Academic rivalry between Bama and Auburn?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Alabama
81

<p>Ultimately with the economy still in the doldrums and people realizing taking out tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars worth of loans to pay for their children’s college is not practical, and frankly not prudent. High stats kids that come from middle class and above homes that will not get any assistance are looking at schools with generous merit dollars. It just so happens that UA does a fabulous job of rewarding, and marketing to those kids.</p>

<p>Amen. But tell that to the people at the UNC Chapel Hill forum, who keep acting as if I’m nuts because I dare to point out that, even if UNC is a"bargain" in the abstract, it’s not so bargain-y for financially stressed and squeezed middle-income families. (Which is why we’re voting with our feet and opting for OOS schools that are generous – NOT stingy – with merit aid.)</p>

<p>The economy stinks, and that’s hurting and squeezing the middle class. How hard is that to understand? :o</p>

82

<p>ccforlife
For the freshmen that started fall 2010, more NMF decided to attend AU than UA.</p>

<p>I will agree that you need to look at what you plan to major in. That UA will have an advantage in some majors and AU will have an advantage in others. I just do not believe that UA honors program in general is any better than AU. I think it is more polished. I am not talking about CBHP or Fellows, as AU does not offer a similar program. Those program are selective and the majority of UA honors student are not in those programs.</p>

83

<p>mom2collegekids</p>

<p>Even if you deducted the 4% difference in AA rate between the two schools off the 18-23 ACT range, that would still leave 41% for UA.</p>

<pre><code>I think you miss understood me in regards to honors classes meeting core curriculum. I am aware that you can meet most, if not all, core classes through honors classes. I was talking about only meeting 12 of 53 through University honors classes(the classes limited to 15). Most are met through the departmental Honors classes and they are bigger.
</code></pre>

84

<p>Dadof3</p>

<p>I did not misunderstand you. Re-read my post correcting your statement that honors students can only take 12 honors college classes to fulfill Core Req’ts.</p>

<p>You will see that students can fulfill MORE THAN 12 credits in HONORS COLLEGE classes for CORE. If you’d like, I’ll count them for you.</p>

<p>*
That UA will have an advantage in some majors and AU will have an advantage in others. I just do not believe that UA honors program in general is any better than AU.
I think it is more polished. I am not talking about CBHP or Fellows, as AU does not offer a similar program. Those program are selective and the majority of UA honors student are not in those programs. *</p>

<p>I really don’t think many Auburn people would agree with you. It has long been accepted that Bama has the superior and more developed honors college. </p>

<p>And…You really can’t just disclude CBHP and Fellows since you are discussing honors opportunities and academics between the 2 schools. That’s Auburn’s shortcoming for not offering something similar. You don’t just cross off two of Bama’s better offerings (advantages) so that they don’t count…LOL It’s not relevant that all honors kids aren’t in those programs. The programs are available and attract high stats students. </p>

<p>Maybe you don’t like including CBH and UFE because they so obviously uphold my argument that low-stats kids are not taking the same classes as high stats kids. </p>

<p>You are falling for the same mistaken thought process that some others do. High stats kids are not found equally distributed across all majors (and neither are low stats kids). High stats kids are largely found concentrated amongst about 6-10 majors. </p>

<p>That’s why your argument falls flat about needing to look at “the academic caliber of the whole student population”. You think that is important because honors students are also taking many non-honors classes. It’s not important for the reasons that I’ve already detailed. </p>

<p>And…BTW…Auburn is the one that has decided to further exclude qualified kids from its entire honors college. So, should we not count the entire Auburn honors college since some who have the qualifications aren’t allowed in??? Actually, Bama is probably grateful for that. When kids are “sitting on the fence” deciding between the two schools, knowing that Bama will accept you into honors while Auburn won’t…well, that works for Bama. :)</p>

85

<p>Here…I’ve counted them for you…</p>

<p>6 hours in 300- and 400-level courses with W designation
12 hours approved for the humanities and fine arts (HU, L & FA) </p>

