<p>My D is a sophomore intending to major in MT in a B.F.A. program (or similar BM program) when she gets to college. She is currently taking our NY regents level classes in all subjects, including our school's honors level in English and Global Studies. She is also accelerated a year in math, so is currently in the 11th grade regents level math. Our school (a smallish public high school) offers few A.P. classes, but one of them is AP U.S. History which she would be scheduled to take next year based on being in the honors Global Studies this year. However, the same teacher teaches both of those courses and we are having a problem with that teacher this year due to D's missing quite a few classes due to performance obligations. She has also been sick several times this year. He is recommending her for the A.P. class almost against his will, based on the fact that her grades are still fine (A- average after 3 quarters, which also gets 6 points weighted at the end of the years, so will really be A or A+). But he has made it quite clear to both of us that he thinks she shouldn't take the class. She doesn't "plan to major in history" and "is planning a performing career" (his words) so he feels it isn't necessary. I have tried to explain that I think the type of colleges she will be looking at (and the necessity for scholarship money) would make it important for her to take as academically challenging a curriculum as she is able, but he does not see this as important. Is it important do you think? She does not want to take the course with him, since we both feel he will be unnecessarily harsh when she misses classes for performances (as she surely will), and I don't want to set her up for failure. But I can't help but think that UM, CMU, NYU, etc. would want her taking AP if it is offered! Help? Any thoughts? Thanks for any input!</p>
<p>Ah, APs A subject near and dear to my heart. :) Tell her to think about it this way ... She can take it now while shes still in high school and her schedule isnt nearly as tough as it will be in college or she can take it in college where some schools use the GE requirements as weeder courses and the profs will most likely be even less understanding about absences. I think at most schools, six absences on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday and four on Tuesdays and Thursdays are allowed. Beyond that, its an automatic flunk.</p>
<p>Thesbo: Where did you get this info? "I think at most schools, six absences on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday and four on Tuesdays and Thursdays are allowed. Beyond that, its an automatic flunk."</p>
<p>I would definately talk to your advisor about this and find out how much power this teacher has over grading. My son's experience would lead me to say skip the class. His junior year spring quarter he was cast in a professional production with 10AM and 1PM shows three weeks in March. Before he accepted he talked with each of his teachers and set up a game plan to make up the work. He went in early every morning to meet with the teachers and get the assignments and did everything according to plan. When he got his final grade he got a B instead of an A from this one teacher. He asked her why and she told him part of her grading was seat time. He protested to the administration, but was told that the teacher had ultimate control over grade requirements. In the long run it didn't matter he got into every highly selective program he wanted except one - but I still think the teacher was dishonest not to tell him her seat rule.</p>
<p>Mtmommy,
Look at the Undergraduate Catalogues of the different schools for absentee policies. I was anal and read them front to back at my schools. LOL They vary and some are more hardcore than others. Actually, I think at most, it's more of a "W" or a "WF" than a pure "F" if you miss too many days. Either way, you still have to take the class over again and it doesn't look good on your transcript.</p>
<p>I second cluelessmc's comments. While having the AP on your transcript and the AP credit in college will be nice, it's probably not worth the heartache and trouble. IMO, one AP class will not make a difference at all, and if you truly think there will be some question about your daughter's academic motivation, you can attach a small note explaining the circumstances behind her decision.</p>
<p>However, if she doesn't take AP US History, does that mean she can't take AP Gov't?</p>
<p>Shauna</p>
<p>Thesbo--I laughed when I read what you wrote because I think a lot of us here at CC are a little anal. That's another thing we have in common ;). I have never been a student at a private university, but I was a student at public universities for more years than some of you have lived (yeah, I'm weird). I've also taught college for almost twenty years--again, all at public universities. I can say that at public schools it doesn't usually matter what the catalogue says; every course is conducted differently. The teachers make the rules, for the most part. So for anal types it's dangerous to assume one could have a lot of absences in a course, particularly since the teacher is unknown until the last minute in many cases. Nevertheless, it is certainly possible to pass courses, even many courses, in college and have a lot of absences. Of course, I should mention I HATE it when my students do that . . . !</p>
