<p>I was having an interesting conversation with my cousin about choosing an undergrad school. Surprisingly, she just laughed and told me that I don't have to go to a top 20, prestigious undergrad. It's the grad school that matters the most. She attended University of Minnesota for undergrad (state school) and is currently a sophomore in Yale Law School. She says she's very happy that she attended U of M b/c she does not have to worry about paying the loans, like her classmates do, now. (In-state tuition is about $6,000) + she had a great GPA, which is harder to achieve in an ivy/top school (due to grade deflation and etc.)</p>
<p>I'd love to hear your thoughts. What do you think?</p>
<p>Yeah, I think this is pretty well known. But, prestigious undergrad = quicker gratification, <em>especially</em> for people who don't plan on attending grad school.</p>
<p>Personally, I think the best combination is highly ranked LAC + awesome grad school : )</p>
<p>I mean, it's not like your cousin went to a "non-prestigious" undergrad, though. Sure, UMN is no Harvard, but it's a very highly regarded school, considered one of the better publics in the country. So the difference between, say, UMN honors and Harvard is certainly there, but not as significant as some people make it out to be. But if we're talking about a significantly "less prestigious" state school...like ASU or Kent State, that might actually make a big difference. </p>
<p>Honestly, it just comes down to fit. I turned down a great public with lots of $$ for an Ivy, because of fit rather than prestige. Michigan is a wonderful school, but HUGE. I knew that I would be happier at a smaller, quieter, less-athletic, less-Greek school. I have friends who chose UWisc or OSU over "higher-ranked" schools because they really really wanted to go to a big, sports-oriented, work hard/play hard school. </p>
<p>So what I'm trying to say is that as long as the difference in reputation isn't huge, your cousin is probably right...if she loved UMN, that's great, and she saved money. But if you knew that you would hate going to a huge state school, then don't, if there are other viable options.</p>
<p>Also, going from high school to Yale or some students is just unbearable. Its almost better to go to a B-list school out of high school. If you aren't a total whiz, taking a small step from high to B-list, then from B-list to Ivy is a good plan.</p>
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Remember that you may not get into that prestigious grad school.
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<p>Right, I think that's very important to note. Every time one of these kind of topics pops up, everybody assumes that you'll be able to get into a prestigious grad school when you haven't even started your first day in college yet. It's a very different experience from high school, so your academic excellence may or may not carry into your college years.</p>
<p>You're really betting everything on an unknown and not taking a sure thing when you wait for grad school. It depends on how much confidence you have in yourself and how much of a risk taker you are.</p>
<p>The benefits of attending a less-prestigious school for undergrad and then attending a well-known graduate school may be appealing, but its important to keep perspective. There's a reason why those higher-end undergrad schools have a reputation for academic achievement and it has little to do with US News & World Report. Such schools have traditionally served as feeders to top grad schools and while getting into such a school from outside the top colleges is not uncommon (obviously), it is easier to do so with an undergrad degree from a more "prestigious" school. For a very talented, very driven student the task may be daunting but not insurmountable. Ultimately, it depends on the capabilities of the individual student.</p>
<p>Not to be smug or anything, but remember that at every school there is always a top 10% and the remainder 90%. It may be easier to be top 10% at a second tier school than it is at the Ivy League. True, someone going to Harvard or Yale, for example, would not have much difficulty getting into graduate school so long as they arent in the bottom of the class. But I know of stories of kids who got into HYP and were unhappy because of stress, workload and social factors they left. It happens at most schools in fact. So the issue is whether YOU fit academically or not. On the other hand, the school obviously thinks you fit if they admit you. </p>
<p>Would I turn down an opportunity to attend a prestigious Ivy? Not likely. But I doubt I would have been admitted anyway.</p>
<p><a href="In-state%20tuition%20is%20about%20$6,000">quote</a> + she had a great GPA, which is harder to achieve in an ivy/top school (due to grade deflation and etc.)