<h2>12 hours approved for the history and social and behavioral sciences (HI & SB) designations</h2>

<p>30 hours that can be taken in UHP Honors College Courses to go towards Core.</p>

<p>Not 12.</p>

86

<p>I looked at the courses offered by University honors for fall 2011. When looking at the course attributes listed for each, I did not find a single listing for History or social and behavioral sciences. I did see ones listed for Humanities, Fine Arts and Writing. I did not include the 6 credits for Writing in 300 & 400 level classes with UHP classes as I think those would be fulfilled in major. You can always take more Humanities, Fine Arts and Writing credits than required if you wanted too.</p>

<p>I agree that CBHP and Fellows are advantages for UA honors program. But less than 10% of the honors college is comprised of students in those programs. It is relevant that most honors kids are not in those programs.They are not benefiting from what those programs offer. As far as those programs being available help the honors college by attracting high stats kids, they do. But Auburn attracts those high stats kids without those programs.</p>

<p>If Auburn used the same criteria as UA for letting students into the honors college, that would be about 40 - 50% of the freshmen class compared to 20% of the freshmen class for UA. I think you loose what is attractive about a honors college if 50% of the students are in it. </p>

<pre><code>Do you have the breakdown of were those high stat kids are? And that the low stats kids are not also in those majors or are you just making assumptions. Engineering is a major you would say has the high stat kids and not the low stats kids, but I know of a student who was offered admissions to an engineering program at a large state university with an ACT of 21 and mediocre academic record. I have seen nothing to say that is not the case at UA.
</code></pre>

87

<p>"If Auburn used the same criteria as UA for letting students into the honors college, that would be about 40 - 50% of the freshmen class compared to 20% of the freshmen class for UA. I think you loose what is attractive about a honors college if 50% of the students are in it. " </p>

<p>Don’t make me have to break out UA’s OIRA link on you! lol. First, you are wrong to say that 20 per cent of UA’s freshman class is eligible for the Honors Program. The 25 to 75 percentile range is now 22-29 per CC’s UA admissions stats page, meaning that at least 25% of UA’s fall 2010 freshman class had an ACT of 29 or higher. The Honor’s Program has an ACT minimum requirement of 28. Plus, once those who have lower ACT scores prove their ability to perform well, are able to apply to the Honors Program after a year or so. </p>

<p>As at AU, UA’s Engineering program has high avg. stats.: see below</p>

<p><a href=“http://che.eng.ua.edu/ChBE_history.pdf:[/url]”>http://che.eng.ua.edu/ChBE_history.pdf:&lt;/a&gt;
“The fact that chemical engineering leads freshmen enrollment in the college with
respect to ACT scores (28.2 average in 2009) and retained students with an
average GPA of 3.32 in 2009 cannot be disputed. The presence of these
outstanding students is sufficient enough to demand that the faculty and staff
members remain current and at the top of their field in all aspects of the academic
programs.”</p>

<p>Also, you might want to stop comparing AU’s 2010 numbers to UA’s 2009numbers. UA releases its 2010 OIRA common data set towards the end of Spring. </p>

<p><a href=“http://coeweb.eng.ua.edu/news/magazinespring2010.pdf:[/url]”>http://coeweb.eng.ua.edu/news/magazinespring2010.pdf:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As with the University’s growth, the College also has been expanding. Growing from 1,617undergraduate students in 2005 to 2,445 in 2009, the College’s undergraduate enrollment is only one area of many to brag about. Some of the nation’s best and brightest are choosing the Capstone for engineering. The 2009 freshman engineering class had
an average high school grade point average of 3.7 and a mean ACT score of 27.3.
The best and brightest are learning in some of UA’s newest facilities. If you have visited the north side of campus lately, you were sure to notice the many building, facility
and road changes. Engineering has expanded with roles in Shelby Hall, the Science and Engineering Complex and the under-construction Science and Engineering Complex
Phase III.“”</p>

