Academy to stress war readiness

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
61

<p>Good points 2012mom</p>

<p>Great article. Hmm what would the Supe think about "playing Bridge every night!"</p>

<p>Agree with grad/dad. Many leave for various reasons and should not be chastised for doing so, nor should they be made to feel that they shouldn't have been there in the first place or the most common "you took my place." As for are easy replaced... The Academy does not "replace" third class or second class midshipmen. The class size reduces with those that leave. As for XXX ready to take their place remember that many of them will also not find it to their expectation, nor are those 13000 all academically or physically qualified. Typically only 1800 or so make that cut. By suggesting that there are 13000 out there ready to take their place one would come to the conclusion that you would prefer to see the standards reduced just to fill the place up. So easily replace may not really be true.</p>

<p>Jumping to the conclusion that they are "bailing out" do to liberty and poor meals is taking a huge leap. Have really not heard any 3/C complain about liberty - complaint is more in line with NT. It is about being micromanaged, not being given the opportunity to lead, not given the opportunity to make a decision be it good or bad and learn by having been given that opportunity. IMO I would prefer a leader in the Military who can think not one who just "follows blindly"</p>

62

<p>The Supe and Dant would have fried him and I think UNSA69 would have agreed to it. </p>

<p>Someone else looked into the alledged rumour of 600 or 700 transcripts and it wasn't factual. It would down in the 20s and mostly due to graduate education requests plus a few others. No mutiny, just not a lot of fun. And for all those alumni that think the four years should be filled with studying and onboard the yard for four years, I say you're full of it. The Mids will get plenty of work, and have to make tough decisions upon graduation. Having a few weekends to hang out, watch a movie, surf, ski, rock climb, bike, hang out again, crap...shoot pool and maybe play bridge, isn't going to ruin them. Just look at your four years and better yet your last four years...I'm sure you've had some fun...and if you didn't, I really feel sorry for you. </p>

<p>Cheerio.</p>

63

<p>


They have been given an opportunity to make a decision and have failed horribly, the decision to get on board with the new policies. And they will learn the consequences of that decision.</p>

64

<p>So they have been given the opportunity to make one decision and chose a different decision than USNA69 would have. That is not failing horribly. It is just a decision that is different than this alumni's expectation of what is perceived as right.
Would imagine that there are other Alumni that might perceive the Brigade as having made the right decision to not get on board with the new policies, not to follow blindly, but to ask questions and expect answers. </p>

<p>IMO they are not given the opportunity to learn any leadership skills under this administration. Just to be good little followers... with no opportunity to grow in both leadership skills and or even social skills. Not the kind of leader I want for these times in the USA. </p>

<p>I believe USNA69 and I are destine to disagree on this topic. No harm no foul just two very different opinions from two very different backgrounds. </p>

<p>Bring on the Bridge game... good card players are usually quick thinkers with good analysis skills for making that decision. I'm seeing a new EC! But not under this supe. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.hometownannapolis.com/cgi-bin/read/2007/10_01-01/NAV%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.hometownannapolis.com/cgi-bin/read/2007/10_01-01/NAV&lt;/a>
Academy grad new Joint Chiefs chairman</p>

<p>
[quote]
As Mullen moves into his new job as principal military adviser to the president, he has acknowledged that the burden of four-plus years of war in Iraq is endangering the health of the American military.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Rather contrary to the Board of visitors meeting with the Supes prediction, which presented itself more like a wish, of this conflict lasting 30 more years.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Another "must" for Mullen was better supporting Navy families,

[/quote]
Last time I checked Midshipmen were in the Navy so does that not make us mm Navy Families? Guess the current Supe missed that portion of leadership from his former CNO.</p>

65

<p>USNA69, I fail to see how the mids have "failed horribly."</p>

<p>When food shortages happened, firsties made sure that plebes and youngsters ate first. </p>

<p>The rumored "mass exodus" is apparently unfounded.</p>

<p>Mids who used to post here do so no longer, possibly holding to the adage, "If you have nothing good to say...." That's exactly what you want from them, isn't it, 69? To shut up and get on with it?</p>

