<p>Hello. I'm a high school to-be senior (Class of 2015)</p>
<p>I have questions about going into med schools.
My counselor and college adviser at school said if I wanted to get into a good med school after undergrad studies, it is better that I DO NOT take pre-med for undergrad major, and for example Engineering would be a good major to study instead, because med schools would want students with more open view/ knowledge instead of just focusing on medical studies for all of undegrad+grad studies.
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But I also heard on CC that you must have a high pre-med GPA in order to get into a good med school plus a quality research.</p>
<p>Can I hear stories from people who have gone/ is attending medical schools?
I would of course appreciate any information from non-med students too! :D</p>
<p>Pre med isn’t a major; it’s an intention. Except at Penn State, there is no such thing as a “pre med major”.</p>
<p>Many pre-med major in biology, biochem or chemistry since those majors have the greatest overlap with medical school pre-requisites. </p>
<p>Medical school really don’t care what your undergrad major is; they only care that your science GPA (all bio, chem, math & physics classes) is high, your all-inclusive GPA is high and that you’ve done well on the MCAT.</p>
<p>D1’s med school classmates have majors ranging from agriculture to business to computer science to English literature to electrical engineering to mathematics to music performance to psychology to physics to religion to Spanish to women’s studies to zoology. </p>
<p>The choice of a major is an personal and individual decision. Pick something you like studying because you are more likely to do well in it.</p>
<p>@WayOutWestMom Thank you for your reply!
I did not know that Pre-med was an intention, so that really helped me!
Can I ask you a couple of questions?
Are bio, chem, physics, and math a core-requirement in college? Or is it some pre-req for med school?
If someone majored in Spanish, does that mean he has taken science/math classes (all bio, chem, physics, math) as minor classes?</p>
<p>I’m sorry for these silly questions. I’m becoming confused with all the information in my mind.
Thank you! </p>
<p>2 semesters of “college level mathematics” (Specific math requirements vary by school. Some med schools require calc 1; some require stats; some require both; some require other math classes. Statistics is included on the MCAT.)</p>
<p>2 semester of English or other “writing intensive” classes </p>
<p>Some medical schools require the 2 classes below and material from the courses below will be asked on the MCAT: </p>
<p>And to make it even more confusing, some medical schools have other required courses. Courses like : genetics, anatomy, physiology, ethics, upper level humanities, upper level social sciences and calc 2. When you get closer to applying to medical school, you will need to look at the requirements of the specific schools you plan to apply to.</p>
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<p>A Spanish major who is applying to med school will have completed the required math, chem, bio, physics, etc listed above. Otherwise medical schools wouldn’t even consider her/him for admission. </p>
<p>Generally, these classes wouldn’t taken as a minor. A minor is 5-6 classes taken in the same department. (Five bio classes, or five math classes.) Each school will have specific requirements for completing a minor. IOW, the minor dept will have a list of required and elective classes a student needs to take to complete a minor. A minor just isn’t a set of random classes.</p>
<p>And it’s good to ask questions! It’s the only way to get answers.</p>
<p>@WayOutWestMom
I apologize for the super late reply.Thank you so much for answering all of my questions with a lot of details that I really really appreciate! :x
So I am assuming it wouldn’t be major issue as to where I go for undergrad college as long as they have all the science/math field classes that would be required by the specific medical school.</p>
<p>-Do med/pharmacy schools care so much about prestige of the undergrad schools students are from? </p>
<p>And also, I don’t know if this is specific to “med school topic”, but I was looking at pharmacy and also “pharmacology” and I found out that what I really want to do is something like in pharmacology with a little more research/lab opportunities than pharmacy (I hope I’m right with that…).</p>
<p>-Would something like pharmacology or toxicology or epidemiology also be pursued in med schools?
I found that there are a lot less schools that offers pharmacology/toxicology/epidemiology compared to pharmacy, and I was wondering if these majors were new or really intense courses, or whether not many students decide to major in them for what ever reasons.</p>
<p>-If the school that I happen to go for undergrad has pharmacy (or epidemiology or toxicology or pharmacology), then I could just continue on at that school?</p>
<p>-In addition to the above question, would you mind giving me an answer to this long question?
Can pharmacy only be pursued in grad schools? And have pre-pharmacy intention in undergrad?
If someone didn’t have pre-pharmacy intention in undergrad and decide that they want to go in to pharmacy, are they just going to take all the required cores for med school from there?</p>
<p>@WayOutWestMom I know this is TONS of questions AGAIN, so I will be happy if you could just answer any of them. </p>
<p>And of course, I appreciate answers/advice from ANYONE!!
Any advice for science majors, science careers, med schools, and pros and cons of those would be awesome too!