<p>Finally, your math was not really correct earlier. I dont think one can simply subtract the 4 per cent difference in AA enrollment from the other number to understand the impact. Plus, it is possible that AAs at AU have a higher avg. ACT because more of them may be in the Sciences and Engineering programs at AU than at UA. I don’t know. </p>

<p>But the larger point is not that the higher AA enrollment is the sole explanation for the differential in scores. As I pointed out earlier, the higher yield rate is the main reason. While UA is going to raise their standards even more, given the limits of the current campus infrastructure, the huge enrollment growth is allowing UA to financially be able to hire the cream of the crop from an academic buyer’s market. It has also allowed UA to raise faculty salaries. Since you want to compare UA to AU, why don’t you see how AU has fared given its lack of significant growth amidst budget cuts? I think they are basically freezing all new hires, and unable to raise their faculty/staff salaries, and that does not bode well for its future.</p>

88

<p>sorry for the poor writing and spaces. I was copying and pasting</p>

<p>see the corrected text below</p>

<p>I also added a couple of points</p>

89

<p>"If Auburn used the same criteria as UA for letting students into the honors college, that would be about 40 - 50% of the freshmen class compared to 20% of the freshmen class for UA. I think you loose what is attractive about a honors college if 50% of the students are in it. " </p>

<p>Don’t make me have to break out UA’s OIRA link on you! lol. First, you are wrong to say that only 20 per cent of UA’s freshman class is eligible for the Honors Program. The 25 to 75 percentile range is now 22-29 per CC’s UA admissions stats page, meaning that at least 25% of UA’s fall 2010 freshman class had an ACT of 29 or higher. The Honor’s Program has an ACT minimum requirement of 28. Thus, the actual percentage of freshman eligible for the HP would be much higher than 25%. Plus, once those who have lower ACT scores prove their ability to perform well, are able to apply to the Honors Program after a year or so. But I suppose you assume that it would not be possible for UA to have so many in its Honors Program and keep those HP class sizes small, but if you look at the percentage of small classes at UA, it is higher than at AU. I will try to find a link to document this. I think the US News rankings shows this advantage for UA. </p>

<p>As at AU, UA’s Engineering program has high avg. stats.: see below</p>

<p><a href=“http://che.eng.ua.edu/ChBE_history.pdf:[/url]”>http://che.eng.ua.edu/ChBE_history.pdf:&lt;/a&gt;
“The fact that chemical engineering leads freshmen enrollment in the college with respect to ACT scores (28.2 average in 2009) and retained students with an average GPA of 3.32 in 2009 cannot be disputed. The presence of these outstanding students is sufficient enough to demand that the faculty and staff members remain current and at the top of their field in all aspects of the academic programs.”</p>

<p><a href=“http://coeweb.eng.ua.edu/news/magazinespring2010.pdf:[/url]”>http://coeweb.eng.ua.edu/news/magazinespring2010.pdf:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As with the University’s growth, the College also has been expanding. Growing from 1,617undergraduate students in 2005 to 2,445 in 2009, the College’s undergraduate enrollment is only one area of many to brag about. Some of the nation’s best and brightest are choosing the Capstone for engineering. The 2009 freshman engineering class had
an average high school grade point average of 3.7 and a mean ACT score of 27.3."</p>

<p>Also, you might want to stop comparing AU’s 2010 numbers to UA’s 2009numbers. UA releases its 2010 OIRA common data set towards the end of Spring. </p>

<p>Finally, your math was not really correct earlier. AU has less than half the same percentage of AA students. I don’t think one can simply subtract 4 % from the other number to understand the impact, as that is bad math. Think about it for a minute. Plus, it is possible that AAs at AU have higher avg. ACTs. If so, it could be because more of them may be in the Sciences and Engineering programs at AU than at UA. I don’t know. </p>

