<p>ya, by judging the "culture" you are inherently judging the people who make up that culture. dont judge unless you want to be judged. and it definitely isnt "blind" perpetuation. I think we are all fully aware of the effects/consequences, but we still choose to drink and do drugs. i don't think its a problem at all that people drink or smoke, its the things you do (i.e. drinking and driving) that are ****ty. and at the same time, if you make those decisions while you are drunk, chances are you would make stupid decisions if you were sober anyway. blaming the effects of the drugs or alcohol is a cop-out. the only culture we are perpetuating is the culture of the majority of the world. everyone drinks, its a part of life. there are much nobler causes to devote your time to.</p>
<p>"Actually, come to think of it now, I know several science and engineering professors who smoke and i don't, for any minute, doubt their degree of maturity."</p>
<p>Maybe there's a distiction between illicit drugs. I don't know. I just guessing.</p>
<p>No, she labels drugs as anything that alters a person's perception. Even tea. Lol, actually, I know many people who drinks tea and are not immature..so I don't see the "inverse" relationship.</p>
<p>
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ya, by judging the "culture" you are inherently judging the people who make up that culture. dont judge unless you want to be judged.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No. </p>
<p>I am judging the practice of drug and alcohol consumption in our society. If one wishes to partake in that practice, then yes, they are pertinent to the argument -- however, it is the practice itself, not the individual that I am calling attention to. </p>
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I think we are all fully aware of the effects/consequences, but we still choose to drink and do drugs.
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</p>
<p>Here in lies the problem.</p>
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and at the same time, if you make those decisions while you are drunk, chances are you would make stupid decisions if you were sober anyway.
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</p>
<p>Oh, whose argument exactly are you attacking? For I do not recall ever referring to this. (Straw man :)). I only referred to the harmful repercussions of the drug trade. </p>
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if you make those decisions while you are drunk, chances are you would make stupid decisions if you were sober anyway.
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</p>
<p>It's good that you've learned to pull unsubstantiated empirical claims out of thin air. Keep up the good work!</p>
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the only culture we are perpetuating is the culture of the majority of the world. everyone drinks, its a part of life.
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</p>
<p>Ad populum. The rest of the world also lies and cheats -- so I suppose that makes lying and cheating OK?</p>
<p>
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there are much nobler causes to devote your time to.
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</p>
<p>I am a social reformer at heart. All activists have their primary issue of interest. This one just happens to be mine :) But yes, there are many other noble causes deserving our attention as well; for all the world's conflicts are intertwined in such a way that the improvement of one begets that of another.</p>
<p>Uh... sXe'ers do not have sex either, janel.</p>
<p>Also, don't drag your anti-legalization **** in here.</p>
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Also, don't drag your anti-legalization **** in here.
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</p>
<p>I never said that I was anti-legalization. ;) I am anti-drugs. I really don't care what the legislation reads at the end of the day; I just want to see drugs themselves take a hike from our lives.</p>
<p>Actually, they do have sex I think. Though not for pleasure but for procreation.</p>
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Uh... sXe'ers do not have sex either, janel.
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</p>
<p>Some actually do. ;) </p>
<p>In any case, my argument did not concern the parameters of a given label. It only concerned the recreational use of drugs and alcohol.</p>
<p>uh...Im not straight edge or anything...</p>
<p>how can you equate lieing and cheating with drugs and alcohol? drinking and doing drugs are personal choices, janel. haha you aren't a social reformer, you are an angry kid who doesn't know how to party. enjoy your utterly depressing sobriety and all of that anger. now, that is good for you.</p>
<p>Haha, in Janel's defense, I think you guys are drawing a lot of generalizations regarding straight edgers. I haven't met any but I am aware of their subculture. </p>
<p>janel, I think it's great and dandy that you are trying to clean up society. I just don't agree with your belief that people who drink or smoke lack reasoning or thinking. Of course, I'm talking about adults though and not the party crowd.</p>
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how can you equate lieing and cheating with drugs and alcohol?
