A timely study on parental honesty and morality in college admissions

Parents Forum
41

As someone stated above. I couldn’t help with my HS senior’s homework if I wanted to. It’s been 30 years since I’ve taken a math class and I got a C in calc in college. He took the ACT himself and earned that score. He is the one pulling in all A’s in HS. He’s doing his due diligence for getting into college. However, kids these days are so crazy busy. My son is at school from 7am until 4pm and then often goes to work until 9 or 10pm from there. He’s involved in several extra curriculars and currently trying to wrap up his Eagle rank at the same time as filling out applications to schools. It’s a lot, and nothing like it was when I was his age. Plus, since I’m committed to paying his way through undergrad and college is so insanely expensive today, those scholarship apps are just as important to me if not more so, than they are to him.

So yeah, in all the free time I have sitting around watching Netflix in the evenings while he’s doing homework or flipping burgers at McDonald’s after 9 hours at school, I will research and compile information about schools and scholarships. I remind him of deadlines and will sit nearby while he fills out apps to bounce off ideas and then I will go through and edit for grammar and explain why I did what I did. Left to his own he tends to just treat apps the same as he does homework, which is to include the minimal amount of information required to answer the question.

42

I used to hear that admissions counselors would be able to tell if a student wrote their essay or someone else. Not sure if that’s the case, though. I sure hope it is. It’s a crazy and overwhelming process, so I’m sure lots end up in the trap of helping their kids too much. Until recently, my DS20 hadn’t quite gotten on board with this process himself. I’m so happy to say that after our most recent college visit a week or two ago, he has started to own it and jump into applications and creating a good timeline for himself. It’s SUCH a relief! My biggest input has been spending time on here really just for my OWN research since he is our oldest. But, MAN, until they dive in and take ownership, I can see why some parents do too much. I’ve never even SEEN the Common App and he won’t let us read his essays yet. He wasn’t happy with his first round of his personal statement and because he’s now invested in this process, he completely re-did it and is much happier with it. And we STILL haven’t gotten to read it - ha!

I totally agree that if they don’t learn the time management and prioritization skills now, there is little chance they will in the future. My DS has a 20 hour/week internship right now, along with another PT job working about 8-10 hours per weekend, (as well as mostly AP classes) so I told him these next couple months may be hell, but it will hopefully pay off and conribute to the direction his future will take! Again, I’m just so thankful he has become more invested as of late because that’s really not something you can teach or instill in them. It has to come from them.

Being involved as a parent is a fine line, though. I can see how some get sucked into the trap.

43

“Your signature on the Common Application also certifies that the information on this Member Page is your own work, factually true and honestly presented. Thank you!”

And then the student signs.

From the Common App.

The big question is at what point is it not your own work? If a student fills out the entire Common app And has written extra essays to fit some schools better than others, is it a breach of CA rules to ask parent to sign that student’s name and send CA as is to a school because said student cannot get access to Wifi and. (highly unlike situation, admittedly). Or say, the student has a change of heart and during a last minute scramble of events wants to tell parent to go on ahead and send JHU the app—parent having to pay the fees, and swap out an essay to be more relevant in that student was wavering between that and a totally different school?

Or should the parent not be typing in any of the generic info at all?

It gets to be an exercise in ethics and morals. I’ve read College AOs superciliously bragging about catching a parent signing own mane to the Common app or swearing they can tell the whomp of a middle aged Wall Street exec’s writing style vs a teen’s but the fact of the matter is do not catch those who have a lot of parental and professional help. The category of students I know who have gotten into an overwhelmingly large number of highly selective schools are the ones I positively know are getting the most help.

These kids also are the ones, as a group, doing absolutely the best in terms of career and lifestyles Not even close to those who did their own stuff. Life is not fair that way.

44

I don’t understand the huge problem with a parent typing in the generic info on the Common App. I never did because my kids’ schools had them do it as part of their college essay / common app workshop class (which is an advantage itself.) But what’s the big deal if a parent fills out the address/parent educational history/family info sections? Mine had to have my help on that anyway since they had no idea when I graduated from college. They were annoyingly aghast at how long ago it was.

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I think people are drawing bright ethical lines where none exists. I don’t see much practical difference between a parent/consultant writing an essay vs coming up with a topic and making multiple rounds of substantive edits. The former might be counterproductive if it sounds too adult.

46

The AOs know that many of the best essays are being ghostwritten by consultants and turn a blind eye to it. Ditto for the fact that many ECs are “managed” by parents and consultants. The schools don’t want to change the system - it’s perfectly comfy where they are sitting.

47

Many essays are off topic. The impact is lost. No matter who wrote it. No matter how much editing.

I believe activities are activities, if you experience them. Does it matter that the particular community service was MY idea? Especially, since they each started in 6th grade. Or matter more that, once started, they took off like wildfires, on their own, have a solid range of differnt hands-on experiences? (And continued in college.)

We aren’t talking about tiger parenting or stage managing. This isn’t about laying guilt on, in fine layers (who reworded a sentence.) It’s about parents or consultants who take over the whole freaking job.

And while some think an adult has some mastery, if they don’t understand the point, what impresses a college, etc, etc, it can be next to no help to have this over-involvement.