<p>But the larger point is not that UA’s more than 50 per cent greater enrollment rate (again, subtract 7 from 11, and one gets four, but that is more than half of 7!) of AAs is the sole explanation for the differential in scores. As I pointed out earlier, the higher yield rate is the main reason. While UA is going to raise their standards even more, given the limits of the current campus infrastructure, the huge enrollment growth is allowing UA to financially be able to hire the cream of the crop from an academic buyer’s market. It has also allowed UA to raise faculty salaries. Since you want to compare UA to AU, why don’t you see how AU has fared given its lack of significant growth amidst budget cuts? I think they are basically freezing all new hires, and unable to raise their faculty/staff salaries, and that does not bode well for its future.</p>

90

<p>When ever I have made direct comparison between UA and Auburn using the common data set it has been with the 2009-2010 data, the last year listed on UA site. When I have mentioned data for Auburn from 2010 - 2011 data, I have stated it was from 2010 - 2011 and that UA was not yet available. I used that information to show that Auburn is becoming more selective and that the number of high stats kids is increasing even while having an acceptance rate 25 percentage points higher than UA.</p>

<p>I went and got the enrollment figures in the honors college for 2009 - 2010. the last year available on UA site( I am very aware of UA OIRA and that is where I get all my stats for UA from). There was a total of 4,022 students in the honors college out of a total undergrad population of 23,296. That put 17.3% of students in the honors college. If you just look at incoming freshmen, there was 1,219 out of 5,116 in the honors college. That was 23.8%. I was not too far off from the 20% comment I made. I would expect some increase from the fall 2010 class, but that info has not been released yet. The data does not show an increase to the number of students because of being able later to get into honors. If anything you have kids dropping out as they advance from freshman to senior.
I never assumed UA could not keeps it UHP classes small. But they can only handle about a 1/3 of the students in the honors college. I have seen the stats that says UA has a higher percentage of small classes compared to Auburn, and that probably has a lot to do with the UHP classes. When I looked at the classes my D would be taking, she would have overall smaller classes at Auburn compared to UA. For someone else in a different major it may be different. I think each person needs to look at what classes they will be taking and what the size is for those classes and decide which is better for them.
Back to the growth issue. Auburn is not trying to grow. UA is still growing and Dr. Whitt does not believe there is a limit to the current campus infrastructure. He believes the campus can handle 35,000 students. So I think UA will continue to raise their standards, I just think Auburn standards will have bigger jumps.</p>

91

<p>Dadto3: I may have missed it somewhere so apologies if I did, but what is your D’s intended major again?</p>

92

<p>Those Honors program stats you referenced are correct. However, the point I was making is that a significantly higher percentage than just 20 per cent of UA’s freshman class could be accepted into the Honors Program, if those who haven’t applied, chose to. </p>

<p>Again, you need to know that the 35,000 goal is to be achieved by 2020, not several years from now. Thus the growth rate will now significantly decline from where it has been since Dr. Witt arrived. </p>

<p>And you should also know that the increased enrollment will not result from ever larger freshman classes, but from increased overall enrollment, primarily among Grad students, a driving force for becoming a tier one research institution. </p>

<p>For the amount of growth UA has had, it really is remarkable that is has also concurrently become more selective and has experienced signficant increases in avg. test scores. Of course, if the yield rate was as low as AU’s, they would be much higher. But as I reminded in the last post, it is the tremendous growth rate that is allowing UA to hire great new faculty members and to pay existing faculty to retain the best and brightest faculty. AU has not been able to do either, because of their relatively anemic growth. </p>

<p>Yes, AU has had remarkable increases in avg. test scores, but there is no evidence AU has become more selective! In fact, its acceptance rate has increased. Its yield rate, AA enrollment rate, and freshman class sizes declined signficantly over the last five or so years, which allowed for much of their higher avg. scores. I see that at least two of those factors actually increased for last fall, so I admit that part of the increase is surely because folks are increasinly aware of AU’s increasingly prestigous Engineering programs. So I think there has been some self selection as well. And that is to AU’s credit, but you really are putting UA’s fantastic growth in a distorted light.</p>

