<p>cdn - i dunno where youre pulling 13k from. I previously told you that University of Florida (a top school if you are unaware) is 2k a year. That beats any comparable university in Canada in terms of cost. Furthermore, UNC (which is ranked higher than Tufts, NYU, BU, BC) is 4k a year. There are almost no state schools that require you to pay 13k a year. And since you mentioned the avg canadian tuition is 4k-7k, it is evident that americans pay the exact same amount....with less taxes.</p>
<p>Sorry, my mistake. On the University of Florida website (<a href="http://www.admissions.ufl.edu/annualcosts.html)%5B/url%5D">http://www.admissions.ufl.edu/annualcosts.html)</a>, I was looking at the total On-campus and Off-campus cost, not strictly the tution. You're right, the tuition alone is just under $3K. Wow, you guys are getting a great deal!</p>
<p>I think in Canada the funding for universities comes partially, if not mostly, from the provincial government. My province is doing extremely well right now (finally paid off the provincial debt!) but all the provincial government promises is a few years without tuition increases. At least the government is opening up more spaces in the two main universities and is trying to reduce class sizes at the elementary/high school level.</p>
<p>"I believe McGill and Queens routinely take people with scores at or above 1200. University of Florida has an avg SAT score of 1260 and you have to factor all the instate kids that bring that down."</p>
<p>Actually, the <em>minimum</em> SAT score for the McGill Faculty of Arts this year was a 1320. The minimum score for the Faculty of Arts and Science was 1340, and I don't think any other faculty's minimum was below 1200. So if McGill's minimum score is right around or higher than UF's average, I'd say McGill is more selective.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes... British Columbia Institute of Technology.</p>
<p>I heard it was as good, if not better, than MIT.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I can't tell if you're joking or not. BCIT is merely a trade school, whereas MIT is a world-class institution in math and science.</p>
<p>oshkeoto - I want to see a source because I have a hard time believing that 1320 is the minimum for McGill. If 1320 is the minimum, then the avg is 1500? Youre out of your mind. Read up about McGill. It is known, at least in america, as a good school that is not as selective as top publics in the states. I maintain my previous statement that McGill is as selective as the University of Florida.</p>
<p>cdn - yeah ontario is the richest province in revenue but Im almost positive alberta is the richest in net profit (which is what counts). I like the way Alberta is run as it is not conservative in the american sense and it is not ultra liberal ie the rest of Canada. Personally, I feel the liberals are wasting Canadian tax dollars, especially in southern ontario where they have such a strong-hold they feel they can get away with bloody murder (which they do eh).</p>
<p>aca0260, from McGill site -- </p>
<p>" 1. Arts: B+ average in grades 10, 11, and 12; B+ in grades 10, 11 and 12 English (B in AP English); 660 in each SAT I and II (including an English) or 29 ACT composite.</p>
<ol>
<li>Arts and Science (B.A. & Sc.): A- average in grades 10, 11, and 12; A- grades in all of the following: Pre-calculus and Science courses in grades 11 and 12, English courses in grades 10, 11, and 12 (B+ in equivalent AP courses); SAT I V 670, M 670 and each SAT II (including one Math) 650 or 30 ACT composite."</li>
</ol>
<p>^ Which is admittedly only for American students, but I remember the McGill site saying to all students that the cutoffs (for Faculty of Arts, which is what i paid attention to because that's where I'm going) would be between 620-660, depending on the strength of the applicants. So there is not much, if any, discrepancy.</p>
<p>ok guys i stand corrected based on the official site. However, I know several cases of people getting in with scores in the 1200's so I dont think they rigidly enforce that minimum.</p>
<p>Well, it varies by faculty and by year. So some of the minimums would allow people in the 1200's to get in--but I think you're wrong about enforcement. McGill only admits based on standardized test scores and grades, so they have nothing else to go on. Not to mention that the site says that many people who were qualified score-wise were still rejected for one reason or another.</p>
<p>Mcgill is actually pretty selective...probably more selective than most state schools in america (except uva, umich, berkley)</p>
<p>I can assure you that McGill is far more selective that university of florida..i know some who got into florida (out of state) with a 1120 SAT and 3.1 GPA...he got straight out rejected from almost every canadain university he applied to expect york and carlton...</p>
<p>ace0260...u never heard of sunshine scholarships in florida?...one of cousins got it..he just barely passed the IB. He has a full ride scholarship to unversity of florida...he is partying like hell there right now..
and he didnt even do that well on the SAT...1150 or something...</p>
<p>i dont know how u can say university florida is more selective than mcgill...the only reason people with 1200 sat score get into mcgill is beacause they have an extrememly high GPA (which mcgill looks at more than SAT scores). McGill is not an american school...so they dont give the SATs much weight unless ur an american
I agree the quality of education at McGill might be similar to florida as florida does have a lot more money to waste than mcgill could ever dream off...</p>
<p>and aca0260...ur experiences are not reflective of the student population in general...only a very few people take the APs....less than 5%?...
