According to what I’ve heard and what I’ve read, it seems like the UC’s treat their applicants like numbers…nothing more…nothing less. Every unique, individual person is essentially converted into a number…the meaning of which no one really knows. Here is my biggest problem with the UC’s: Lets take two schools. One where the teachers give out A’s like Santa gives at lolly-pops and another that grades fair, but tough. Furthermore lets say a dumb kid gets a 3.9 at the inflated school, and a much brighter kid gets a 3.8 at the tough school… There is nowhere in the entire UC admissions process that takes that into acount. ( Fine…the SAT’s of the smart kid may be highr…but that may not make up for the immense amount of inflation that gets COMPLETLEY overlooked by UC admissions). Does anyone else see this HUGE problem??
<p>more like numbers, especially at Berkeley. Not converted, per se, but they have a numerical system that you must bypass before they even consider you, combining GPA and SAT. School history also matters; there are people from my school with mediocre GPAs and mediocre SATs, but still got in b/c it is pretty reputable. So the two schools scenario doesn't really matter at the point that a) SAT and GPA do not correspond b) they get an information packet from each school and c) they have history with schools. The UC admissions DOES NOT overlook this problem completely.</p>
<p>not to worry, Joel, but no adcom is gonna care about a difference of 0.1 grade point. But, first readers ARE aware of HS curriculum bcos they are recruited from your local area, so strength of school does matter. Also, the UC campus recieves your school grade report, and they can easily see that only xx% of your class received an A, or that an AP teacher only gives out one A a year, but all kids in the class receive a 5 on the AP test. That's why a top HS like Troy in Fullerton may get 50+ kids into Berkeley, whereas podunk HS only gets their Val accepted.</p>
<p>Well, it's complicated. There are 9 UC campuses, and while they all use the same set of general principles, they all apply them differently. At Riverside, and I assume Merced, if you meet the minimum published standards for GPA, test scores, and class completion, you're in. The other 7 have systems which differ to varying degrees. Davis and San Diego have disclosed pretty rigid systems - which do not take into account the different grading standards at different high schools. (In fact, San Diego gives extra credit for attending a bad high school.) Berkeley and Los Angeles have more flexible standards, which may take into account the issues you raise (or not - can't tell.) And I have no idea of the exact process at Santa Cruz, Irvine, or Santa Barbara.
But I think your basic premise is valid: UC weighs HS grades much more heavily than test scores. SInce HS's are inconsistent, the process is inexact. However, the basic premise - that HS grades are a better predictor of college success than SAT scores - is defensible. Once you accept that premise, you have to sacrifice a degree of precision in comparing student A with student B in favor of the overall goal. And that appears to be what UC has decided to do.</p>
<p>You don't get admitted because of your GPA, your grades are just what puts you into consideration. You get admitted because of everything else.</p>
<p>TTG</p>
<p>Kluge:</p>
<p>In the old days, yes, meeting min requirements meant automatic acceptance to UCR and UCSC. But, check out Merced's acceptance rate -- they rejected over 1000 apps (I was shocked)</p>
<p>It is complex and very different than just 5 years ago. GPA is most important along with strength of course load. SATIIs count more than SATIs (double). A very high SAT score, however, can get you in to the middle UCs with a more mediocre (3.5) GPA. </p>
<p>It's become just brutal to get into the top 3. With great grades and scores and hardest classes, you'll still need a great essay. What was most interesting to me this year was how many kids got accepted at one mid tier UC and rejected at others even though the averages are almost identical. Essays do matter.</p>
<p>It's even more complicated than that, Zagat. The "minimum" UC standard weights SATII's twice as much as SAT I's, but that's only to meet the minimum system-wide standard. When individual campuses review the application they don't have to (and don't) follow the same formula. UCSD's formula last eyar (used to be available but the site is gone now) weighed SATIs and SATII's the same - with each 125 points of test scores on any of them equal to .1 point of GPA. (That is, a 4.0 GPA with a 1200 SAT plus 3 SAT's of 600 each totalled 6400 "points"; a 3.9 GPA with a SAT of 1250 and 3 SATIIs of 625 apiece yeilded the same number of "points' in the UCSD formula. But that was last year. This year, who knows?) That's different from the UC-wide formula used to calculate minimums. Crazy.</p>
<p>kluge/Zagat:</p>
<p>with the changeover to new SAT, the UC's no longer weight the SATII's for eligibility, so total is now 2400+1600=4000.</p>
<p>Also, since the UC pushed for the new SAT, you gotta believe that they will look closely at the new Writing score (unlike the Ivies who will likely ignore it); my guess is that a 700 will be the floor for Berkeley and UCLA for an unhooked bwrk.</p>
<p>Even that may depend on majors. Engineering applicants will probably need good math scores at those schools which admit by majors. Hey, forget trying to figure it out. Pay your $40 per school and let them tell you the answer...</p>
<p>"no adcom is going to worry about .1 percent grade point"</p>
<p>Really? Im not sure myself, but wouldnt thier be a big difference between 3.8 and 3.9?</p>
<p>heck no, remember it's easy to game the system by juggling honors/ap and end up +/- 0.1; under comp review, they'll check strength of schedule, test scores, essays, and others, i.e., tips: first gen to go college, low income, poor performing schools.</p>
<p>kluge: engineering will require Math 2, as one of the subject tests.</p>
<p>3.9 and 4.0 makes a big difference to me...</p>
<p>whoever thinks berkeley and UCLA's admissions are just number games, then be prepared for a shock during the college decisions stage. as evidenced by this year's acceptances/rejections, they obviously took more into consideration than just GPA/SAT. i hope you do know that it IS possible that berkeley (well, they do for sure) and UCLA read your essays because there are multiple committees that split up and read the apps. check out the insider video on berkeley admissions... they take into consideration extracurriculars too. for the other UC's, it's more of a numbers game, but not purely because other factors can still come into affect. sometimes you get anomaly acceptances/rejections where a kid unexpectedly gets into one school but not the other.</p>