93

<p>*I did not include the 6 credits for Writing in 300 & 400 level classes with UHP classes as I think those would be fulfilled in major. *</p>

<p>Not so. Many majors do not offer the courses to fulfill this requirement. So, students aren’t required to take them in their major. My older son is a math major. Math only offers one upper division class with a W designation. </p>

<p>Do you have the breakdown of were those high stat kids are? And that the low stats kids are not also in those majors or are you just making assumptions.</p>

<p>Actually, I have seen a breakdown of where most of these high stats kids are…they are mostly in Engineering, Chem, Physics, Bio, Math, Business, and Nursing. I’m not saying that high stats kids can’t be found elsewhere, they are. But, they are more concentrated in about 5-10 majors. That’s not unusual for most schools. I would imagine that most of the high stats kids at Auburn are also largely concentrated in the same majors.</p>

<p>As for low stats kids…I’m not saying that some low stats kids don’t try to start in those majors. That does happen. And it can happen at most schools, unless a major is impacted or has a minimum stats req’t. </p>

<p>Last January, I had a discussion about this exact issue with a chemE prof. He said, that low stats kids who sign up for engineering change majors either in the first or second year. He said that they are gone by the time they get to his classes because they can’t make it thru the Cals, DifEQ, Gen Chem, etc. For engineering, those are the “weeder” classes.</p>

<p>This isn’t something unique to Bama…it’s nearly everywhere. </p>

<p>My younger son is pre-med. At EVERY college, hundreds of kids declare that they are “pre-med”. Yet, by about the 3rd semester, 3/4 of them have realized that they don’t have what it takes and change their direction. The classes (Gen Chem, OChem, Bio, Cal) that are taken those first 2-4 semesters are the weeder classes. Seriously, anytime I hear a student who has sub ACT 30 say that he’s pre-med, I know that he will likely change his mind by the time he’s a sophomore. The classes are often too hard for such a student to have the 3.7+ GPA for med school. And, there is a correlation between MCAT score and ACT score…and kids really need a 30+ MCAT to get into med school.</p>

94

<p>Atlanta68</p>

<p>If UA does not increase freshman class size from this years total of 5,563, there undergrad enrollment total will increase by at least 2500 in 3 years just due to the difference between the size of the incoming freshman class compared to the one 4 years earlier. So by fall 2013, UA enrollment is 32,500 without any increase in grad students.
As for the increase in avg. test scores, we know that for both schools it is because the generous scholarships they offer.
If UA had Auburn yield rate, there acceptance rate would have to rise and I would assume they would have to accept more kids with lower stats in order to have the size of the freshman class they been having. That is the puzzling thing with the acceptance rate and yield rate for UA. You would think by accepting a lower percentage of applicants,and of those you accepted more deciding to enroll, you would have better stats than a school who accepted a higher percent of applicants and of those who you did accept fewer decided to enroll with you. So if I took UA acceptance and yield rate and applied it to Auburn, I would expect their stats to be higher than they currently are.</p>

<pre><code>Just because UA has decided to increase enrollment does not make it a negative that Auburn has decided not too. I actual think it is a positive that they wish to keep enrollment steady at around 25,000. There freshmen enrollment has not declined significantly, it has been relatively steady. Their last five freshmen class sizes, going from fall 2006 till fall 2010, have been 4,092, 4,191, 3,984, 3,918, and 4,204. And for the freshman class 2010 their goal was 3,920. So there class was bigger than they wanted.

