sought after program can certainly be skewed.</p>

12

<p>You asked for examples… I just read one. </p>

<p>A student from school X said there are 22 in their class. People were surprised by that and considered that a negative. So maybe they should choose school Y instead, which has fewer per class? But a mother just wrote that she asked her kid, who is in school X, and says there are only 12. Well that is a HUGE difference.</p>

<p>That’s why HS kids should call the school and ask for themselves. What if they chose not to go to school X because they thought the class size was too large, because of something they read on CC. (We all know what school I am referring to, but I thought to make this point the name wasn’t important!)</p>

13

<p>I totally agree with Mommy5 and the other posters that it’s so important to read through the wealth of information on these discussion boards critically and thoughtfully. There is information presented here, especially for a major like Musical Theater, that would really be impossible to discover otherwise…and I will be forever indebted to CC for this education. Despite some cases where information may not be backed up by data, it’s still all very well-intentioned and I am continually impressed by how supportive and kind CC parents and students are (though I am not a big fan of the “chance me” threads!).</p>

<p>That said, I’m not at all offended by your opening paragraph, Mommy5 as I actually came across a thread started by a college student from one UC campus who was it turns out was masquerading as a student from another one, and voicing some serious complaints (even garnering sympathy and helpful suggestions from other students), before one of them looked him up and saw that he had previously posted about being a student from the other university. It definitely shocked me.</p>

<p>This is only my 2nd post on CC, and I want to thank all of you who are so giving with all that you’ve gleaned over the months…years…</p>

14

<p>MOMMY5, that’s a great example–It didn’t occur to me that people would choose a college based on this or that minor assertion, and it’s so easy to check! But that’s a good warning. My own experience on CC has been tons of helpful parents, students, grads & even program directors devoting their time to help others–that has been the bulk of my experience. I realize sometimes people might have axes, but then that’s their own business. My own son didn’t have a positive experience at his own program, but I know for a fact that many students have had wonderful experiences at the very same program and it has a wonderful reputation. And there were positives for him even at the time, as well; it was just not a right match for him at that time. That means nothing for another student at all. Every school is unique and every student is unique. The biggest factor is fit. That’s personal. That’s why I think it’s most important to really know yourself and what YOU want and what YOU can offer–no one can tell you. But to my mind, CC helps guide you.</p>

15

<p>I’m going to be a freshman in the fall and I definitely used CC as a guide throughout this process of auditioning and applying to BFA/BA programs. I would just like to say, I think people on this thread are highly underestimating the intelligence of some of the prospective students. Yes we do read these boards and a lot of what is posted here is very helpful but at the same time it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to tell the difference between a fact and an opinion. No one is going to be outwardly positive about every single program because, let’s face it, all these schools are competing with each other and additionally every single one of them has their own flaws. I personally believe that some of the negative posts are just as valuable as some of the positive ones because not everyone is going have a picture perfect experience and there are certain aspects of every program that should be brought to everyone’s attention. If a post is unusually negative then I think it’s fairly obvious (to adults and students alike) that the writer of the post has had a bad experience and is using CC as a way to vent.</p>

<p>As an example of how a negative thread could be quite helpful when making decisions, I’ll use something I read on here about Depaul. Depaul is usually considered one of the top programs (on CC) for theatre and when I was first assembling my application list it was definitely one of the ones I was considering. This all changed when I read a thread about their cut system. I knew they did cut students after the first year or so but I didn’t realize just how brutal it was until I read that post (and I do realize the cut system has since been eliminated). If it wasn’t for that post, I wouldn’t have done further research and I may have never known that a school like Depaul wasn’t the right choice for me. </p>

<p>I think I speak for every student that frequently reads and writes on this board that the topics discussed and debated here are simply just useful information and are no way a decider of what is right or wrong for each individual. A lot of people on this board have really helped me but I know that at the end of the day, nobody knows me personally here and so I must listen to my own judgements when making decisions. A good example, in my case, is NYU. I really liked the program (from what I read on their website) and I was strongly considering applying but after reading (on many different websites, not just CC) about their ‘sketchy’ financial aid, I decided all on my own that I didn’t want to get myself or my family in a disappointing situation. What I’m trying to say is that most of us (prospective students) know what we want in a program and whilst some positive and negative posts may sway us, they are never the decider (at least not for me). By choosing to study theatre, we have already taken on a pretty brave decision and I think some people on this board do underestimate our judgement.</p>

<p>This thread is helpful but is in some ways stating the obvious that most of us drama students already know. Almost everything written on CC is an opinion and it should be taken that way. That really goes without saying for must of us students. </p>

<p>One thing I would like to say, mainly to future applicants of fall 2013, is that there are a certain number of schools that are somewhat glorified on this board, whilst some other great schools and theatre programs hardly get any notice. You always see posts about NYU, CMU, BU, Depaul, Rutgers, Uminn, UNCSA etc. but there are other programs that do exist and that are just as good and are in just as excellent universities. Two examples that don’t get much notice (or at least I don’t think they do) are UMiami and UMich. They both have BFA acting programs and they are both excellent universities and certainly considered more ‘top’ academically then some of the schools that get a lot of notice on this board. </p>