Thank you in advance!</p>
<p>The general consensus is no, medical and pharmacy schools do not care where you went to undergrad. It’s about ten thousand times more important what you’ve accomplished at your undergrad than where you went. </p>
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<p>You could do a fellowship or a PhD in any of those fields after completing a MD; however most individuals working in pharmacology, epidemiology or toxicology pursue their field thru a PhD rather than a MD. </p>
<p>Pharmacology is graduate program (PhD, or a Pharm D+ post grad fellowship). Individual interested in pursuing pharmacology as a career are recommended to major in chemistry, biochemistry, neuroscience (if you want to do neuropharmacology), chemical engineering, microbiology or something similar.</p>
<p>Toxicology is either a graduate degree program (MS or PhD), or a post-doctoral fellowship area of specialization (which means you do 1-2 years additional study after completing a MD, DVM, or PharmD). I actually work at a biomedical research lab that specializes in toxicology. There are all sorts of subfields of toxicology that are highly specialized.</p>
<p>To become a toxicologist, individuals typically major in biology, microbiology, chemistry, biochemistry, biophysics or something similar.</p>
<p>Epidemiology is a graduate degree (MS, MPH or PhD). Epidemiology uses statistical methods to track the heatlh and disease patterns in large groups of people. It’s very analytical and requires a excellent math background. Applied math, computer or information science, and statistics are often recommended majors for those interested in pursuing epidemiology.</p>
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<p>That’s because if you really want to work in any of these areas you really need a graduate degree. An undergrad degree in any of these fields will get you a job as low level lab tech without much/any chance for advancement. You can get the same sort of job with a plain vanilla bio, chem, biochem degree. (We hire toxicology lab techs with bio degrees all the time.)</p>
<p>You’ll have many more options regarding your future if you major in something less specialized. That way as you get to be junior/senior in college, then you can decide what you want to do and whether or not you whether or not you want to pursue a higher degree. </p>
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<p>Sure, but your advisors at the university will often advise you to go elsewhere for your graduate training. (Academic institutions in general like to see their grads go elsewhere to prevent academic inbreeding. Every school, every dept has its strengths and weaknesses and they want their students to get a fuller, more rounded exposure/training in the field.)</p>
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<p>Yes. To get a license to practice as a pharmacist, you must complete a PharmD (Doctor of Pharmacy). There are some combined BA/PharmD programs that will allow you to complete both degrees in 6 or 7 years.</p>
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<p>Just like med school, pharm school has a strict set of pre-reqs, a standardized entrance exam (PCAT) and expectations for EC activities like shadowing a pharmacist and volunteering at a pharmacy.</p>
<p>You don’t need to have a pre-pharm intention, but you do need to fulfill admission requirements.</p>
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<p>Yes and no. </p>
<p>Yes, you just need to complete the pre-reqs and take the PCAT to apply for pharmacy school.</p>
<p>And no, the pre-reqs for pharmacy school are not the same as pre-reqs for medical school. They’re slightly different.</p>
<p>Thank you, thank you, thank you so much!!!
You have opened up a new field of interest in me, and I love so far what I’m researching about future careers </p>
<p>Since you said you work in a biomedical research lab with toxicology, can I hear some of your experience there?
Pros and cons, anything about the job field that you’ve found out after entering it, how hard it is to find a job in your field, and also any personal likes/dislikes?</p>
<p>My parents have been telling me to thinking about that job in the future, what would happen in 10-20 years from now and if the advancements of computer/technologies could take away jobs from humans.</p>
<p>Do you have any concerns about the job field after being there? (and about pharmacology/epidemiology if you are also close to that area). </p>
<p>I just found out that med school and pharmacy school are pretty different. So would pharmacology/toxicology/epidemiology and fields like those be studied at med school or pharmacy school?
Please excuse me for my ignorance. </p>
<p>So from what you have told me, would:
majoring in one of these (bio/chem/neuroscience/biochem/microbio/etc) field with possibly a math minor with pre-pharmacy/pre-med intention while completing med/pharmacy school requirements
and then going to grad school for my specific field
would be a good idea to start with?</p>
<p>I am not a toxicologist or any other kind of professional scientist. I’m actually a biomedical research librarian. (My husband is the scientist in the family, but he’s a physicist. Both my children are in med school.) </p>
<p>I cannot see how medical science fields are ever going to go away. I think there are funding issues and that the current funding crunch will continue for the foreseeable future. So the number of research jobs in medical sciences might decline, but the need for toxicologists/pharmacologists/epidemiologists will never go away.</p>
<p>Pharmacology/epidemiology/toxicology all have their own separate departments at a medical school or pharmacy school. Those fields are not taught to med or pharm students, but are taught to PHD students studying at the med/pharm school. (Not all students who take classes at medical or pharmacy schools are med students or pharm students; some are graduate students earning MS or PhD degrees in medical science fields.)</p>
<p>I think that you may be taking too big of bite trying to cover all your bases for med, pharm and grad school at the same. I think you need to think some more about what appeals to you. Do like hands-on lab work? Do like working with people who are sick or injured? Do you like writing computer code? </p>
<p>I would suggest that you try to do some shadowing of pharmacists, doctors and other healthcare workers to see what appeals to you. I also suggest you do some reading about the careers in epidemiology/toxicology/pharmacology because those fields are all very different.</p>
<p>@WayOutWestMom
It’s good to know that there will always be jobs in medical science field </p>
<p>So does Ph.D. Student mean they have gotten their PhD degree already, and continuing their specific study?</p>
<p>I do realize that I’m getting too much in my mind right now, but I just want to know what a typical or an one example path looks like when people consider pharm/med related jobs.