I sure would hope UA is hiring a bunch of professors. Just to maintain their 20 to 1 student/ faculty ratio they would need to hire about 50 professors a year. Auburn only needs to hire professors to replace those that retire or leave to maintain their 18 to 1 student/faculty ratio. I know Auburn professors were on a pay freeze for the last several years( not surprising with recent economy) but either I read or the professor we had lunch with in Nov. stated they would be getting raises this year.
</code></pre>

95

<p>My concern with UA continued increase enrollment for students looking at it is that when we visited last spring a professor we spoke with was hoping that they were done growing. He felt their infrastructure was being strained then. So now you are going to add another 5,000 students on top of that. I had read stories in the crimson white of student complaining about overcrowding. People complaining about parking lots being overbooked. You have upperclassmen who want to live on campus being told they can not because there is no room. That is only going to increase with more students on campus. There are no plans to add anymore academic building.</p>

96

<p>RobD</p>

<p>My daughter will be majoring in Chemistry.</p>

97

<p>*You have upperclassmen who want to live on campus being told they can not because there is no room. *</p>

<p>LOLOLOLOLOLOL someone who is considering going to Auburn has no business criticizing Bama’s housing issues. LOL Auburn has far less housing than Bama does. Bama has over 2500 honors super suites beds…Auburn has…lol…298 honors super suites beds. Don’t even try to get one as a returning sophomore. Don’t even begin to criticize Bama’s housing issues when Auburn’s are sooooooooooooo much worse. My next door neighbor’s D is at Auburn. She was “promised” (LOL) a suite in The Villages as a frosh, but wasn’t given one because Auburn over-promised prospective students, and will not have campus housing as a soph. </p>

<p>I feel sorry for the NMFs at Auburn that were shown The Villages with the idea that they would get to stay in those for 4 years. Their tushies will be kicked out after frosh year. </p>

<p>Why don’t YOU ask Auburn how many their upper classmen are in non-Greek university housing. I don’t think Auburn can even guarantee housing to all frosh because they don’t have enough housing. </p>

<p>And as for overcrowding…lol…Auburn’s campus is packed tight like sardines. </p>

<p>And…you keep acting like those 5,000 students Bama will be adding over the next 10 years will all be undergrads. I already told you that they will be a mix of undergrad, law, and grad students (and likely med students as well). The 28k students currently on campus aren’t all undergrads. </p>

<p>Bama just bought 300 more acres of land. The growth of student population will be slow with additional buildings going in to accomodate. Bama added 40 buildings in the last 9 years…and they will continue to build as needed. More residential housing buildings are planned, a second rec center, more dining venues, more classrooms/labs/etc. </p>

<p>I forgot to further address your question about Social B and History designated courses in the honors college. </p>

<p>IHP offers two classes that have the SB designation. UHP kids are allowed to take those classes. My son took one. </p>

<p>There are 4 UHP honors classes with the History designation</p>

<p>HY 105 Honors Western Civilization to 1648 HI<br>
HY 106 Honors Western Civilization since 1648 HI </p>

<p>HY 205 Honors American Civilization to 1865 HI<br>
HY 206 Honors American Civilization since 1865 HI </p>

<p>IHP 105 Culture and Human Experience SB<br>
IHP 155 Honors Freshman Seminar SB </p>

<p>*There are no plans to add anymore academic building. *</p>

<p>Where did you hear this nonsense? Phase IV of the Science and Engineering Complex will break ground within several months - so there is firm proof that you’re wrong. and, I REALLY doubt that that is the last planned academic building. </p>

<p>And, since Phase III (which is huge) isn’t finished, that building will also provide more classrooms and labs. So, right there, Bama will have more academic space than what it currently has. Bama also just opened a brand new College of Nursing building…very large. So, the former nursing building will be remodeled and used for more classrooms/labs.
Who is telling you this nonsense that Bama isn’t adding any more academic space?</p>

<p>*People complaining about parking lots being overbooked. *</p>

<p>Did you ever go to college? I can’t think of one college in this country that doesn’t have students complaining about parking issues.</p>

