This thread has me wondering if everyone does code switch? If you spend most of your time in a homogeneous community, and believe some ideal standard of universally correct language exists, maybe you never feel the need. Then I thought most people do at least adjust their vocabulary for infants and small children.
adding: Probably in the long ago southern bubble in which I was raised, polite people of my grandparents’/ parents’ age and social circle didn’t really code switch. Fascinating thought to entertain me for the rest of the day
It is reasonable to expect common civility, tho increasingly rare these days. So in public, I would not use offensive language, nor discuss the gruesome details of my surgery, nor other bodily functions, and I would appreciate it if others wouldn’t, either. Civility matters.
LOL. I don’t think I adjusted my vocabulary much for my kids. Part of me agrees that they are just words and I totally understand that language evolves, but I really don’t like some trends. If all words are the same what do you say when you drop a 45 pound weight on your foot?
The “Just words” argument seems silly to me. I can describe the blood and gore of surgery with “Just words” when I am sitting next to you at a nice restaurant , but would you really not mind?
mathmom: My mother admonished me to speak “correctly” to my infant. No baby talk. That is one thing I’m recalling while thinking about code switching. I was supposed to model correct speech from the get go.
doschicos: at this point in my life, I question the common sense of everything I was ever taught. And have no opinon whatsoever on the subject of baby-talk.
Except I’m a tiny bit aggravated with one sister, who didn’t pay attention to Mother’s instructions, and now her 30 year old daughter still uses baby talk in a family setting with other adults, which is incredibly annoying to some family members of my generation. However she code switches in her work environment. And absolutely no F-bombs in her vocabulary.
I didn’t discuss the horrific effects of nuclear war in front of my kids, or sex, when they were young, or a host of other things. So yeah, there’s a time and place for everything. I talked to my kids in age-appropriate ways.
And I’ve already made the point that I wouldn’t use language that might offend people nearby, so no, I might not want to hear the details of your surgery, though you have the perfect right to talk about it, and I won’t use language that might offend you.
I know my audience. Again, for those in the back–that’s not hypocritical; it’s just good manners.
I think most here would agree that it is best to code switch and have a time and a place but to me it is “just words” still and I’m not going to get myself tied up into knots if a few curse words are thrown about. I am not going to define the people that use them as classless, unintelligent, lacking a mastery of vocabulary, or any of the other generalizations thrown out here. I do differentiate between the use of certain words and how they are used - to be emphatic, to be hurtful or demeaning, etc.
I worked in a male dominated industry for decades with highly paid, intelligent, and extremely well educated people. Such words were used on a daily basis in banter. If I had ever been shocked by their usage, I would have gotten over it a long time ago. I didn’t look upon my colleagues in any lesser way, discounting everything else, for the words that popped out of their mouth. It was an intellectually challenging place but no place for church ladies ala SNL.
One problem I see is that there really isn’t a universal definition of offensive language, even thinking about the same word. Some probably use the F-bomb as a matter of course (like Wolfe’s frat boys), some use it to shock, some use it as an involuntary exclamation.
Not too long ago, in general conversation among a goup of people, a young adult was flabbergasted when a 60 yr old used the Fword to describe the act rather than some euphemism. The elder man replied, “you just used the same word” and the youngster responded, “but I didn’t mean it THAT way!”
So now we oldsters have to be careful around some young folks HOW we use the Fword, because we surely don’t want to shock or offend them.
Excuse me if I don’t use CC’s Terms of Service as the barometer. They also don’t allow the T word.
I’m also not going to be all aghast at certain words and judge people that use them in a non-hurtful way just because society tells me they are “bad” or “obscene”.
I’m wondering exactly what society is telling us about the F-word.
What percentage of mainstream tv shows (pay channels) and films constantly use the f-word. I’m sure a whole lot of people avoid that sort of entertainment, but it seems pretty mainstream at this point in time to me. I barely even notice it any more. Is art imitating life or vice versa? I have no idea.
We don’t allow the “T” word because it means people are acting as moderators when they should be reporting the user. Has nothing to do with the appropriateness of the word.
Baloney on the baby talk being good for babies. Nonsense. Mispronouncing words and dumbing down language to talk to a baby is counterproductive. If by “baby talk” you actually mean “talking to the baby”, that’s different and should be done as much as possible, of course. I never even considered baby talk, nor was it done to me.
So you discount all the research and studies done by people with PhDs in early childhood development? Baby talk is universal across the world and has been so forever. Things develop for a reason. Feel free to read up as you’ll find plenty online on the subject.
I don’t believe in code switching, such as is being described here, to mean editing yourself for inappropriate talk. I think one should be the same person everywhere. If you wouldn’t say it on the 6 o’clock news, shout it from the roof top, or announce it from the pulpit on Sunday morning because it is inappropriate language, then you shouldn’t be saying it at all.
The only time to modify your language is when speaking to someone who is just learning English, perhaps. Or to simplify your sentence structure when speaking to a young group about a complex idea.
Also, ask the ones who know, who’ve raised highly accomplished kids and maybe grandkids. Not the “child experts” who invariably have one two year old who is being raised by a nanny. That’s what you frequently find when you look into the “child experts”. All hat and no cattle.
I stand by my post. There are plenty of studies that show baby talk - exaggerating facial features and drawing out sounds - is beneficial to the development of infants. I’m not going to post them here as they are very easily found with a simple google search.
As far as experts, I’m talking about child behavioralists who have PhDs and who study such things, not anecdotal evidence based on a few folks who “raised highly accomplished kids and maybe grandkids”. I’m sure plenty of folks here used baby talk with their children and “raised highly accomplished kids and maybe grandkids”. I find it pretty laughable that you are preaching here, on CC of all places where like Lake Wobegon all the children are above average , to other parents about what “the ones who know” do.
“Not the “child experts” who invariably have one two year old who is being raised by a nanny.”
Your ability to generalize is Olympic caliber.
Now talking baby talk to one’s pets gets on my nerves.