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Actually its more the opposite; ivies and other top schools are notorious for grade inflation. For example this is from 2002
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Last June, a record 91 percent of Harvard seniors graduated with some kind of honor on their diploma, The Boston Globe reported. About half the undergraduate grades last year were A or A-minus. CNN.com</a> - Grade inflation spurs Harvard changes - April 19, 2002
<p>If you're going to a pre-professional graduate program (law, medicine, etc.), then surely the professionals with whom you interact are going to be interested in where you received your graduate degree. That's probably less the case in liberal arts fields. I have a doctorate in Higher Education; I'm rarely asked about where I received it. OTOH, the undergrad experience is all about helping to create the student as an adult - her/his goals, aspirations, world views, open-mindedness to new ideas and perspectives. Those kinds of influences are generally more powerful at a top college or university, and that influence impacts all aspects of graduates' lives, not just their careers.</p>
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OTOH, the undergrad experience is all about helping to create the student as an adult - her/his goals, aspirations, world views, open-mindedness to new ideas and perspectives. Those kinds of influences are generally more powerful at a top college
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<p>That opinion is tossed around a lot, but I don't see it. I can see an argument that a top school could encourage a student to work extra hard and succeed more because they are surrounded by very successful peers, but why would a prestigious school be better for "open-mindedness to new ideas and perspectives"? I don't know if top schools have more racial and ethnic diversity than others, but you're often surrounded by similarly-achieving and (depending on where you go; probably not at places like Harvard but at "lesser" top institutions) similarly privileged students. Most of my friends who attend well-viewed LACs and privates are mostly surrounded by trust fund kids. At a public flagship you have a broad range of talent (people for whom that school was a dream and a reach, and others who got into ivies and went for the generous scholarship, or sports, or whatever). There's especially a range of "class" (and to a lesser extent economic bracket) diversity - something many privileged, top students aren't exposed to.</p>
<p>Okay, I know this is isn't the grade inflation/deflation thread, but what am I missing here? Ivies/top schools are extremely selective and enroll very intelligent and bright students. It doesn't take a math whiz to figure out that the more smart students you have, the higher the probability that you will have many students earning A's. Or, is it that the state school I attended had different math from the Ivies and top schools?</p>
<p>Anyway, I will get back on track. As previously stated, undergrad school selection should be based on fit (and finances if applicable). Btw, my niece attended her state flagship school with a full-ride and later attended a prestigious law school on a fellowship. Having no student loans to repay allowed her to accept employment in the Public Defender's office (as oppose to some big-wig law firm). Her clients don't care where she went to school!</p>
<p>As many have said, there is no guarantee that you or anyone will even be going to grad/prof school. That said, even if you do go, it is more typical to go to grad/prof school on a part time basis and often one that is convenient and affordable. Most of my friends who got their masters degree did not go to selective grad schools, even if they went to highly rated undergraduate schools. Many of them were already in a career and just need the MA or MS to get on a higher paying track and it did not make a whit of difference where they got that degree. A very good friend of mine just got a prestigious job at a good public university. She got her masters, partly through a correspondence course, a program I have never heard about. It is a valid masters, and that was all her employers needed to hire her. My son's prep school lists all of the teachers' schools, and many have gotten masters at local schools. Most, however, have gone to well known undergrad schools.</p>
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Okay, I know this is isn't the grade inflation/deflation thread, but what am I missing here? Ivies/top schools are extremely selective and enroll very intelligent and bright students. It doesn't take a math whiz to figure out that the more smart students you have, the higher the probability that you will have many students earning A's. Or, is it that the state school I attended had different math from the Ivies and top schools?
<p>My D would get a full-ride at a state university, and be accepted to their honors college, because she is a National Merit Semi-finalist (her score is high enough that this will happen). I'm already pretty sold on this university, but maybe that's just today--and tomorrow I might be uncertain.
She told me recently, before leaving on a trip, that she really wants to go to Johns Hopkins, and perhaps could get in. But the cost ($49,000/yr) is way too prohibitive.<br>
She will apply to a few lesser schools but in the end, finances will probably be the deciding factor.
I don't want to wreck her future chances at employment, however, as earlier posters have intimated, at least if she chooses to be a teacher.<br>
These are certainly difficult decisions.</p>
<p>See my response to you and your D on the USM thread. I reiterate that here. All things being equal, I lived in Baltimore Washington region for over 6 years and am very familiar with Johns Hopkins. Its a fabulous school. It is particularly strong in foreign languages and international relations, in addition to its nationally ranked medical school.....its very urban though a pretty campus. Its uptown Baltimore on 33rd and Charles. Nice row houses up there. Its a strong school academically and very competitive. Its not a school for wallflowers, shy people or the meek. Most kids come from the Mid Atlantic and Northeastern corridor, though they get students from all 50 states and many foreign countries as well. </p>
<p>You may well be offered a scholarship to attend. I would strongly recommend a visit to campus, walk around, talk to students, and visit admissions. You may well get an indication of their interest at that time. If you are from Miss'ippi as I suspect, that may be another hook for them. But it may also be that you would feel out of place there. </p>
<p>Prestige works in many fields like law, medicine, foreign service, and sometimes business. In the field of education, if your intent is to become a high school teacher for example, being from Johns Hopkins will help....but is it necessary to get the job? Its a FABULOUS language school......and then getting into a prestigious graduate program after that is relatively easy. But I just sort of ponder that aloud. Then again, kids often change their majors many times while in college. Going in premed and coming out philosophy majors....its not unheard of.</p>
<p>I would apply where you want to go, embrace your match and safety schools and then wait and see what happens with admissions and scholarships. </p>
<p>And of course a free ride is nothing to sneeze at. If her goal was to work on WallStreet, the answer would be entirely different.</p>
<p>I think it's naive to say that going to a very, very well-known school for undergrad won't give you some kind of advantage, whether you're applying to grad school or looking for a job. There's a reason that HYPSM have the highest placement rates for the top grad schools. But the advantage that prestigious undergrad confers is probably still very slight, compared to other significant matters in the application process. It's certainly possible to get into the top grad schools from less well-know undergrad programs.</p>
<p>Most kids who get into a selective undergrad school are in the group of highly successful people. Whether those same kids go to a select school or not, is often not of great relevance. Studies have been done, showing that such kids are successful regardless of where they go to school. One of the reasons that kids from HYPSM kids have such high placement rates is that those schools are made up of kids that would do well anywhere.</p>
<p>people seem to take it as a given that public are cheaper. But that shouldn't be so quickly taken as an assumption with FA getting so good. My tuition was several thousand dollars less at my expensive private (Georgetown) than my state flagship (UIUC) after FA. And Georgetown has a puny endowment at that. I can only imagine the difference at a more well-endowed school.</p>