<p>Some comments from my AP experience: Over the years, I've missed half days of school all the time because I perform at theatre's outside of the school and often sign out early for matinees when I'm doing these performances. I've always been lucky in that my AP's have been in the morning. If they had been in the afternoon on my schedule, I think some of my teachers would have flat out failed me anyway because most AP students are the "never-absent" types and that's what I think the teachers expect (and for good reason of course) and my teachers have always been in such a rush to cover such a great depth of material that missing just a day can mean missing a whole lot of important lecturing or timed essay writing and there are tests constantly. I also can say that both of my AP classes this year have daily discussion participation type grades which were very important to our learning. There's just so much to consider. That being siad - every situation is different and there are always exceptions. For example - I have my math class 7th period! AAH! So when I signed out early for matinees I would go to this class during my lunch period and therefor it was like I didn't really miss it on those days even tho I definetly wasn't there for 7th period. If I hadn't had that option and a kind math teacher - it would have been a lost cause! :) I would just have your daughter really consider everything. I think some of the schools you mentioned (UM?) might be used to admitting students who DO generally take AP classes...but ... that's speculation. I never looked into UM so I have NO clue what their standards and statistics are. A student can certainly be very successful by doing very well in honors and general level courses. </p>
<p>What timing to be having this discussion! Our AP tests have just started this week! The english one hasn't got me sweating but I don't even wanna talk about government!</p>
<p>i think APs are a no-lose situation for us hopeful MT majors....I am taking the AP music theory exam this upcoming monday....while it is ideal that I get a 5 (haha yeah right), the fact is that most of the schools I am applying to won't even give me credit for a 5.....they will instead give me a diagnostic test at the beginning of the year and i will indirectly get credit for taking the course in high school presumably......however, if my worst nightmare comes true and i get a 1 or 2, my schools just won't know about it lol!</p>
<p>Shauna, yes, if she does not take AP US History, she also cannot take AP Govt. as a senior. And the only other AP course she will ever be able to take would be French her senior year since our high school does not offer AP Bio (which she would like to take, but they only offer a Forensics class through SU instead, which hardly seems a productive use of her time and she has NO interest in) or AP English (they offer a college level class through Syracuse University which she will take). Oh, and AP Calculus which she would rather die than take! lol!</p>
<p>Beeze, thanks for your input. I hadn't thought about the time of day being important, and I'm not sure what period AP History is offered, but you're right that my D has missed more of this teacher's classes than any others because his is right in the middle of her day, so on many occasions she has been able to leave after the first or second period and be back for the last couple, but his is period 5, so THAT has been a problem. I'll check into what period AP History is offered, since our school is small enough that there is only one period of each honors/AP type class. Also I'm checking with other local schools, not in our district, to see if she could take AP History somewhere else so we don't have to deal with this teacher.</p>
<p>But how about other kids who've gotten into these selective MT programs. Did your kids have AP classes? Were they offered scholarship money without AP classes? Just trying to get a feel for whether it's worth the potential aggravation, because my D wants to take the class, she's just kind of afraid of the teacher at this point due to the negativity lately!</p>
<p>Yay for AP Biology, Euro History, and Art History which I WILL own. Thats thirteen hours of credit for me. Ten go for GEs and three count towards electives with a score of four or five. Woot Woot!!!! (MUST psych myself up to study as I sit here procrastinating on CC.) My mantra for the week ... Thirteen hours ... Thirteen hours ... Thirteen hours ... What is the sound of one hand? THIRTEEN HOURS!!!</p>
<p>BTW, both AP Euro and U.S. History count for two courses at a lot of colleges. SIX HOURS!!! Twelve if you take both. Important and mucho significant, IMHO. :)</p>
<p>My s has been SO grateful that he took AP Comm Arts (English) in high school. It wasn't so much that he was able to have that requirement out of the way for college but more for the fact that he had an incredible education and now able to easily turn out A papers in college without a lot of effort. I know that many of the programs require writing assignments for performing courses. These kids are even busier in college than they were in high school. I agree with the suggestion to check out the college catalogs to see how that school takes AP credits. BUT things change and kids may not get into their first or second choice or may end up feeling that their university or college not a good fit and want to transfer after freshman year. My s has done some Equity shows...and many of the performers encouraged him to take advantage of his academic education. And of course there are schools that DO look at your grades, test scores and AP classes for admission. I allowed my son to do a show that required some time off in the afternoon and he also did a short tour where he missed school for a few months. If I had it to do over I would have have said no and kept him in school. Every student and every school is different, but I think that a well rounded education is important. And as for the teacher that grades down for missed classes...I think that is an important lesson for these kids. That DOES happen in college.</p>
<p>Depending on one's grade's of course, but in most cases getting into the MT program is much more difficult than getting into a university with an MT program. If your daughter is eligible for AP courses I would guess that her GPA and test scores are probably high enough to get her into most universities that have MT programs. So in terms of getting into an MT program, I don't see taking another AP course as having much effect at all. As far as scholarships, some is based on the audition,some is based on academic, and possibly some on need, only th middle of which is affected by grades. I would think it would have to be very borderline for one AP course to make a difference. I will say, though, that OCU initially offered my son a $6,000 academic scholarship with his 3.74 GPA because their minimum for a $10,000 academic scholarship was 3.75, even though his ACT was several points above their minimum for the higher scholarship. They only went up after receiving his last 6 weeks grade report, which raised it to 3.75. So if her grades or class rank are close to some cut-off, possibly it could matter. My recommendation is that it's probably not worth the aggravation with a less than supportive teacher.</p>