<p>The only "horrible failure" appears to be that some mids expressed to parents their frustrations about the loss of leadership responsibility that they expected to have this year. As far as I know, joining the military does not require a person to have no opinion about their chain of command. It DOES require them to carry out their orders. That's a big difference, and nothing posted here indicates that the mids haven't done their duty, or that they have any intention of doing anything other than their best in service to our country.</p>

66

<p>


</p>

<p>Of course they can have an opinion, but only to themselves. In the military, mass rejection of the orders of the chain of command is called “mutiny”. Not only do leaders carry out their orders, they support their leaders. This is not happening. I had no doubt the 700 transcripts was a typical wild out-of-control rumor. However, the comments on this thread concerning plebes resigning and mids not going subs probably has rings of truth to them. There are two growing camps in the plebe class, those who think their upperclass are horrible leaders, and those who trust and believe in them and listen to them. Unfortunately what the upperclassmen are telling them is that they should resign, that the Academy effort is not worth it. This is horrible leadership and, yes, they should purge themselves from the ranks of the Brigade. They have failed as the “best” and are proving themselves not to be the “brightest”.</p>

67

<p>
[quote]
you mms are causing your midshipman to fail.

[/quote]
LOL Mine is hardly failing!</p>

<p>By Midshipmen expressing concerns to their parents and yes even their peers is by no means mutiny. Nothing that my mid or his friends have expressed even comes close to being being construed as failing or not being able to "weather" what you call a minor bump in the road. Not feeding the brigade and not allowing them to grow as leaders is where the failing is occurring. Somewhere the point about "complaining about lack of liberty" has become a focus. No where have I seen or heard that complaint as being the "major" grump. What they are concerned about is their leadership (Academy, not Brigade) not explaining, not implementing what they are "supposedly" stating in their visions statement, not being visible to the Brigade, micromanaging, and acting like they dislike the Midshipman. IMO defines poor leadership and poor role models, especially when the roll model seems more impressed with himself rather than leading the Brigade. </p>

<p>The "two camps" in the Plebe ranks were there last years and I suspect even in prior years. Plebes will make opinions on their squad leader, company leaders and Brigade leaders - it is human nature. There will be those they respect and those they think are jerks. They will figure out who they individually (and with their friends) respect and who they do not. They will figure out who to trust and who to not. With 120+ midshipmen in a Company there will be upperclass that the plebes will not care for. Does that mean that a Plebe can honestly tell you that "They should purge themselves" because I don't like their message and style of leadership.? If that is the case then why is it not appropriate for the Brigade to make judgments on the Academy Leadership? </p>

<p>
[quote]
Once they have questioned and discussed it with their chain of command, they have an obligation to get on board and support their leaders. Or resign. Pure and simple. This is leadership.
[quote]
Your definition of leadership. When leadership does not want to listen, that is my definition of poor leadership. "My Way or the Highway" does not make for quality leadership. </p>

<p>
[quote]
As far as I know, joining the military does not require a person to have no opinion about their chain of command.

[/quote]
So check the Brain at the Door. A military full of robots. Not the military I want nor do I think will can succeed in the future.</p>

68

<p>Like most truths, I suspect it's somewhere in the middle here. 69ers view and language tend to be more black and white and direct than may be reality. Conversely, his object lesson of the appropriate mode for military disagreements is pretty much on target, no matter how much we'd like to think otherwise. I believe we do our Mid's a disservice in all of this if we do anything beyond listen with a loving ear and encouraging them to always respect their new chain of command.</p>

<p>And as for lamenting a Mids absence on this on-line coffee klatch, well all I can say is that thank goodness mine is not spending one waking moment amidst (pun intended) our silliness. Now that would be a total waste of taxpayer funds, to say nothing of a Mid's precious time.</p>

69

<p>The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves… </p>

<p>
[quote]
The Academy’s new boss says a midshipman’s first duty is to learn to lead Sailors and Marines in combat. Everything else is “secondary, optional, and conditional.”