I dont see how you can claim that the education system in america is better from that...
the rest of the population are doing stuff i did in 9th and 10th grade...which is pretty sad</p>
<p>and for the person who said you cant 8 IB subjects....ofcourse you can...one guy in class did 8 subjects...there is no restrictions. they just count 6 towards your IB diploma. </p>
<p>and maybe you want to know that unless you do like 10 AP subjects..you cant even begin to compare it to IB program (which i actually think is pretty easy, just a lot of work). The reason american schools give credit to AP subjects but none for IB standard level subjects (which are equally hard) is beacause they are biased..the APs are afterall AMERICAN...and secondly most schools dont know s*** about the IB and how hard and challenging it is... </p>
<p>The ontario high school curriculum is actually comparable to the IB to some extent, they learn a lot of the same material...it definatley a lot more challenging than getting american high school diploma (most people get that with their eyes closed) </p>
<p>another thing...a lot of international students come to american because american universities are considered to be best in the world (afterall america does have all the money)...I definately agree that america has by far the best post secondary education system in the world but that doesnt mean canada is bad...</p>
<p>even though unversites canada may not match the elite schools like HYPSMC...it certainly can match the top state schools in america
and in terms getting a quality education...value for your money...canada is a million miles ahead of america (especially for international students)</p>
<p>i mean i dont understand why an international student would waste $200,000 going to a ivy leauge school (espeically since its extremely hard to get a job in amercia after you graduate, you have to go back to your country after 60days)....why not just buy a house or something with that money...by the time you get out of college it will a hell lot more</p>
<p>imo, it's easier to get to canadian universities (although for some business and comp sci schools, it's highly competitive). like other ontarians have said, they only look at your grade 12 marks... the grade 11 marks don't count as much, only for those wishing to get early admission...</p>
<p>i don't know about the states but i know a lot of schools here offer entrance scholarships that are easily attainable (such as the one in york, if you have a 90%, you're automatically getting $4000 CDN). </p>
<p>also the admission system here is quite different than the states. i believe unis have cutoff overall averages (GPAs?) of your top six courses, anyone lower than that would mostly get rejected. those who are above that cutoff will most likely be accepted. so people here know more beforehand the likelihood of getting into the unis of their choice</p>
<p>Why would an international (specifically Canadian) student want to go to an Ivy League school?</p>
<p>Simply put.</p>
<p>No Canadian institution can replicate the environment of being amongst the best of the best. Unless your high school is fortuitiously gifted with other enthusiastic human beings that want to do something beyond worrying about buying clothing, getting an Ipod, then very few of the Ivy calibre students have had the opportunity to collaborate with students with the same sense of drive and motivation to do something with the life than merely "live" it in the way most people imagine. Environment shapes individuals and to a very high level one can motivate oneself, collaborate on the internet, take advantage of opportunities, but nothing compares to the influence that a personal discussion has upon an individual.</p>
<p>To be surrounded by the best, most inspired students in the world. University of Toronto and Mcgill simply do not compare in that regard.</p>
<p>Visionaries, perhaps albeit too fantastical, that believe that the world can be changed; with whom, you can discuss an eclectic variety of topics in the middle of the night whilst enjoying the activities that normally preoccupy university students - over a game of poker and what not.</p>
<p>Economically and educationally, as a Canadian, (with the exception of a large amount of financial aid) it makes much more sense to stay in Canada if that is all one cares about - economically it makes much more sense to stay and the educational value in terms of the curriculum is almost entirely the same - the concepts do not change from university to university and any good student with some initiatve can adapt to the circumstances posed at each respective.</p>
<p>What distinguishes Canadian from the top American is simply the environment - to be amongst the best of the best - an intangible that is debatable as to whether it is worth it or not. For some like myself, the cost is well-worth such an opportunity, while others priority may be placed on the previous examples cited.</p>
<p>My thoughts on the Ontario education are as follows. Grade 9 and 10 curriculums are incompetent in their coverage of mathematical and scientific concepts - it is ridiculous as compared to the United States. Nonetheless, the Saskatchewan education system (having been a participant in it - holding a 99% average, which dropped 10% upon coming to Ontario, but resurrected to a respectable level again within a year) is abysmal and I am grateful for the opportunities that Ontario has provided (luckily on my entrance to junior year, they introduced Advanced Placement).</p>
<p>I have heard anecdotes (circumstantial) that Saskatchwean purportedly has the highest number of students with averages over 95%. I believe this attests to the lack of competitiveness and ease of the system to some degree.</p>
<p>High school students in the United States immediately have the opportunity to take specific histories, immediatley access Advanced Placement courses, immediately take honor biologys or honor physics or honors chemistry (which from a colleague of mine that has moved here in grade eleven are encompass almost all the concepts covered in grade eleven and twelve chemistry). This breadth of opportunity and choice is unavailable for students in the Canadian public education system.</p>
