<p>That is a very good question. I would like to hear from posters who complained about the lack of diversity at UCLA , UCSD and other privates comment on this issue.</p>
<p>U of M claimed that the diverse student body enhanced the learning experience. THis is bogus. THis implies that students have some sort of obligation to other students to enrich their lives based on their particular ethnic background. WHy do URM's have different views than non-URM's? THey don't.
By definition, AA is racial discrimination. Racial discrimination is wrong and is destructive to our society. Please don't support racial discrimnation.</p>
<p>I think that diversity has the potential for enhancing the learning experience, but I would not limit that diversity to racial or ethnic. (I think that colleges realize this, too.) Also, I believe the learning experience is looked at more broadly than just the classroom. Hopefully the learning is not limited to laboratory & classroom exercises & discussions. College is social learning, as well as intellectual. I also think it's been determined that full economic integration is predicated upon the <em>opportunity</em> for an equal education. However, that assumes that an entering student of any background can meet the minimum entrance standards. (Hence the earlier discussion about K-12 preparation.)</p>
<p>I agree with epiphany. Diversity is both scholarly and social diversity. It is about race, ethnicity, geography, income, gender, experiences, religion, interests, etc.. My S has become involved in some activities we would never have thought of had he not roommed with others with different interests than his. And they happen to all be from different states and have different ethnic backgrounds.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Does anybody ever claim that a lack of racial diversity makes it tough to get a good education at Howard or Morehouse?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>EXACTLY!!! Why is there always a reverse standard for the ivys and the top universities?</p>
<p>
[quote]
U of M claimed that the diverse student body enhanced the learning experience. THis is bogus. THis implies that students have some sort of obligation to other students to enrich their lives based on their particular ethnic background. WHy do URM's have different views than non-URM's? THey don't.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How does it not enhance the learning experience? The best way to learn about the DIVERSE country that we live in is to be exposed to people of different religions, ethnic backgrounds, political views, gender, sexual orientation, etc. If a white male went to a Catholic, all-white school full of straight republican men, how could he know anything about another culture? All he would hear would be rumors and stereotypes. Why can't people have the opportunity to meet a person of a different heritige and have the chance to dispel these stereotypes? This is why stereotypes are still present today. People continue to live in their boxes and refuse to venture out into the world and actually talk to someone (dare I say) DIFFERENT.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Does anybody ever claim that a lack of racial diversity makes it tough to get a good education at Howard or Morehouse?
[/quote]
Cmon guy, this sort of question (and the few responses to it) only confirm to me that the more we are removed from Americas history, the more sincerely heartless we are going to become toward blacks and each other.</p>
<p>Schools like Howard and Morehouse are direct reactions against the System, which, for much of American history completely forbade blacks from gaining an education. When blacks could legally gain education, they still had no real place to go because whites continued to forbid blacks the ability to attend Americas existing schools. Leaders like Booker T. Washington and the whites who helped him, simply took this for granted and responded by building schools like the Tuskegee Institute, Howard and Morehouse.</p>
<p>By the time the ideas behind Brown had gained any sort of real footing in America, many of these schools were over a hundred years old, having educated several generations of blacks, and they were still fulfilling this relatively narrow and yet critical mission as Brown moved through the Supreme Court.</p>
<p>Since Brown did not solve the problems at the heart of black education (** ahem** RACISM), and since the System refuses to change so that these problems can be severely reduced, these schools still serve a critical purpose for very many black Americans who think they could not otherwise have much of a chance for an education.</p>
<p>In short, they came about in response to Americas extraordinarily harsh legacy of racism against blacks. They still exist as they do because the wounds of that legacy are very deep, leaving many blacks to think the Systems deck is still stacked heavily against blacks and that therefore the schools are still needed if blacks are generally going to have any sort of a real education. Few complain about the lack of racial diversity at them because it was a shameful lack of racial diversity in American education that forced them into existence in the first place.</p>
<p>I don't question that students learn from other students in a variety of settings. However, what specifically are people learning from other people because of their race? This suggests that certain ethnic backgrounds have consistent attitudes and beliefs, which is not the case. Regardless, this does not justify racial discrimination. If you believe that it does, what else justifies racial discrimination?</p>
<p>Good for UCLA for not succumbing to affirmative action.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't question that students learn from other students in a variety of settings. However, what specifically are people learning from other people because of their race?