I want to have a least a little knowledge about what would happen if I decide that I want to go onto pharm/med school or grad school for something else in the science field. </p>
<p>I actually am interested in all three that you have list, but I think I’m falling more for the hands-on labs. </p>
<p>Thank you, I would definitely do more research on the careers!</p>
<p>Thank you again, for giving me invaluable information and clearing up my confusions and questions :x </p>
<p>PhD student means this individual is working towards earning his/her doctoral degree in a specific field.</p>
<p>A PhD takes anywhere from about 4 years to as many as 10, depending on the individual, the school and the field of study.</p>
<p>There are 2 phases to a PhD program. The first is academic. The new grad student begins by taking more in depth and more specialized coursework. This phase lasts about 2 years. Grades are important and B- is usually considered a failing grade. A student will be dismissed from the program if his GPA drops below a certain point. This phase is capped by an exam or series of exams (varies by school) called qualifying exams. Qualifying exams are comprehensive tests of knowledge in the student’s field. The exams cover not just the student’s specific interest (e.g. pharmacology), but all topics in chemistry (or biology or physics or whatever field the student is studying). Not passing this exam means you are dismissed from the program.</p>
<p>The second phase is the research portion. The student chooses a topic that interests them and basically becomes the world foremost expert of their tiny piece of the scientific universe. They do this by self-studying other people’s research & publications and by developing an unique hypothesis which they then test thru a series of experiments. Lots of stuff can go wrong during the research phase and it’s quite possible to end up with negative or inconclusive results. Hopefully, you will eventually end up with positive data and then you write your thesis, present it to a committee of experts in your field who then question you in detail about your results/ideas/general knowledge of the field–and either they accept or reject your thesis.</p>
<p>So there are lots of pitfalls along the road to a PhD. </p>
<p>After completing your PhD, you look for a job. Academic jobs (college professor or doing research full time) are difficult to get and go only to the very best students. More commonly, a new PhD gets a job in industry or government doing something that is not research and/or is not related to their PhD topic. Or the new PhD accepts a post-doc (temporary research position) that lasts 1-3 years and tries to improve his CV and publication list before looking for an academic position again. Rinse. Repeat. Some PhDs never find a job in their field. Or they find jobs that do not require a PhD. This is especially true in glutted fields like biology and chemistry.</p>
<p>Pharmacology & toxicology fall under either biology or chemistry.</p>
<p>So a PhD does not come with a job guarantee. A MD/DO or a PharmD have much better employment prospects.</p>
<p>I’m not trying to discourage you from considering a research career, but you need to know the path is neither straight-forward or easy.</p>
<p>Also, you say you like the hands-on lab part, but have you ever really worked long-term (a year or longer) in a research environment? Until you have, you really don’t know. It takes a special personality to thrive on both the intense intellectual competition and the repetitiousness of daily life in the lab.</p>
<p>@WayOutWestMom
Thank you so much for the super thorough explanation of the PhD Load :3
Although I wasn’t necessarily discouraged, I thought I should reconsider if I really want my college life and post-college life to look like that with intense studies and the hardship to be in a job that I really want to.
That made me reconsider my college list and added some colleges of interest, which would be very helpful in making a decision in the next few months. </p>
<p>No, I have never worked in a long-tern research environment before.
However, I really enjoyed every bits of biology project I had in both regular Biology and AP Biology.
Also, I have a hobby of baking, and I never thought it was painful to stand in the kitchen for over 6 hours straight following procedures, figuring out why it failed, and fixing the problem and re-baking, so I thought that could relate to a research environment with my favorite subject :)</p>
<p>I’m considering a college that has a really good/unique co-op opportunities for almost all students in their 3rd and 4th year with a strong science/health field.
Do you think a co-op opportunities would be a good idea?
I heard from a friend who attends there that so many people are able to get jobs after graduation at where they’ve co-oped. </p>
<p>Co-op programs have their pluses and minuses. They also vary considerably in quality from school to school. </p>
<p>If you feel this school’s co-op program is strong and it has good reputation for job placement after graduation, then I don’t see a downside to it. </p>
<p>@WayWestOutMom
I have a friend two year older than me that goes to the school that I have mentioned that has the co-op program, and she said it’s a really good program with great opportunities to get jobs after graduation, and pretty strong as a co-op program and as a school also, so I think that will be one of my schools that I will apply to </p>
<p>Thank you so so so much for answering all my long questions and giving me advice and heads-ups!
I really appreciate your kindness!</p>
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