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If only it were that simply, if only the responsibilities and the challenges facing our sons and daughter could be distilled down to a one dimensional individual born, bred, educated and indoctrinated to excel at combat and leading follow soldiers. Is that consistent with the challenges facing our soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan? If they were better war fighters and our soldiers lead by better leaders, would the war go our way? Will the solution to peace in the Middle East (if there can ever be such a thing) be found on the path to combat readiness? Does anyone really think that we can intimidate a terrorist into not acting by being better prepared to fight or through the use of force projection in a region simply by positioning some carriers off shore? These are men without a country, without assets to bomb, people that will willingly blow themselves up at the drop of a hat. We are currently in Iraq fighting the kind of war we are because of a single minded and very one dimensional approach to a very complex region. To think that well educated men with both political and professional experience thought for a minute that the liberation of Iraq would engender the same kind of response and success as the liberation of Paris is mind-boggling. There is no doubt in my mind that skills beyond those needed to lead men in combat are crucial to the survival of these officers and their men in combat. </p>

<p>The war on terrorism is a war unlike any other we have fought. Ever group of individuals with a gripe about any issue, religion, economics, discrimination real or imagined, has been shown the way by the actions of the few over the past few decades; get a bomb and blow something up. The greatest asset we can bring to a fight like this is men and women that possess the capacity to think and constantly adjust to a continuously evolving theater of operations that may require them to do much more than lead men into combat. This is not WWII and we are not trying to push German troops out of France in direct engagements. The bad guys don’t wear armbands with swastikas. Some understanding of the culture and language skills will go a long way towards keeping these men and women alive. </p>

<p>The mission and the requirements of Marines is going to be somewhat different than those of Naval officers; some skills and training will be more useful and relevant to one but maybe not the other. At the same time I assume we are not training Naval and Marine officers with the expectation they will serve one tour and then exit. The outgoing chairman of the JCS was a Marine; what skill set did that job require? Is it safe to assume something more than just the ability to lead men in combat? </p>

<p>
[quote]
Face of the Navy
That leads me to my third fundamental belief: midshipmen and those who participate in their development are the face of the Navy. As I spent three years in Navy recruiting,
traveling to every state in our country, I was amazed to discover the general lack of knowledge about our armed forces. Many people do not know the difference between the Army and the Navy, and believe all who serve in the military are “Soldiers.” This past year I was traveling through the airport in my khakis when someone called me “Sarge.”

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well “Sarge” you’ve hit upon an important and fundamental problem that obviously exists across our nation. So then how do you help address the problem facing our armed services and make ordinary people see what the military is all about? How do you make these people who have little if any experience with the military see that our sons and daughters are no different then their own while at the same time appreciate the mission and the sacrifices we must make to succeed? Do you accomplish that by restricting Mids to the Yard, keeping them away from games, limiting their ability to travel and meet student and competitors from other colleges? How can you get it and then not get it? </p>

<p>If you are preparing men and women to fight for the next 30 years against a foe that will likely still be here in 300 years, I think it’s safe to say the support of our citizens and voters is key; a fundamental part of our strategy to success. How then can you recognize the problem and diminish or ignore an opportunity to support a solution? </p>

<p>I don’t get it.</p>

70

<p>
[quote]
There are two growing camps in the plebe class, those who think their upper-class are horrible leaders, and those who trust and believe in them and listen to them. Unfortunately what the upperclassmen are telling them is that they should resign, that the Academy effort is not worth it. This is horrible leadership and, yes, they should purge themselves from the ranks of the Brigade. They have failed as the “best” and are proving themselves not to be the “brightest”.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I made the mistake of scrolling up and reading you last post USNA69. What is it with you and your non-stop assault on these kids? How can you possibly make such irresponsible statements about a pool of data that you can’t possible possess. Are you conducting phone polling on a daily basis with a pool of hundreds of Mids to generate this information? There are what… 2000-3000 upperclassmen depending on where you make the distinction, and you are apparently convinced that the “upperclassmen” all 2000-3000 of them are telling our Plebes that they should resign? I speak to my son often, online and on the phone when he can, and I’ve never heard any of the crap you are peddling here today. Give it a break already.</p>

71

<p>Unfortunately, my mid wannabe ran into exactly that type of cadet (bad mouthing the specific service academy) this summer at a summer seminar (NOT Navy).</p>

<p>In contrast, at NASS she found mids who were proud of their academy, and who worked very hard to instill that pride in a group of HS students in only 5 days. In my dd's case, they succeeded.</p>