48

Whether a parent or someone else is “cheating” in terms of what kind of help s/he gives to the student’s college application is a different question from whether such help is actually effective.

Probably few notice if the “cheating” ends up being ineffective. But those cases where the “cheating” is effective are the ones that people care about.

49

Colleges market themselves to potential students with glossy mailings and game for positions in rankings. Students market themselves to colleges with packaged activities and stories (real, or embellished, or worse) with help from parents and/or consultants, hoping to grab the attention of AOs in that 15-min time span. It seems like college application/admission is treated like a business. But what’s that got to do with education? We should learn a thing or two by looking at Oxbridge across the pond to see how they have managed to remain at the top of the game even though the sun was set on the empire long ago.

50

Is this another statement without attribution that should be painfully obvious to everyone from having read all the Harvard lawsuit data, or is it merely one of those “facts” that you like to bandy about without a source?

51

True. But I think CC tends to get rattled and assume any consultant or parent knows the formula and the deck is stacked against honest kids. I hesitate to say it, but the crafted parts of most apps aren’t as perfect as everyone thinks. That doesn’t mean the bar gets lowered, but does explain a little bit about rejections.

1 Like
52

From a former consultant, cited upthread:

https://thecriticalreader.com/biggest-lie-college-admissions/

I mean, some common sense is needed here. For wealthy people, extensive essay coaching is becoming *de rigeur/i. It’s not hard to look around and see the size and scope of the business, and see the eye-popping fees that are being paid, some of which for a single student approach what an AO makes in a year. Just what do AOs think is being paid for here?

53

Lol, you aware how many consultants have zero experience in admissions at a college? So how much do they really know about how a typical essay sounds, other than their clients’? Even on CC, look at how many posters respond to essay questions based on whether they think a topic is interesting, without the slightest vetting past that.

Adcoms are aware. What do you expect them to do. Or: what DO you think they do now?

Don’t forget, contrary to what many on CC think, reviewing is more than stats, awards, some shiny ECs and the essay.

54

Again, I think the point of this thread is the morality of over-relying or adults who play too prominent a role in actually creating the app and supps. Not to point fingers at adcoms. Not to assume there’s some fab advantage in hiring a consultant to do so.

The best of them truly help match a kid, give pointers, suggest improvements in ECs, are realistic. Others are less ethical. (No, you can not promise a tippy top admit.) And out there, are also plenty of mentors/volunteers, doing the same for no cost. Some national programs, some regional, and some more location specific.

Nothing says a consultant alone assures an “in.”

55

Well there’s this…

Harvard (and Bowdoin) adcoms were fooled by a teenager with a 1200 SAT score who plagiarized his essays and faked his transcripts and recommendations. But you’re saying they can’t be outsmarted by the best, most highly paid consultants?

Fantastic story about Adam Wheeler, I am assuming well-known to everyone on here but worth reading again: http://archive.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2010/05/18/ex_harvard_student_accused_of_living_a_lie/

56

You’re citing one kid. One story that got national attention. Easy to find via google, lol. Is that enough to assume how admissions works, how adcoms read and what they read for? (I hope you don’t say yes.)

There are ways to spot a too-polished essay. Anyone here coud read an entire app and spot discrepancies. That doesn’t make anything infallible.

But the first point, agruably the most important point, is understanding what an individual target looks for. Dad, at the laptop, generally doesn’t. It’s not that hard to figure out (people just don’t go for it) and plenty of bright kids, when clued in, do get it. (The H lawsuit details are far from a complete picture.)

57

There was a good NPR broadcast this morning on college admissions…and the advantages of getting a better education, tutoring, test prep, etc. I’m betting it’s a podcast that someone can find.

58

Part of the problem is timing. It is more prudent, from a time management perspective, to work on applications during the summer (for many kids). Once school starts, these kids are busy – many with AP classes, a fall sport, EC’s and more. The problem is the CA isn’t open until August and in many cases there is no support available during the summer with school staff on vacation (ie, when Naviance isn’t working, requesting recommendations, etc). So everything is in full force in the fall when students are swamped. And for schools starting in September, they are already behind those that have been in school for a month.

Plus, it is not the students’ fault that there are several systems to navigate: Naviance, Common App, Coalition, colleges’ own apps, FAFSA, CSS. ETC. Then there’s varying deadlines, EA, SCEA, ED, RD, Priority, ETC, then there’s ACT, SAT (most are not just sitting for the exams once due to “superscoring” (not an option in our day)., different numbers and types of recommendations, varying supplemental essay or “extra questions” ETC!

Doing all this and managing multiple applications is complex, even for the most organized people. IMO, this all needs to be better organized from the collegiate end…along with ONE system for submission of applications, and some limit on number of applications. So yeah, some help organizing all this is necessary so kids can focus on learning, schoolwork, testing, EC’s, and maybe even enjoying their senior year.

I don’t support the consultants taking over the process – but I do think some parental help is fine – I’ve heard a few missed deadline stories from “independent kids” who did everything alone and misinterpreted something.

59

^The system you just described sounds broken, doesn’t it?

60

As long as college costs what it does and continues to increase, I can’t support a limit on the number of apps. That’s not fair to those who need merit or to compare financial aid offers on top of worrying about getting accepted.