<p>CC is great and it helped me (and some particular posters helped me a lot) but it really is just for for the sake of information and that is something that is known to all of us students. Most of us are teenagers and as a group we’re known to be pretty persistent. Nothing too negative or positive written here will ever change our minds if we’ve already made them up. We’re all pretty bright, so trust me, we know an anonymous poster who doesn’t know us won’t influence our choices or alter our decisions.</p>

16

<p>JME1992, well said.</p>

17

<p>I agree. Leave it the student to have a solid head on the shoulders.
Absolutely anyone who reads anything on CC must know that personal opinion shapes everything. I also absolutely agree that, even if you know this, the angst of the process can make everything you read seem larger than it is. </p>

<p>Before I started looking at theatre programs on CC I looked in books and talked to our counselor about schools the other theatre kids went to. There were a good many more excellent programs mentioned than I saw talked about here. I did begin to feel my heart race when I began seeing most about Tisch, CM, Rutgers, Purchase, Julliard…I saw the admit rates and felt faint. </p>

<p>It was my D who finally said, I don’t want to apply to any of these programs. I know what I want and school X (the very first school we all read about that seemed a great FIT for her) is where I want to go. Yes, you have to do the research to find the good fit. We did our homework. One of the “go-to” schools mentioned above put us off terribly just in the tour (and I do think that posting tour impressions are valuable to others - positive and negative). She talked to a current student at school X who graduated from her HS. She talked to a school X grad now working in theatre in Chicago. She went there to visit and audition. She got a good feel. It may be that she was accepted becuase it really is a good fit. </p>

<p>Did I read negative things about school X here? Yes. You have to know everyone will find a negative somewhere. If people are not honest about their impressions and opinions they are useless. Just take them for what they are worth, listen to your kids and try to stay calm.</p>

18

<p>Thtr12, I agree that negative impressions are just as important for us to hear about as positive ones. But I do think it is more productive for people to report first hand accounts rather than hearsay. (I also had a bad experience at a tour for one of the schools you mentioned, and I’d bet it was not at the same school where you had a similar situation!)</p>

<p>There was also some false information being reported and that is what really bothered me.</p>

<p>I’m glad your D is happy! Congrats!</p>

19

<p>i will also just add…sometimes the negativity does come from an honest place. there has to be truth rooted behind whatever thing they are saying. But it may or may not be blown way out of proportion through their venting. don’t believe it wholly, but take negativity as words of caution…so you’re ready for it if you are ever faced with having to deal with issues that people have ranted about in the past. it’s important to read EVERYTHING and take it all with a grain of salt. the same can be said about all the positive raving that you can find here. i am now finishing up my sophomore year at my program and will say with all my heart that i absolutely ADORE the place…that it’s where i need to be to have gotten to where i am now in my process. but i’m not going to lie and say there are not problems i have with the program…as much as i love my program, i am constantly complaining about the little problems i wish it didn’t have–but what would you expect from a tired and overworked college student. i HATED my freshman year and i still cringe thinking about it…to the point of almost dropping out over the summer. most of this was the personal issues i was sorting out, but the environment of a bfa program almost suffocated me as i was desperately trying to face those said issues. the program probably helped in pushing and forcing me to face my fears and as awful as that time was, i needed to go through it. i will not lie and say it’s always been sunshine and daisies here, and it will never be that ever while i’m here…and honestly, i hope it stays this way. progress only happens when things aren’t perfect cause it keeps you moving along. what i’m trying to get here is yes, read positive comments and believe them…but also filter what you read. if you read a bunch of positive comments and are not offered one negative thing, that means you need to dig deeper and find out more info on the school. every school has its set of problems no matter how amazing it can be. it’s a matter if those problems are ones you think are worth dealing with as a trade off for the pros about the program. always try to find MORE of what you haven’t already read about a particular school…if you constantly read negative comments of a place, take heed of that, but look and search for positive comments. if you’re only reading positive things, look for what students are saying they possibly might not like about their school.
and i will echo again, if you can get information from the SOURCE…and this may get people’s opinions riled up, i mean the source as in students. parent’s opinions and comments are valid, but unless you’re talking money and financial things, they aren’t the ones who are currently experiencing the program first-hand. they’re not the ones who go to the classes everyday, they’re not the ones dealing with the fact that their academic counselor hasn’t a clue at all how to help you plan your 4 years there as a bfa student, they’re not the ones having to deal with issues within their dysfunctional family/class…you get the point. The most important opinions of a training program are the ones that belong to its current students.<br>
In addition, make sure you talk to multiple students. Every body has had a different journey and will have different things to say. The more students you talk to, the more truthful theview of the program will you get. It’s just like research and social experiments–the larger the test group, the more accurate the results.</p>

20

<p>Well said CCer2014!</p>