[/quote]
Many things, possibly that race is more a social construct than anything etched in biological stone. And that is very useful, dont you think?</p>
<p>
[quote]
This suggests that certain ethnic backgrounds have consistent attitudes and beliefs, which is not the case.
[/quote]
There are groupings of behaviors that have strong cultural relationships to race. I think, however, as people get to know one another, they may discover a capacity within themselves to focus less on race and more on culture. What we have done so far in this country is something like choosing a computer because it just looks so pretty when in fact it may be built of old technology. The plain rack mountable box in the corner, however, maybe the latest thing going, and yet it is overlooked. Both machines speak TCP/IP, which allows them to get along just fine, with not even the slightest problem, as they share information on the same network. What people need to do to gain real education is to deal more with our capacity for exchange and less with other things. I think bringing students together of other races makes this possible.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Regardless, this does not justify racial discrimination. If you believe that it does, what else justifies racial discrimination?
[/quote]
I think nothing justifies it. But racial discrimination takes place as a matter of our culture. So I think it is understandable that schools might wish to consider race as they admit students to try to offset some of this mess. Maybe its not the right solution. I don't exactly like it, but I think it has merit until the System can be routinely overcome or altered.</p>
<p>"This suggests that certain ethnic backgrounds have consistent attitudes and beliefs, which is not the case."</p>
<p>You would perhaps be surprised by how many people do not know this until they spend extended time (e.g., college) in an ethnically diverse setting. Diversity educates regarding similarities, distinctions, differences, & a multiplicity of viewpoints about the same issue.</p>
<p>First of all, I don't think anyone is saying that you can't get a good education at a non-diverse school. Of course you can. But, that doesn't change the fact that there are benefits to being in a diverse educational environment, particularly if you define education more broadly than what you learned in class today. And yes, I do think students in Howard are missing out - which is not to say the school should be shut down. </p>
<p>I also acknowledge that not everyone has specific values and experiences because of his race or ethnicity. If someone is a close friend of mine, he's going to learn something about Judaism at some point. If someone is a close friend of a completely non-observant Jew, he will likely learn nothing. However, that doesn't mean that a school with very few Jews shouldn't be glad to get a Jewish student, because if the population is absent, that learning can't even potentially happen.</p>
<p>And I think I have personally learned some things from having a more diverse circle of friends in college than I did in high school. Some of them are things I should have known already, but that just shown how much I had to learn. For one thing, if I were in this debate a year ago, I would have been taking a different position. But beyond that, while it is easy to be cavalier about, say, racial profiling as a necessary evil when it is completely removed from your experiences, when your best friend is telling you that her bag was just searched at a local store, it gives you a different perspective - and lets you feel at least a hint of the anger that Dross is talking about. There are other, more cultural/religious things,too. For example, if you'd asked me about the practice of speaking in tongues, I once would have laughed and thought of it as ignorant superstition. But this year, I met an intelligent (and a pre-med, no less) Pentecostal who believed firmly, and while i'm not going to revise my own religious opinions, I realize that I was ignorant to look down on that as a fringe belief. On the other side of the coin, I met a very conservative Black Texan who told me that, hearing about some of her views, her RA took her to an LGBT event. Again, she's not a liberal after that, but she did admit that she was surprised that gay students were so normal - having never met a gay person, she thought that each would be a walking stereotype.</p>
<p>On a more practical level, when people talk about ways to lessen the racial gap in the earlier years, I think of a wonderful program I learned about this year called Prep for Prep. It selects high achieving minority students from low income areas in 5th or 6th grade, puts them through a year or so of intense catch up work (its almost a second school in itself), and then gives them a test to determine which area private school they qualify for. Once in the program, all students are guaranteed a spot at a private school, and the best get into the top ones. The program follows students through high school and even college, taking them on college tours, giving them application help, getting them internships and summer jobs. It doesn't help every student, but its a start. And while I could have read about it in the paper, that would not have had the impact of meeting members of the program and seeing the huge positive impact it had had on them.</p>
<p>Diversity educates regarding similarities, distinctions, differences, & a multiplicity of viewpoints about the same issue.</p>
<p>Yes I see this in my daughter sports team- all the coaches are african american- all the players except for about 5 about of about 40 are minority, mostly african american. Trying to organize events, and the running of the events require a whole new way of looking at things ,than I was used to with similar groups that were more of a mix.