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</p>
<p>You seriously misunderstood the point. I was pointing out the fallacy that you were making, ad populum, by drawing an analogous argument which one could reason to be clearly false. Go back and read.</p>
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haha you aren't a social reformer, you are an angry kid who doesn't know how to party.
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</p>
<p>Sorry, but I'm hardly an angry person. Because one becomes impassioned and adament towards a specific cause, they are then angry people? Not so. In any case, it is necessary for us to get angry, to a certain extent, in the face of injustice if there is any hope for change. </p>
<p>Stop making false assumptions into my personality when you know nothing about me. Believe me: I can be as wild, passionate, and sanguine as any drunk person -- only I choose to do it entirely on my own, internal volition.</p>
<p>ya, you sound angry. It just goes back to the point that you shouldn't judge others. Even worse than a drunk, you are pompus and self-riteous. get off your high horse, drinking is normal and plently of intelligent, mature people do it. there is no injustice in people making personal choices. seriously, go fight poverty or something that matters, because your wonderful energy is being wasted on a subject that obviously does not apply to you. be happy with yourself that you don't drink and leave it at that. it has nothing to do with you if someone else makes the choice to drink/smoke/do crack.</p>
<p>See, she is self-righteous and pompous. Exactly what I ****ing HATE about sXe people.</p>
<p>Janel you mentioned,</p>
<p>"human rights violations, class stratification, depletion of third world economies, political corruption"</p>
<p>as ethical reasons not to do drugs, I wonder do these also apply to legal recreational drugs (tobacco and caffen for example)?</p>
<p>Just an honest quetion....really. I don't know too much about this issue. I think I agree with some of what your saying.</p>
<p>Matt: I hope she doesn't buy clothes or coffee or anything electronic or shoes or anything at Wal-Mart.</p>
<p>
[quote]
go fight poverty or something that matters
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Indirectly, I am. One third of all African American males are in prison, of which most of those sentences are from selling drugs. Why do they continue to sell drugs and hurt the social mobility of their demographic anyway? Oh right -- because college kids like us keep the demand for drugs soaring, and therefore the profits from selling so temptingly high when few other opportunities exist. </p>
<p>Take it from me, I grew up in poverty. I know how the selling and presence of drugs completely debilitates a people from attaining an education and reaching higher understanding in life. Every day, teenagers just like us, except with no prospects, no money, no quality education will fall into the use of drugs or selling drugs. Only, except like the college students, they will not be pulled up by the comforts of homes and higher goals in life. Drugs and alcohol will completely consume them. So you see, there is a vicious circle between poverty and drug trade and consumption. </p>
<p>
[quote]
your wonderful energy is being wasted on a subject that obviously does not apply to you.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I hope you do relinquish your recalcitrance at some point and open your mind to this reality. For I could think of nothing more that does concern a college student, such as myself, and such as everyone on this board, than the issue of drugs and alcohol as we play such a vital and ulitimately perpetrating role in it. </p>
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[quote]
See, she is self-righteous and pompous. Exactly what I ****ing HATE about sXe people.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hey, the truth does often hurt.</p>
<p>"Matt: I hope she doesn't buy clothes or coffee or anything electronic or shoes or anything at Wal-Mart."</p>
<p>This is a good point. Many of the products we buy take advantage of labor. I suppose the question becomes, who holds the responsibility? The consumers or the suppliers?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Matt: I hope she doesn't buy clothes or coffee or anything electronic or shoes or anything at Wal-Mart.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Fallacy of two wrongs make a right. Buying drugs cannot be ethically justified by the fact that other purchases have their negative associations as well. And in the case of drugs, unlike clothes and certain foods, they are far from being necessities; we could easily give them up and be fine -- in fact, we would be better off. And yet we still do not.</p>
<p>Look, guys. I've really got to go and work on my Epistemology paper haha. Thanks for playing devil's advocate with me. Enjoyable as always :) </p>
<p><em>Shakes hands and walks away</em></p>