<p>What are the statistics of a student admitted to HPYSM solely for their academic promise? (No hooks, no spectacular ECs, simply a good and smart student with decent involvement) According to Michelle Hernandez's "A is for Admissions," most students accepted to Ivy League schools are accepted for their academic merit (the AI 7s, 8s, 9s). What qualifies these students?</p>
<p>SAT:
SAT IIs:
APs:
GPA:
Rank:
Other Factors:</p>
<p>I think you'd need near perfect stats with no spectacular ECs or anything to get into HYPSM. And even still, chances are their essays showed that they were a real person, not a robot. For exact stats, 2300+ SAT, 2300+ SAT II's, quite a few 5's, 3.9+ UW, and clearly top 2-3% (or better) rank. People with those stats generally have a very good shot at Ivies regardless of ECs and a decent shot HYPSM.</p>
<p>any other opinions?</p>
<p>Is "2300+ SAT, 2300+ SAT II's, quite a few 5's, 3.9+ UW, and clearly top 2-3% (or better) rank" rare? It seems that just about everyone on CC has that. Are those stats truly ENOUGH for top 25 schools?</p>
<p>For top 25 schools, yes, without a doubt. I would even relax the requirement quite a bit. UMich, UCB, and UVA are top 25 yet there are kids who get in with far worse stats and no spectacular ECs to their name. It really starts around the top 10 where you need to go all out.</p>
<p>Well, you need some sort of ECs, obviously, but nothing outstanding. The fact is, there are just too many qualified kids for the number of spots there are. Yes, you will sometimes see a kid with a great hook get accepted to all the top schools, and you'll see plenty of people rejected everywhere...but it's often not that way. Thousands of kids get into some schools, and rejected by ones of essentially the same level, just because at one school they filled a niche, or at one school the adcom was just really enjoying their app, while at another, they didn't click with it. There are NO stats that will give you an autotmatic in, and yet there is a wide range of stats that will keep you in the running. There is luck involved, and personal bias.</p>
<p>I'd say for a purely academic admit, the person will have to have more than just good grades/test scores. They will need to have won some kind of prestigious academic competition or have other academic "hooks" to make up for the lack of ECs. (By lack, I mean really lacking). Of course, the essay will also have to show that they still have personality</p>
<p>2300+ SAT
2350+ SAT IIs
Top 1% rank
500+ community service hours
2-3 leadership positions
IB Diploma Candidate -and- AP Scholar before Senior year</p>
<p>(ideally)</p>
<p>Here's my real example: I was somewhat obsessed with the Academic Index, but I'll be the first to tell you this: it's totally outdated, even though the book isn't <em>that</em> old (about 7 or 8 years, I believe). I had okay extras...people here would probably call them bad, and they certainly weren't great, but I'd estimate them as--at BEST--average in the highly competitive HYP, etc. applicant pool. Honestly, they were probably somewhat below average. However, I did have good stats: </p>
<p>2290 SAT I, 2320 SAT II, 4 AP scores of 5, "only" 3.82 unw GPA, but-->14/770 rank (top 2%), National Merit Finalist, a few other smaller academic awards, positive recs (didn't read, but they certainly could not have hurt me), and a well-written essay. I was a low academic 8 (226 AI score). My admissions decisions: </p>
<p>Yale, Princeton--reject. Applied SCEA at Yale and was initially deferred. Double legacy at Princeton.
Columbia (the college), Brown--waitlisted. No hooks of any kind. </p>
<p>I feel pretty confident in saying that I was not rejected/waitlisted because I wasn't smart enough. Perhaps my GPA was a slight turnoff (although with my rank I doubt it), but really, I just think that I didn't have good enough extras. It takes very little to fall out of the 7% of admitted students at a Yale or Princeton (in the RD round, I mean). Because I'm finicky, I chose 4 of the most selective universities to apply to and none of the rest of the top 20/25, but your question did ask about HYPMS, so here it is. </p>
<p>Other factors to consider: upper-middle class white suburban female applicant from a major Metropolitan area. Also, I attended a public school without a record of Ivy and Ivy-type admissions, and I do believe that it hurt me, both in my recs, which probably weren't as savvy-ly written as those from experienced recomenders, and in my extras. Yes, I could have done more, but honestly, at my relatively average public high school, the opportunity for great extras was severely limited to those with great athletic or musical ability. There was no debate team, no serious academic teams, no teachers nominating their students for national awards, no nothin'. </p>
<p>Conclusion: if you are not a minority, do not have any sort of significant award or extracurricular distinction, and do not have incredible legacies/developmental potential, there basically is no academic profile that can guarantee or even give you a very high chance of admission to HYPMS. Not very many years ago at all, I would have gotten into most or all of the Ivies that I applied to, I would imagine. But not anymore.</p>
<p>More on the Academic Index. My AI is 234/240, but I didn't get into HYP (waitlisted at HY, rejected at P - I'm not international, either). It takes a lot more now to get into HYP than just SAT/SAT 2/AP/rank, methinks. </p>
<p>Colleges now are really looking for the "overall package" (or, in MIT's terms, "the match"). They don't just care whether you have the academic stats - most of the people applying to HYPMSC already have the academic qualifications to attend. It's the extra stuff, the ECs, the individual qualities, the awards that differentiate these hordes of SAT machines from each other.</p>
<p>Another example: One of the Taiwan representatives to the IBO this year also got rejected by Harvard and Princeton (got into Yale - but attending MIT). She already qualified for a world competition, but it doesn't guarantee anything. (Oh - she's not an international student either - dual citizenship).</p>
<p>It's much too hard to predict college admissions now, with admission rates <10% at many schools.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Conclusion: if you are not a minority, do not have any sort of significant award or extracurricular distinction, and do not have incredible legacies/developmental potential, there basically is no academic profile that can guarantee or even give you a very high chance of admission to HYPMS. Not very many years ago at all, I would have gotten into most or all of the Ivies that I applied to, I would imagine. But not anymore.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What you're saying is that international applicants MUST have all three qualities in order to even have a slight chance at the Ivys, right?