98

<p>Another thing Dad continues to ignore is the fact that UA’s additional faculty hires, along with a growing Grad School, are allowing it to become a Tier One research institution. </p>

<p>Do we get to go on the AU board and try to make AU look bad? No school is perfect. UA has issues, but perhaps you would do better to spend more time on the AU board seeing as how fewer students seem interested in going there.</p>

99

<p>*The 2009 (Alabama) freshman engineering class had
an average high school grade point average of 3.7 and a mean ACT score of 27.3."</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>That is almost identical to Auburn’s frosh engineering stats…gpa average 3.74 and a mean ACT score of 27.8. </p>

<p>What helps Auburn with overall campus stats is that 25% of their students are engineers, while only 10% of Bama’s student are engineers. Bama has more Fine Arts students and students in other majors who don’t traditionally have engineer-like ACT scores. but, that’s ok because those kids aren’t usually taking hard science courses.</p>

<p>However, because Bama is strong in the sciences, Bama boasts over an 80% acceptance rate to med schools. That is very high…contrast that to my native state (Calif) UCs that only have about a 50% acceptance rate.</p>

100

<p>Auburn does not have as much housing as UA, but you know that going in. The housing situation is not going to change due to an increase in undergrads. Auburn does not require freshmen to live on campus and therefore does not guarantee housing for them. At Auburn they are set up for the majority of students to live off campus with the tiger transit going to the different apartment complexes in town. UA transit system does not go off campus. So if you live off campus you need to have a car and hope you can find a place to park on campus. For students without housing scholarships, it is much cheaper to live off campus. You can have your own bedroom and bath in an off campus apartment in Auburn and spend $3,000 per year less than what it cost to stay in a super-suite room at UA. As for those students in the honors super-suites, they have been told they can stay in them all 4 years. You may not get in the honors super suites as a freshmen, but as I said you are told that in the beginning.</p>

<pre><code>Stating that Auburn’s campus is packed tight like sardines has to be the most incorrect statement I have heard in a long time. I have been on campus twice, at no time did I feel that building were too close together or that walkways were crowded when students were changing classes. I felt more that way at UA. At UA I did not like having to deal with traffic in crossing roads on campus to get from one location to the other. At Auburn I could get most anywhere without having to cross a road.

The current population at UA is 30,000 and not 28,000. If you read my earlier post you noticed that I said if UA freshmen class size stays the same as the fall 2010 class(5,563), that by Fall 2013 that UA undergrad population would increase by at least 2500 students. That is just due to the fact that the class coming in is replacing a much smaller class that started 4 years earlier.
</code></pre>

<p>We I stated that there are no plans to add any academic buildings, I should have said there are no new plans to add any academic building. The science and engineering complex has been planned for a long time and when it was planned the enrollment goal was 28,000 and not 35,000. All the other building UA has added in the last 9 years were not built with current student population in mind let alone 35,000. I have not read any articles that states that with the new enrollment goal that additional academic building are going to be built. They are planning to renovate some. At this time, I have not read any article that indicates they will be using the Bryce hospital property anytime soon. My understanding is that a new hospital has to be built first before UA can do anything.</p>

<p>I stand corrected that you can take 15 person limit honors classes to satisfy your SB core requirements. The history classes are departmental honors classes and do not have the 15 person limit. The class size is 25. Not bad but higher than 15. I just think people need to look at what the class sizes will be for what they will be taking at college. When I looked at the honors classes my Daughter would be taking in comparing UA with Auburn, the majority would be departmental honors and in some cases those classes are 50% or more smaller at Auburn and in others they are the same. When talking with the honors college they emphasized UHP classes and there 15 class limit. So while nice, she would not be in many of those classes and not enough to make her think that UA honors program was better than Auburn. For her, the size of the honors departmental classes were more important.</p>

<p>As for who is telling me all this nonsense, this is all from reading UA’s website, this forum and maybe a few articles in Tuscaloosa newspaper.</p>