<p>Again, my perspective is biased - I speak from the parochial perspective of being amongst the top students in my school (which is little prestige to me knowing that I am almost certainly below average in the context of the world - China, India, United States, Japan and Singapore if you will).</p>
<p>Regarding the International Baccalaureate program; I had the opportunity to enroll in a high school that offered it (I completed 5 Advanced Placement courses, 2 of which independently this year). Holistically, I believe that International Baccalaureate is a superior educational experience to the Advanced Placement program, assuming that one enjoys spending time at school. At times, I feel that I regret the integrative study of knowledge from a breadth of topics (exemplified Theory of Knowledge) that Internatinoal Baccalaureate provides. However, on the other hand, the program binds the manner in which one can spend time through the copious amounts of homework that I have heard stories from my International Baccalaureate colleagues. In terms of performance upon contests (perhaps some indicator of academic performance of a particular program), International Baccalaureate makes no difference. Furthermore, given my distaste for the snail pace of the Ontario education system, not being in International Baccalaureate allows me to indulge in my true intellectual curiosities - providing time to read books, write essays and independently develop my own curriculum in a sense. International Baccalaureate is for individuals that are unable to motivate themselves at times and can help them towards excellence, I feel. For independently motivated learners, from my own experience (keeping that in mind), I would not recommend International Baccalaureate - one's time may be better spent performing other tasks of interest - piano, extracurriculars, etc. This is not a defense of the academic rigor of Advanced Placement, which I find rather lax compared to the standards set by some universities (having had the opportunity to also take courses at university).</p>
<p>Some of my thoughts.</p>
<p>I have two things to say in response to that.</p>
<ol>
<li> I have gone to public magnet schools in Chicago (where you have to test in), and I have found the atmosphere absolutely exhilarating. Not everyone there is gong to the Ivy League (the vast majority, in fact, are not), but everyone is intelligent, creative and capable--which, for me, is much preferable to a setting full of people who all have the specific kind of ambition necessary to go to Harvard. I decided to go to McGill over Brown, in fact, because I felt that in Montreal I would have a wider range of people to get to know and rub off on me, and that my experience there would be richer than the relatively enclosed environment at Brown.</li>
</ol>
<p>That being said, I have two friends who are going to Harvard, and I'm sure they'll love it.</p>
<ol>
<li> American high school students do not all have the opportunity to take honors and AP classes at will. The elite public high schools offer those kinds of classes, but the majority of American public high schools--especially in urban areas--are not well thought of.</li>
</ol>
<p>Should I go to UBC or University of Michigan?</p>
<p>HYP or McGill?</p>
<p>Wow, some of the negative comments about Canadian Universities are misinformed.
If you really researched Canadian Universities, you would learn that they are definitely on par with some of the best universities in the world.</p>
<p>i agree with waldo, although the admittance rate is relatively higher than us unis, the quality of education is on par with some of the unis down south. </p>
<p>i think for the most part, the main reason it's also cheaper up here is because most of the unis are funded by the government. the majority of the unis down south are privately owned.</p>
<p>this thread is quite subjective really. consider that we all have different criteria in judging universities, and prize different qualities and values. is there really a 'right' set of criteriato judge the universities by? is there a distinct line that separates public universities from private ones in terms of the overall education? perhaps a us university would be better for some, not so good for others, and right out for a few. same goes for canada. it all depends on what we are looking for that defines for us 'prestige' and 'good education'.</p>
<p>many of the factors that have been brought up remain empirical, and many rely on statistics. while this certainly reflects somewhat on the university, how does one place a value judgement or a definitive score on education? for example, one might say 'X university costs a lot, is a private university, has a 15% admission rate, has 97% freshman retention, etc.' the fact is this tells you nothing about the university at all because it is like trying to judge the character of a person based on his income or the size of his family. perhaps what really matters is the quality of life one experiences there. and that is something one can never place a concrete value on.</p>
<p>university isn't all academics and numbers. ultimately, us or canadian, university is what one makes out of it. the university gives you the opportunity. the rest is up to us.</p>
<p>Chancellor_Phoenix..</p>
<p>u seem to have this extremely elitist attitude...you make it seem like people who dont go to ivy league schools are just plain stupid...</p>
<p>anyway i choose mcgill over cornell...not for the cost because my dad's company pays anyway... </p>
<p>I rather be with people who know how to have fun and not study all the time and anyway academics is not the only important thing in life, obiviously you havent experienced any of the others...Mcgill offers the best of both worlds for me...why would i want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere with a bunch of nerds?</p>
<p>I sirously think these people who talk about having an intellecutally stimulating environment and claim to be superior to everyone else are just losers or social rejects...going to an ivy is not gonna benefit you that much more than a public school like mcgill</p>