<p>My point is that I believe that the vast majority of mids, while they may have initially complained to parents about the various changes, DO seem to be moving on. A firstie we know was recently asked in public about the various changes, and whether that mid would recommend USNA to others. The answer was an immediate, resounding, "Yes!"</p>

<p>I still don't believe that letting out frustrations to parents showed "horrible leadership." I must agree with 69, though, that if individual mids are "bad-mouthing" their academy or their COC to their peers, or worse yet, to plebes or candidates, they really should resign.</p>

72

<p>While every Mid that I have talked to has an opinion about the changes....NOT ONE has said that they wished they had not come to Annapolis and they remain proud of being a part of the Brigade. The upperclass are doing their job, they are standing watch and mentoring the plebes. While on the phone last night my Firstie was interrupted no less than 4 times within a 5 minute phone call, he was co. duty officer and was doing his job of taking care of details/problems as he is supposed to do. </p>

<p>USNA69 - I never heard him bad-mouth the Academy to anyone...not the plebes, his classmates or his family. He remains proud of his decision and is anxious to move on to the next challenge whatever that may be. (Why are they always so anxious to move on?) You are way off base and you insult these fine young men and women. </p>

<p>The Brigade is full of men and women who come from all backgrounds, faiths, race and upbringing. You cannot lump them all together and try to force them into the mold of a singular "fighting" machine. IMO the current administration has no interest in seeing the Brigade as made up of individuals, but rather sees them as one great big problem that must be "fixed." The Mids see it, alums see it and even up lowly mm see it.</p>

73

<p>
[quote]
that if individual mids are "bad-mouthing" their academy or their COC to their peers, or worse yet, to plebes or candidates, they really should resign.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>2012 the key word in your comments was "individual", that is enough to differentiate your observations from others who are trying to suggest we should use the alleged conduct of some "individuals" as an excuse to paint the entire brigade as a bunch of malcontents. </p>

<p>My son had an NROTC interview with a Lt. that spent more time talking about why he was getting out than asking my son about why he wanted to join. Should I use the standards applied by an individual posting on this site and therefore assume that every Lt. in the United States Navy is as big a jackass as this one because his conduct must therefore be typical of the entire Navy? How can any educated adult even come close to thinking that way. When you make sweeping generalizations about people or groups of people you inevitably make mistakes and in the end you are telling us more about yourself than what you may be attempting to convey in your criticism of others.</p>

74

<p>^^^The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves… --rjrzoom57</p>

<p>You always write something worth reading. Thanks!</p>

75

<p>
[QUOTE]
They have been given an opportunity to make a decision and have failed horribly, the decision to get on board with the new policies. And they will learn the consequences of that decision.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>just a few thoughts...
first and foremost, "they"..... as in "a few individuals." This comment, while no doubt appropriate for "a few," is not appropiate for "the many."</p>

<p>And yes- they will learn the consequences of their decisions. As will the current administration.</p>

<p>We all reap what we sow. The mids, the supe, the dant.... no one gets excused.</p>

<p>Time will reveal all.
But leadership is about gaining respect so that others will follow.
And good leadership respects those that fall under their command.
IMO- that is the key ingredient missing these days. </p>

<p>USNA69- while I appreciate your comments as to the basic integrety of the future leadership of these up and coming naval officers, can you please show me one.... just one.... instance where Admiral Fowler has demonstrated even the most basic sign of respect for the Brigade? This is not a retorical question.... I am really struggling to see it........or do you think it is not there because EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of the Brigade is undeserving of such???? Is there not one member..... even the Brigade Commander.... deserving of some level of respect?</p>

76

<p>


</p>

<p>I think enlightenment is just around the corner. You will note that you used the singular “is” when referring to the Brigade. Not only is it grammatically correct, it is a fact. The Navy is based on teamwork; when one fails, they all fail. Read the laws of the Navy. It is only as strong as the weakest link in the chain. Until everyone picks up the gauntlet, they will continue to suffer with the rest. The “I/me” doing great mids must cease being blind to the inappropriate actions of their shipmates. This is what USNA is all about. And in response to the post further above which I will not quote, yes, the entire Brigade is at fault.</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>Just the opposite, I can not find a single instance of his showing disrespect. In the meantime, however, the Brigade continues to send disrespectful “poems” to the entire world.</p>