BTW, what do you mean by developmental potential?</p>
<p>Are you an international student Oasis? It is unclear from your post ("shes not an international student EITHER")</p>
<p>Developmental potential is code for 'parents who will build the school a new science wing'. The child of a Rockefeller, investment banker, CEO, or other wealthy individuals would be a development admit.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I wonder when Bill Gate's children will graduate..</p>
<p>
[quote]
Are you an international student Oasis? It is unclear from your post ("shes not an international student EITHER")
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No oasis is either a US citizen or a permanent resident (not sure), but lives in Taiwan (I believe oasis also got into Stanford!)</p>
<p>lol, I think people can definitely get into college solely by their academics...But then it's time i get a reality check soon, soon....</p>
<p>I mean 2350 SAT, 3 800s on your SAT 2s, AP National Scholar, Taking like 5th year college math...I don't know why they wouldn't accept you..GIVE me one good reason.i doubt anyone with academics like that was rejected by any school ever....(Or at least they were accepted by 1 of the top schools they applied to)</p>
<p>I saw a kid with 19 AP test (all 4's and 5's) 2250 SAT great sat IIs and top class rank get rejected from harvard last year. You really can't get in as an academics.</p>
<p>The thing about having all of those incredible scores and the time to take 19 APs is that sometimes those kids just don't do anything else...And that comes across in the application. Also, if your entire life adults have been telling you that you'll get into Harvard you might be arrogant, you might take it for granted that you'll be admitted. Or maybe you're just unlucky.</p>
<p>I agree with previous posters, there is nothing purely academic (short of winning a nobel prize as a high schooler) that can GUARANTEE you acceptance.</p>
<p>Afterall, Harvard still rejects 1/4 of all perfect 2400s.</p>
<p>I only know two people who have been accepted to HYP.</p>
<p>Applicant One:
ACT: 35
GPA: 3.89 (at New Trier HS -- EXTREMELY competitive public)
Rank: Doesn't rank, but top decile
ECs: Lots of involvement in two distinct focus areas
Accepted: Yale (attending), Princeton, Illinois-Urbana Champaign
Rejected: Harvard, Penn</p>
<p>Applicant Two:
AP: 36
GPA: 4.0 (noncompetitive HS)
ECs: Two leadership positions, AIME/USAMO, got pretty far in Science Olympiad
Accepted: Princeton, Harvey Mudd, MIT, Pomona (attending), safeties
Rejected: none</p>
<p>"I mean 2350 SAT, 3 800s on your SAT 2s, AP National Scholar, Taking like 5th year college math...I don't know why they wouldn't accept you..GIVE me one good reason.i doubt anyone with academics like that was rejected by any school ever....(Or at least they were accepted by 1 of the top schools they applied to)"</p>
<p>Because there aren't enough spots in the school.</p>
<p>Yeah, I'm an US citizen (I wouldn't be posting if I was international, lol - it's a totally different story). I did get into MSC, but just not HYP. </p>
<p>If you want to know my stats, I have 1600 MV SAT I, 2400 SAT 2, ranked 1 out of 55. Almost all the people that I met and professional counselors say I should be able to make it at least into one, if not two of HYP. I guess I was somewhat close with H and Y, since they waitlisted me - but ultimately, I really think everything else played a bigger part. I had good ECs with leadership, but nothing spectacular (nothing nationally/internationally, for example). I thought my recs were really good, but I guess the adcoms might have seen better, since I come from a small school that doesn't send many people to the Ivies.</p>
<p>Yeah, I almost tend to think of SAT 1, SAT 2, and AP scores as a non-indicator of college acceptance now (unless you are URM, and that's a totally different story). SAT 1 and SAT 2 merely confirms the fact that you will be capable of doing the courseload at University X, but not necessarily you will be admitted into University X. After all, didn't a Harvard adcom say something like 70% of Harvard applicants are qualified academically to attend Harvard?</p>