<p>Just a few points about the benefits of taking AP classes and the exams.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The colleges which look at academics as being as important as the audition for these kids are almost always looking for their applicants to have taken the most rigorous curriculum offered at their high schools. Remember they'll see this in the school profile which the guidance counselor will send.</p></li>
<li><p>Having AP credit, usually a 4 or 5 on the test is necessary, is always a benefit, even if it doesn't 'get you out of' a particular class in college, but only gives you elective credit. </p></li>
<li><p>One big reason for having as many credits going in as possible, which I haven't seen mentioned here but which is extremely important in the years to come, is that many colleges schedule registration based on the number of credits. Therefore, the more credits you have, the earlier you get to register, each and every year. This can be a perq like no other! :)</p></li>
</ol>
<p>On the subject of AP classes, although I know this isn't really the right CC thread, does anyone know what happens if someone can't make it for the AP test? Illness . . . or a school trip?</p>
<p>Mtmommy--</p>
<p>There are makeup days for the tests; I took one of my tests on the makeup day last year because two were scheduled for the same time.</p>
<p>Thanks, Shauna! That helps a lot!</p>
<p>AP US History - My son is taking this particular exam tomorrow and has had 4 AP exams this week (he is a junior). He is fairly much a perfectionist student and works / studies himself nearly to death to make sure he does well. Last year he had a 4 on his only AP class exam - World History. He also probably has the highest grade this year in the AP US History class, but this is due to very much effort and a tremendous amount of study hours. Our school makes the parents sign a form committing to the extra hours of study required - I think the history courses say it is 10 extra hours a week. </p>
<p>He also frequently performs in professional theatre and just finished a 6 week run at a dinner theatre that has shows every day but Monday. He did have to miss classes for this show's rehearsals and a couple of matinees. Our school works with him, even in AP classes, but mainly because he is a good student, keeps up his grades, and spends extra hours as the teachers are available after or before school. </p>
<p>The commitment needed to succeed in AP classes is enormous. I also think it will be well worth it, based on the colleges we talked to. I agree with everything said by alwaysamom. It really will help with hours needed at most schools, and it helps the grade point at our school with the grade inflation they give in AP. Taking the AP exam is not required at our school, but the students must take it to get the grade inflation for the course (they bump the GPA by .5 for an AP course - so an A becomes a 4.5). The public schools in our city give a whole 1.0 grade inflation for AP courses - so an A becomes a 5.0. Each college can tell you the amount of credit given for AP and the exam score needed, and some are more generous than others. </p>
<p>We think that at many schools, having AP credits for some of the liberal arts requirements will give him more time to take electives in areas of interest (could be more MT, more dance, or maybe visual art in his case). It might even allow for a minor in something else.</p>
<p>I'm getting the feeling that it would be important for my D to take the AP U.S. History course next year if we can work it out. That is what I had thought, but thanks for everyone's comments. My D is a very good student, not brilliant, but bright, and a "good school trier" as she likes to say, and as I have mentioned, we do not have many AP courses in our high school, and not taking the ones she is eligible for really seems like it wouldn't help her chances of getting into the programs she would be auditioning for. It seems you never know what might tip the decison in your favor if 2 auditionees are fairly similar, so if the better academics, test scores, and advanced classes might work to tip the scales in her favor, then she ought to go for it! Now if we can just get the teacher on board with that idea! It is not that my D isn't ready and willing to do the work, she is a very dedicated student and well liked and respected by all of her teachers- this particular one just seems to have a problem with her missing classes for perfomances and is making her feel bad. And you know how teachers can make your life miserable if they want to! (I am a teacher by the way! lol). I also agree that if she can take some of the AP courses, then she will be able to waive some of the college courses, then would have more electives perhaps. That would be nice too! And the honors/AP courses at our HS get 6 points added onto the final average due to the extra work required, so that helps in the GPA. I' m still working on the possibility of having her take it at another local high school, but have called 3 so far and none of them can allow it for various reasons. We'll see what happens, but thanks again for your advise.</p>
<p>My son took several AP classes in High School and is just completing his freshman year at Point Park. Because of the credits he earned, he had sophmore status for registering for spring semester. The really interesting thing to me, who is struggling with tuition payments, is that he could get his degree in three years!! His advisor tells him that several students in his situation have completed their BA in MT in three years. If he goes for the BFA, he will need at least 3.5 semesters. Needless to say the chance of saving a year's tuition interests me, but I won't try to get him to consider that unless that is what he wants.</p>