A Word of Caution to OOS Applicants

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - GENERAL
1

TL; DR–If you are not a California resident, apply to the UC system with caution. Some of the UC schools have been nigh-impossible to be accepted to in my high school. My best recommendation is to only apply to Berkeley, LA, and San Diego. Don’t waste your money and time.

To preface this, here are some details about me.

-Asian, female
-Competitive public high school on east coast
-No class rank
-Weighted GPA: 4.145/5.0
-Unweighted GPA: 3.726/4.0
-1560 SAT, 770 Reading and Writing, 790 Math
-Accepted to multiple Big 10 and northeast region schools, some with Honors program and scholarships. Most of these schools have higher rankings than some UC schools.

I applied to UCSD, UCI, UCD, and UCSB, all in computer science (CS), with computer engineering (CE) as a second choice. I was denied from every one except UCSD, who did not admit me directly to their CS or CE programs. I was admitted as undecided. This is not an uncommon occurrence. According to my school’s Naviance data,

-Only 2/9 applicants were accepted last year to UCSB, neither attended, 4/10 accepted in 2017, one attended, 1/3 in 2016, did not attend.
-None of the 6 applicants last year or the 5 applicants the year before were accepted to UCI. The last admit was in 2016, out of 4 people, and they did not attend.
-UCD has more: 2/4 in 2018, 3/7 in 2017, and 3/10 in 2016. None enrolled.
-UCSD has the most: 5/16 in 2018, with one enrolled, 5/13 in 2017, with one enrolled, 3/9 in 2016, with two enrolled.
-The applicants to all of these schools are not at all bad–the average SAT score across the board is in the mid-1400’s to low-1500’s range, and average weighted GPA is from 4.05-4.20.

I don’t know what programs these people applied to, nor what programs they may have been admitted to. This year, aside from one person who was accepted to UC Berkeley, I have yet to hear of any other UC acceptances through the grape vine.

While it’s known that public school systems are significantly more stringent on OOS applicants, and UC especially so, I find it rather odd that nearly every UC would be so selective, especially UCI, UCD, and UCSB being way more selective over UCSD. If anything, I was expecting UCSD to waitlist or deny me and to be accepted to the other three. My choice of major (and alternative major), my demographic, the lack of recommendations and a formal personal statement, and/or poor enrollment from my high school may play a part in their selectivity, but I’m not sure if it would that much.

Given this information, I recommend any OOS student to apply to UC schools with caution. Applying to Berkeley, LA, and SD are worth it, but any other school is not, unless there is a very pressing reason to (athletics, etc.) or you have insanely high numbers. Applications take hours of time to complete, and fees are costly and add up quickly. Don’t throw away your money and time.

If anyone has any input, please comment below. I’m curious to know if this is the case with other people or not.

2

First I will address the admit policies of the UC’s listed. UCSB and UCD admit into the major directly if you are applying for CS in the Engineering school. UCSB only considers your alternate major if is a non-Engineering major. UCD does not consider your alternate major.

UCI and UCSD admits into the University first and then into the major and they only consider your alternate major if it is a non-impacted major.

UC’s also have capped admissions for OOS/International applicants so the spots are limited. You also applied to some of the most competitive majors at the UC’s. If you look at the Freshman admit stats for OOS students, the threshold is usually higher in terms of GPA and Test scores.

All applicants including OOS students should apply with caution especially to the highly competitive majors since there are no guarantees even to in-state applicants due to the high number of applicants and the competitive nature of the all the UC’s.

As a California resident and parent, I feel lucky that we have these wonderful academic institutions in our state but I would never recommend that an OOS student spend $65K+/year to attend these schools unless they have an unlimited budget or have no equally preferable university within their reach.

3

No surprise. The CS major is significantly more selective than the campuses overall, so all of these campuses were probably reaches for you with a 3.726 unweighted HS GPA (probably around 4.0 UC weighted capped).

2018 admit rates by UC weighted capped HS GPA:


Campus  4.20-   3.80-   3.40-   3.00-
        higher  4.19    3.79    3.39
UCB     37%     10%      1%      1%
UCLA    41%      9%      2%      1%
UCSD    70%     34%      7%      1%
UCI     75%     38%      7%      1%
UCSB    80%     41%      8%      1%
UCD     89%     52%     14%      3% 
UCSC    92%     70%     33%     12%
UCR     96%     84%     49%     15%
UCM     98%     95%     82%     45%

For general admission, the campuses you applied to would have been high match at best, but applying to CS probably pushes them all into reach territory.

4

Would you have attended at full pay?

5

UCB and UCLA have a median average of around 4.25 for UC GPA, while SD, I, SB and D all are around 4.16 down to 4.11. Assume that CS majors will have even higher GPAs. So a UC GPA of around 4.0 (UC GPA usually will be around .25 to .33 above the unweighted GPA) will be behind the eight-ball so to speak. For 2019, we also saw a lot of in-state CS intent people in general with really high stats get turned down by many if not all the top 6.

6

Congratulations on all of your Big 10 and northeastern school acceptances!

