A word about Pre-meds and GPA.

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Even more GPA posts are coming. They are like kudzu to us old southern folk. The invasive vine that takes over everything. ;) </p>

<p>Maybe this thread can bring some thought and hopefully understanding to the pre-meds. </p>

<p>Two GPA's are meaningful to AMCAS. Overall and BCMP (Bio, Chem, Math, and Physics only). (There's a third. AO, "all other than BCMP". Doesn't get talked about or reported much.) How your college figures GPA means nothing. All GPA's are standardized using AMCAS rules which you will find on their website. AMCAS gives no differential for A+'s. AMCAS use's 4.0. 3.7, 3.3..... 9 (In 2010, TMDSAS ddn't use plus or minus although they might have changed since. ) They don't care how your schools does it. There is no grade replacement for MD schools (AMCAS or TMDSAS). Your school does? Too bad. Took it during high school for a college grade? It counts. Got to send it in. </p>

<p>Let's use 120 semester hours as total college hours. 120 x 4.0 = 480 "quality points". Let's say 3.7 is the goal AMCAS GPA. **You have 36 quality points to play with during your entire college career<a href="again,%20using%20120%20as%20your" title="entire college career">/b</a> to get that 3.7 that you have decided is your goal. A C in a 4 hour Math class? You just ate 8 quality points of your total 36. Your margin of error just shrunk by over 20%. </p>

<p>Now for the really bad news.........no matter what major, you won't have 120 hours to dilute BCMP grades. Depending on your major/course selection that number could be a third of that. Which makes the total number of quality points a third of what they were. Which makes the number of points you can lose and still get a 3.7 a third of what they were. And you still lost 8 of that now much smaller number. Do the math. </p>

<p>So, for non-bio, non-chem, non-physics or non-math majors, when you make a C in a BCMP course, it is much different than when a B,C,M,P major makes a C in that same course. They can and will dilute it. And they can take upper-level courses that show mastery at a higher level. You don't have as many of those options.</p>

<p>And, yeah. I get that it sucks. I get that it takes some of the joy out of learning. I get that this concentration on making great grades impacts your college lifestyle. I get that it impacts course and professor selection. I get that it gives pre-meds a bad name. But, it is the game. Chose to play and ya better know the rules. Or chose not to play. Rail against the machine all ya want. But if a want to go to med school, do the work. And if after taking advantage of all aids your school has you find you can't do the work , make the grades and still have a balanced life (social, spiritual, physical)...well, you need to re-think your career goals. Med school just may not be for you. </p>

<p>Start fast. Find the "pace". Then adjust.</p>

2

<p>So, for non-bio, non-chem, non-physics or non-math majors, when you make a C in a BCMP course, it is much different than when a B,C,M,P major makes a C in that same course. They can and will dilute it. And they can take upper-level courses that show mastery at a higher level. You don’t have as many of those options.</p>

<p>very true…</p>

<p>The saving grace might be is if you come in with some AP credits (like History, foreign language, etc), then you may have space in your schedule to take some extra BCMP classes to dilute a B or C.</p>

3

<p>Apparently proof-reading is one of my skills that are rapidly fading. The random numeral 9 is where I intended to hit the parentheses, and the word “chose” should be “choose”. I can spell little words. I just can’t type or see for :eek:. Sorry.</p>

4

<p>Overall good post, I would add that there is one more level of nuance to the game which is that you can never acknowledge you are playing it. Your application, including your transcript, will tell a story about you, and that story, under no circumstance, can be “I want to go to med school and therefore, I did X, Y and Z.” Fortunately, you can say the converse “I did X, Y, and Z, and therefore, I want to go to med school,” but there should be a reason you took every class. It’s ok to say “it looked interesting” but make sure there’s a follow up. Why does it interest you?</p>

<p>Everyone comes on here with the end goal and wants to know how to get there. It’s important to try and approach it the other way: what do you want to learn and what about those desires makes you suited for the role of a physician? This is how the upper echelon of schools decides whom to admit among the many, many academically qualified applicants they get.</p>

5

<p>Unfortunately, like kudzu, the pre med forum will never get rid of the “help, I blew it” posts. </p>

<p>You have written some great, informative posts over the past few days Curm, but if you want the youngins to read them, maybe spice up your thread titles. Maybe something like “FREE LAP DANCES” or “OPEN BAR” might draw more attention to your words of wisdom. ;)</p>

<p>Just consider it CC’s version of bait and switch.</p>

6

<p>^^^ I think I just choked on my tongue. Good thing I wasn’t drinking my iced tea (or any other beverage) when I read you post, GAMom. Otherwise, you’d owe me a new laptop…</p>