<p>Leadership takes many forms. The town hall meeting is more appropriate to it’s namesake. The military has a chain of command. He uses it and is forcing the Brigade to do the same. Great example of his demonstrating good leadership.</p>

<p>I think the best example of respect that Adm Fowler has shown is his actions toward his predecessor. Few can argue that he did not receive some very specific marching orders to clean the place up. He has not made one single disparaging remark toward "Uncle" Rodney. That, 2010, is leadership, learned many years ago when he was just a small link in the Brigade chain. He learned to do his part. It is a pity that the present Brigade has not.</p>

77

<p>
[quote]
the Brigade continues to send disrespectful “poems” to the entire world.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>LOL you might want to do your due-diligence and see where the poem "originally" came from. </p>

<p>PC in the Military.... hardly!</p>

<p>Glad to see the Brigade enjoying their Alumni support! Life is pretty dull if you can not find a bit of humor in every situation.</p>

78

<p>69’ I really curious if you read what you write? </p>

<p>
[quote]
The Navy is based on teamwork; when one fails, they all fail. Read the laws of the Navy. It is only as strong as the weakest link in the chain. Until everyone picks up the gauntlet, they will continue to suffer with the rest. The “I/me” doing great mids must cease being blind to the inappropriate actions of their shipmates. This is what USNA is all about. And in response to the post further above which I will not quote, yes, the entire Brigade is at fault.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The Brigade is a link in that chain; I find it remarkable that you are so quick and quite frankly, obviously obsessed to assign fault to the Brigade when the responsibility for the Academy and the success of its mission has much to do with the Superintendent and his staff and the manner in which he discharges his duties. If the Brigade is failing then the Supt is failing, period. He doesn’t get a free ride here any more than any commanding officer would. You apparently feel otherwise….Would it be safe to assume by the standards you are applying to the Brigade if the Captain of a ship changed the course followed by his predecessor and ended up running aground; you’d recommend what….Execute the crew perhaps for a failure to adequately support the change in course and absolve the Captain of all responsibility for the change and promote him? If a Captain is dissatisfied with the performance of his crew does he turn around in mid ocean and steam back to port and ask for a new crew because his current crew is failing to meet his expectations? Are these the life lessons our mids are supposed to be learning about leadership? </p>

<p>Let’s say for a moment, you’re right on the money; the Brigade is failing, they’re a bunch of maladjusted malcontents that have nothing better to do with there time then write poems about the Supt. Ok now what? We just sit around and wait for them to recognize the error of their ways? Or do we kick the lot of them out of the Academy and start fresh with you as the new admissions officer so we can be sure we keep out the riff raff next time around? Do the officers charged with the responsibility of running this institution have any responsibility for the outcome; should they take a look at the job they are doing and ask some hard questions? Is there a problem that extends beyond the Brigade? Or like the lack of food issue on that “one day for that one meal at really only one table”; should they, like you, just blame it on the Brigade. </p>

<p>There are over 4000 young men and women in the 4 classes of the Academy. They come from all walks of life, from all sorts of families and backgrounds. You could not possibly generalize about how they will or will not behave or support or not support the changes that have been implemented. In the end the only thing that will make the Brigade function as it should, function as a unit; is leadership, and that leadership doesn’t start and end with the Brigade commander. There is a cadre of officers from the Superintendent on down that bear some responsibility for the direction and interpretation of these changes through the chain of command.
The Academy is first and foremost an institution of learning; you can quibble about what should be taught. In the end in whatever form it takes; the teaching and education of these young adults represents the core of the academy’s mission; to prepare them to be officers and lead.</p>

79

<p>"GoMids.com has confirmed through USNA officials that the Brigade of Midshipmen will be in Alumni Hall on Wednesday, Oct. 10th at 8 p.m. to watch the Navy/Pitt game on ESPN. Also, 200 mids will travel to the game as part of a movement order. David Ausiello is working on getting answers to several questions regarding what would appear to be a course change from USNA administrators."</p>

<p>Grad/Dad says: Please DO NOT assume that this is a result of the posts on these sites, or the comments from parents at various forums. Let's assume this is because the efforts of the Brigade have been outstanding, and this is the result.</p>

80

<p>agreed hard work by the brigade made this happen.</p>