The UC system calculates GPA differently. Did you calculate your UC GPA? https://rogerhub.com/gpa-calculator-uc/ Based on what you wrote in your other thread, it looks like you only took one AP course prior to 12th grade. Is that correct?

UCSB, UCD and UCI are all capped at around 18% for OOS admissions. UCSD is allowed closer to 22% OOS.

7

@lkg4answers Yes, I’ve only taken AP Computer Science A before senior year. I didn’t know exactly how to calculate my UC GPA, but using the tool you gave me, my GPA for the first three years is 3.54 UW, 4.08 W, 3.88 W+C. Assuming that I did it correctly, things start to make a whole lot more sense. Thanks for the info.

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@Sybylla Not sure what you mean. Full pay for the application fee? Given the same results, no.

9

@waddleDeDeDe The UCs only use grades from the summer before 10th grade until the summer after 11th grade. They do not look at 9th grade. Can you re-calculate using those grades?

@Sybylla meant would you have chosen to attend and paid OOS tuition and fees (approx $65K/year) if you were accepted?

10

Another requirement: a-g subjects. If you don’t meet any subject requirement then you are out.

11

I thought of that as well but OP got into UCSD so must have completed a-g. It is good information for future applicants reading this thread.

12

Would you have attended at full pay? Simple enough question. UCSD with no major at full OOS pay is for giggles, right? All those kids in your numbers that did not enroll or did not attend even when admitted, this is about $. Lots of OOS kids apply without going in deep about the money, I suspect the UCs know full well how to offer OOS spots to optimize those full pay spots.

13

The admission rate for CS at UCLA (which is in the college of engineering) in fall of 2018 was 8.2%.

The average CS ACT score was 35, and the average CS SAT score was 1550. The gpa from 25th to 75th percentiles was 3.9 to 4.0 (not sure if this was unweighted or not.) So it looks as if your test scores were plenty high enough, but not your gpa.

I assume that the problem is the popularity of the CS major, the limited budget of UCs, and the difficulty of hiring enough CS professors.

14

She didn’t apply to UCLA, but yeah ultra hard to get into UCLA for CS

15

@waddleDeDeDe wrote:

I disagree with this statement above. While most know UCB, UCLA, and UCSD are top notch, UCSB, UCI, UCD, UCSC, UCR all have unique and wonderful qualities that make them appealing to lots of OSS. UCs have one application so time is not wasted. Yes, fees can add up but if you are able to pay for OSS fees and want to be in California then a few application fees will be worth it. UCSB is beautiful near the beach. UCI is a diverse campus with that Orange County/So Cal vibe, UCD has a great community with tons of school spirit, safe and lower costs, UCSC has a laid back, ocean vibe, in a sought after area with a unique climate, while UCR has a desert feel, is diverse, close community and very science oriented. University of California has a lot to offer and if you have the grades as described/calculated on their websites you can have a wonderful experience beyond what is addressed above as the three.

16

@waddleDeDeDe

You said:
" My choice of major (and alternative major), my demographic, the lack of recommendations and a formal personal statement, and/or poor enrollment from my high school may play a part in their selectivity, but I’m not sure if it would that much."

This alone is enough to get rejected at every single UC school you applied to. Even though the UC schools look at GPA and tests they take a very holistic approach. If you did not take the time to request and make sure a referral was received and submitted and your personal statement was a bit lacking on the personal side then why would they admit you over someone else with the same exact stats but better statements?
I know a lot of honors kids at my children school who know how to write a great formal statement but do not know how to write a great personal statement. Two very different things in my opinion.
I have 3 kids all 3 are highly intelligent with great stats. My two boys are extremely intelligent in math and sciences and they do well with English but it’s not a favorite to put it simply.
My daughter is absolutely amazing in regards to anything English, she is well spoken, she is able to argue any point and listen while someone debates her, then take their debate and turn it inside out. She writes eloquently and she can passionately get a point across in a short paragraph that will keep the reader interested and yearning for more to read. However, stick her in math or science and yes she will pass the class with a high grade but she will hate every minute of it.

All 3 kids took pretty much the same classes in high school, had very similar recommendations, and as I said very similar stats. All 3 kids got into very different schools. My oldest S got into 1 UC school, my middle S got into 2 UC schools neither of which he really wanted to go to due to his major, My D go into every UC she applied to except for 1 reject and 1 waitlist.

Three kids, CA resident, ELC status, 3 very different writing styles, the best personal writer received the best results.

Instead of trying to blame some outside source for being rejected maybe we need to look inside at what we may have done or did not do that directly influenced the applications. It’s not always because the colleges are only picking in state students or because one has too high of a gpa or ones school isn’t challenging enough. Sometimes maybe the school wasn’t impressed with what they read or even though one’s stats feel high (and you should be proud of your stats) but even though they feel high for the schools applied to and the degree programs applied to they were not high enough. Your stats are in the low 2% range for computer science with stats that low your essays better be outstanding in order to even have a slim chance. Take responsibility, look at the great colleges you were accepted in, and have a wonderful freshman year at the college that truly wants you there.