<p>janel,</p>
<p>I gotta admit, though. While I don't find you particularly pretentious, I find the straight edge thinking to have a certain amount of pretense involved. </p>
<p>Not that I necessarily find pretense bad, but it is definitely pretentious to a degree.</p>
<p>Janel: I did not attempt to have a civil debate with you, as you have shown yourself to not be interested in one.</p>
<p>UCLAri: Eliminate most of the government's programs.</p>
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Janel: I did not attempt to have a civil debate with you, as you have shown yourself to not be interested in one.
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<p>neverborn, sorry if I came off as "pretentious" at any point. I was simply trying to make a case for something that I strongly believe in, and that I know most do not. Because of I am usually so alone on this view amongst my peers, I get labelled as pretentious and pompous for doing the same thing any activist wishes to do: fight for justice as they understand it to be. And yeah, do it eloquently which requires (gasp!) big words. </p>
<p>Disagree with me all you like. But if anyone is "angry," I would be inclined to see them as the barrage of individuals that are laying cuss words and false accusations on me.</p>
<p>janel,</p>
<p>Being eloquent doesn't require big words. Look at a lot of Twain's works. Eloquence like most of us could never dream of, yet rarely bogged down with the big words so many young college students think are oh-so-necessary.</p>
<p>By the way, it is possible to fight for the justice that one wants without pretense. Many younger people misunderstand the notion of "passion" to mean, "Tell everyone about my beliefs."</p>
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Being eloquent doesn't require big words. Look at a lot of Twain's works. Eloquence like most of us could never dream of, yet rarely bogged down with the big words so many young college students think are oh-so-necessary.
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<p>I agree. But I was only gently mocking the notion that one who uses "big words" is therefore pretentious and deserving of being torn-down.</p>
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By the way, it is possible to fight for the justice that one wants without pretense. Many younger people misunderstand the notion of "passion" to mean, "Tell everyone about my beliefs."
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<p>Ohhh, younger kids like me, huh? Oh, UCLAri, would that not be a hint of pretentiousness in your voice? <em>wink wink</em> In any case, all of activism is essentially telling the world about one's beliefs. Many just get it wrong. Some get it right.</p>
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I agree. But I was only gently mocking the notion that one who uses "big words" is therefore pretentious and deserving of being torn-down.
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<p>Pretense is an awfully fickle thing. One extra big word can make the perfect paragraph become a "den of scum and pretensery."</p>
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Ohhh, younger kids like me, huh? Oh, UCLAri, would that not be a hint of pretentiousness in your voice? <em>wink wink</em>
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<p>Being part of a representative group and pointing out the faults of said group isn't necessarily pretentious in itself. It would be pretentious if I had said, "I don't, but you do," when I clearly do. It's fairly clear that many younger people are more passionate about informing everyone about what they believe and why. Stating this is not ostentatious. </p>
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In any case, all of activism is essentially telling the world about one's beliefs.
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<p>There's a difference between the person who goes to McDonald's and gets in their faces to tell them about how the cow was tortured and murdered, and the person who gets involved in the legislative process and tries to pass laws to change the status quo.</p>
<p>One is obnoxious, and the other is an effective use of the democratic process.</p>
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There's a difference between the person who goes to McDonald's and gets in their faces to tell them about how the cow was tortured and murdered and the person who gets involved in the legislative process and trying to pass laws to change the status quo.</p>
<p>One is obnoxious, and the other is and effective use of the democratic process.
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<p>Not really...</p>
<p>Protesting, however "obnoxious" and impassioned it becomes, has its purpose as well. It is the raw expression of the voice underlying the passage of the legislation; the emotional response that through time and numbers, creates a rule for all of society to follow and obey. </p>
<p>Also, don't forget that many who utilize grass-roots methods of getting their views heard do so because they were not born into the privilege, or contain the know-how to manipulate the government. Nevertheless, they have an equally strong right to be considered.</p>
<p>janel: I have no problem with the sXe people who say "No thanks, I don't drink" or "I'll pass, thanks anyway" or "Nah, I don't smoke."</p>
<p>It's the people that try to get in my face about what I do that makes me angry.</p>
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It's the people that try to get in my face about what I do that makes me angry.
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<p>Once again, I was never getting in anyone's face. I was getting in the face of the practice of drug and alcohol consumption. Hey, I believe that we were the first to dance together at the "Rejection Dance Party," neverborn; which is what we're all ultimately doing with each other. Hence why I never attack the person, but the idea or practice.</p>
<p>Go to bed. The end.</p>
<p>We certainly were, janel89.</p>
<p>If someone offers you a beer, do you calmly refuse? That is my question. I dislike the people who get up in arms about stuff like that, whether they're veg*n, sXe, or whatever cause.</p>
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If someone offers you a beer, do you calmly refuse?
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<p>Well, I usually stay away from situations where I am likely to be offered a beer. In the cases where I am, yes, I refuse with much indifference. I save the soapbox time for when I have a keyboard in front of me. ;)</p>
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Protesting, however "obnoxious" and impassioned it becomes, has its purpose as well. It is the raw expression of the voice underlying the passage of the legislation; the emotional response that through time and numbers, creates a rule for all of society to follow and obey.
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<p>There's a difference between protesting and throwing red paint on people. </p>
<p>The use of "obey" bothers me here. It says that everyone should follow this belief. To me, that's the very opposite of what a pluralist society should be about. I suppose one of my biggest problems with what you're proposing is the fact that it makes it impossible for so many people to live their lives how they please. Why shouldn't a Jew be allowed to drink wine at Passover? Why shouldn't a Japanese be allowed their tea? Why shouldn't an Indian be allowed their hookah?</p>
<p>To me, "obey" conjures up images of an Orwellian nightmare, where society decides what is best for the individual, no matter that person's preferences.</p>
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Also, don't forget that many who utilize grass-roots methods of getting their views heard do so because they were not born into the privilege, or contain the know-how to manipulate the government. Nevertheless, they have an equally strong right to be considered.
janel89 is online now
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<p>Being born into privilege? Sorry, but what privilege is necessary in order to go down to your local representative's office and lobby an LC or LA for five minutes? NONE. What privilege is necessary in order to write letters? Get involved with a lobbyist organization? Get involved with a PAC that shares your views?</p>
<p>NONE.</p>
<p>And I don't consider self-induced ignorance an excuse to not get your voice heard in effective ways.</p>