I am learning, but a couple parents who are ( white) and are more rigid in their expectations are having a more difficult time.
It can be frustrating though to widen our perspective , but I expect our kids who have these opportunities to work with a wider group of kids whn in high school and college, will have an easier time when they get to the workplace.</p>
<p>ICargirl:</p>
<p>Thanks for posting #251!</p>
<p>"And yes, I do think students in Howard are missing out - which is not to say the school should be shut down. "</p>
<p>I agree, but I also think you could make a pretty reasonable argument that most African Americans are very, very familiar with white culture (whatever that might be!) While whites in many parts of the country may be considerably less familiar with minorities.</p>
<p>And yes, I agree that learning that ethnic stereotypes are exaggerated is an important lesson.</p>
<p>I can see why African americans may want to attend college where they are the majority, possibly for similar reasons why some women are interested in womens colleges.</p>
<p>However, I do believe that many of the womens colleges belong to a consortium of schools where some men may take classes at the womens college and they take classes at the co-ed schools.
I don't belieive that the HBCUs have a similar agreement with more diverse schools.- which actually could be pretty interesting-</p>
<p>"I don't belieive that the HBCUs have a similar agreement with more diverse schools.- which actually could be pretty interesting-"</p>
<p>Actually I'm pretty sure they do. Or something similar. It was either take a junior year "abroad" at a historically black college or the reverse if you were at one. I thought it sounded like an interesting concept.</p>
<p>
[quote]
our capacity for exchange
[/quote]
Dross, that's a lovely way to describe the major human talent.
[quote]
racial discrimination takes place as a matter of our culture
[/quote]
In my America defender mask, I would like to change 'our' to 'every'(which you might very well mean) because I think it is quite natural and prevalent(although highly tragic) to mistrust what appears different and to feel more comfortable with the familiar. This is why we waste so much time trying to persuade others to become like us, often through indefensible pressures. Overcoming racism is an achievement, just as culture is an achievement since it curbs our violent animal nature and permits, through agreement/threat of punishment, the strong of arm not necessarily to conquer. This is an important distinction without which it becomes all too easy to lose what has been gained since abandoning the caves in our envisioning that city on the hill. Groups treat alien groups as uncivilized, backward and in need of conversion. That we pass on the streets without clubbing each other is fairly impressive in my book and I will consider it extraordinary that we should one day want to go catfishin or have tea.</p>
<p>yes I see for example Morehouse has a program for 60 students to study"abroad" either foreign or domestic, but it sounds like lots of hoops to jump through, I was thinking a more casual relationship that might be utilitzed more-often like students from Georgia Tech taking a history class at Morehouse and students from Morehouse taking engineering at Georgia Tech.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"I don't belieive that the HBCUs have a similar agreement with more diverse schools.- which actually could be pretty interesting-"
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Spelman offers a dual-degree engineering program in cooperation with the following institutions: Auburn University, Boston University, California Institute of Technology, Columbia University, Dartmouth College, University of Florida, Georgia Institute of Technology, Rochester Institute of Technology, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, North Carolina A&T, and the University of Alabama in Huntsville. Students in the program undertake liberal arts course work at Spelman for three years, then spend two years studying engineering at the partner school. The program confers a pair of bachelors degrees, one from each institution.</p>
<p>U.S. schools which have exchange programs with Spelman are : </p>
<p>Babson College
Barnard College
Bates College
Bryn Mawr College
Claremont McKenna College
Connecticut College
Dartmouth College
Douglass College