7

<p>I nearly sheeted my pants when I read lap dance</p>

8

<p>Do you think Bioengineering classes would count towards the BCMP GPA? BioE is pretty much a combination of all four of these fields of study.</p>

9

<p>AMCAS says no.</p>

<p>Unless a course is designated as Biology, Chemistry, Math or Physics, it does not count in the BCMP GPA.</p>

<p>Instructions are here:</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/students/download/181694/data/amcas_course_classification_guide.pdf[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/students/download/181694/data/amcas_course_classification_guide.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

10

<p>I think a clutch thing for the (hopeful) premed to recognize is that you can’t treat college (classes, experience, whatever) as a means to an end (med school). If you’re going to be successful in med school, you have to be motivated to learn because you like learning–not because you’ll be rewarded with a good grade (keep in mind, many schools are pass/fail!). After all, medicine is such a rapidly evolving field that there will always be something new for you to learn in order to continue delivering the best care to your patients (and the best consults to your colleagues, and the most effective research, etc).</p>

<p>I was giving tours to alumni during homecoming weekend. One of the docs (a general surgeon) graduated med school in '54. That’s >30yrs before I was born! I asked him what it’s been like to watch his field evolve before his eyes–from a time when everything was done through a huge midline incision with a large operative field, to a time when most things are done laparoscopically or robotically, and he said that has been one of the most rewarding aspects of his career. When I asked him how he possibly kept up with it, he remarked that he loves learning and makes it a point to learn one new thing (or read one new article) every single day–and he’s done this throughout his entire career. The guy’s in his 80s and still practicing!</p>

<p>Of course, there are a ton of hoops to jump through. I get that–heck I’ve jumped through quite a few of them (eg physics…). But the thing is, if all you’re doing is gaming the system so you can get a high GPA so you can get to med school, you’ve missed the point. And having missed that point, med school’s going to be a heckuva lot harder than it needs to be (and trust me, it’s tough enough as it is!)</p>

11

<p>Thank you, WayOutWestMom. That link helps a lot, although it is surprising to me that an Astronomy class would hold more weight than a Kinesiology class.</p>

<p>And kristin, that’s why I believe developing study skills is just as important as actually doing the work early on in college or during high school. With a great study skills and time management, you can get excellent grades and actually enjoy learning the material.</p>

12

<p>^^Astronomy has to be a real astronomy class (you know with math and everything), not astronomy for poets/nonscientists.</p>

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<p>The strategy of getting A in every single class (including Paper Making, singing…whatever) will work. Another goal is to take no summer classes. If you do these 2 things, it will free you from so many questions/worries, you will be in much better position to focus on MCAT. This would be my advice.</p>

14

<p>Why no summer classes? If the student takes them at their university, aren’t they counted the same?</p>

15

<ol>
<li><p>Often the class is rushed and condensed. </p></li>
<li><p>Med schools would like to see you take courses within the context of a full courseload. Taking orgo over the summer is different from taking orgo when you have 4 other courses.</p></li>
<li><p>There is some thought that students who have to take summer courses are not as strong as normal students. Not sure if that is true or not.</p></li>
</ol>

16

<p>For GPA purposes they’re counted the same, but sometimes in the eyes of the adcomm, they’re not. </p>

<p>Key pre-reqs (and OChem I’m looking at you here…) should not be taken during the summer if you can possibly avoid it. Even at your home uni. </p>

<p>Why? Because summer classes will not necessarily have the same grading scale/quality of competition or even cover all of the same material as a regular term class, due to time constraints. And adcomms know that.</p>

<p>But GE credits, math and the new social science requirements–I see no reason why it wouldn’t be OK to take during the summer.</p>

17

<p>So if someone did biology or chemistry for a major, their BCMP GPA would include every class they have taken in that their major?</p>

<p>So a sciences major can have a BCMP GPA for 60-70 credits while someone doing bioengineering may only have BCMP GPA for 20-30 credits (whatever is the minimum needed?)?</p>

18

<p>Yes. The same is true for any non-science major. Fair or not, AMCAS doesn’t count engineering classes as part of the BCMP.</p>

<p>And the minimum number of required sciences is probably closer to to 32-35 than 20.</p>

19

<p>@texaspg,

</p>

<p>It can go even higher if the student is a science major and has significant AP credits. I will have around 100 credits in BCMP courses at the end of my 4 years. This fall, I’m registered for something called Physical Organic Chemistry(a grad course). Sounds like fun :)</p>

20

<p>I have a question, when you say
“Took it during high school for a college grade? It counts. Got to send it in.”
Does that mean like if i get a C in a AP Chem/AP Physics / AP Bio class that i would have to send that it even if i chose not to skip say biology 101??</p>