Duke University
Grinnell College
Haverford College
Middlebury College
Mount Holyoke College
Mills College New York University
Occidental College
Ohio Wesleyan University
Pitzer College
Pomona College
Scripps College
Simmons College
Smith College
Stanford University
Tufts University
University of California
San Diego
Washington & Lee University
Wellesley College
<a href="http://www.spelman.edu/academics/offcampus/international/index.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.spelman.edu/academics/offcampus/international/index.shtml</a></p>
<p>Columbia College participates in an exchange program with Howard University. Each year interested Columbia juniors who are in good standing may spend one semester (not to be repeated during their stay at Columbia College) studying at Howard, a historically Black university in Washington, D.C.</p>
<p>Columbia College partners with Barnard College in an exchange program that permits Columbia women who are juniors to spend a semester (not to be repeated during their stay at Columbia College) at Spelman College, a historically Black womens college in Atlanta, Georgia.</p>
<p>The Stanford Exchange Program was established in 1978 to provide a cultural and academic enrichment experience for Stanford students in a black institution of higher education. The Exchange now has participation from three Historically Black Colleges: Howard,Morehouse and Spelman, and from Dartmouth College for students interested in Native American Studies.</p>
<p>Howard University has a reciprocal agreement (even exchange) with the colleges and universities listed below. There must to be a participant at the Host school interested in attending Howard University for an exchange to take place.</p>
<p>The schools listed below with an asterisk (*) require a cumulative grade point average of 3.0 or higher.</p>
<p>Exchange Opportunities may be available at the following schools:</p>
<p>Clark University (Massachusetts) - <a href="http://www.clark.edu%5B/url%5D">www.clark.edu</a>
Colby College (Maine) - <a href="http://www.colby.edu%5B/url%5D">www.colby.edu</a>
*Columbia University (New York City) - <a href="http://www.columbia.edu%5B/url%5D">www.columbia.edu</a>
*Davidson College (North Carolina) - <a href="http://www.davidson.edu%5B/url%5D">www.davidson.edu</a>
Denison University (Ohio) - <a href="http://www.denison.edu%5B/url%5D">www.denison.edu</a>
*Duke University (North Carolina) - <a href="http://www.duke.edu%5B/url%5D">www.duke.edu</a>
Grinnell College (Iowa) - <a href="http://www.grinnell.edu%5B/url%5D">www.grinnell.edu</a>
Mills College (California) - <a href="http://www.mills.edu%5B/url%5D">www.mills.edu</a>
Ohio University (Ohio) - <a href="http://www.ohio.edu%5B/url%5D">www.ohio.edu</a>
Reed College (Oregon) - <a href="http://www.web.reed.edu%5B/url%5D">www.web.reed.edu</a>
Rutgers University (New Jersey) - <a href="http://www.rutgers.edu%5B/url%5D">www.rutgers.edu</a>
Smith College (Massachusetts) - <a href="http://www.smith.edu%5B/url%5D">www.smith.edu</a>
*Stanford University (California) - <a href="http://www.stanford.edu%5B/url%5D">www.stanford.edu</a>
University of California/Berkeley (California) - <a href="http://www.berkeley.edu%5B/url%5D">www.berkeley.edu</a>
University of Massachusetts/Amherst (Massachusetts) - <a href="http://www.umass.edu%5B/url%5D">www.umass.edu</a>
University of the Redlands (California) - <a href="http://www.redlands.edu%5B/url%5D">www.redlands.edu</a>
University of Southern California (California) - <a href="http://www.usc.edu%5B/url%5D">www.usc.edu</a>
Ursinus College (Pennsylvania) - <a href="http://www.ursinus.edu%5B/url%5D">www.ursinus.edu</a>
Vanderbilt Univ (Nashville Tennessee) - <a href="http://www.vanderbilt.edu%5B/url%5D">www.vanderbilt.edu</a>
Vassar College (New York) - <a href="http://www.vassar.edu%5B/url%5D">www.vassar.edu</a>
Williams College (Williamstown Mass) - <a href="http://www.williams.edu%5B/url%5D">www.williams.edu</a>
Xavier University (Louisiana) - <a href="http://www.xula.edu%5B/url%5D">www.xula.edu</a></p>
<p>thanks for the info- I guess that although I advise many students who are thinking of a HBCU school, being several states away from most of them is a disadvantage.
Some of the students are very interested in attending a HBCU school, but having attended integrated schools all their lives are hesitant- the info on th eexchange programs is very helpful thank you.</p>