Accepted and Trying to Make a Decision

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
1

<p>I was unsure where to post this exactly, but since Williams at the moment is my top choice, I decided to post it here. So here is my situation:
I have been accepted to some amazing schools (no Ivies, but that is of no consequence). These are: Williams College, Amherst College, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and UC Davis. I am looking for a major in computer science and I know all of them offer it. However, I also know the LACs don't exactly have an engineering program, and they also don't have the best connections like Berkeley or LA. Still, they have offered me the best financial aid (almost a full ride), they have an atmosphere I know I will enjoy more, and in order to go to a UC I would have to take out about 9,000 dollars in loans.
I guess my question is: Which school would be the best choice for my major, and which school could give me the best computer programming career in the future? Would taking out about 36,000 dollars in loans after 4 years be worth attending a school like Berkeley?</p>

<p>Edit: I just remembered that I got wait-listed for Harvey Mudd. I know it is the best LAC for engineering, so I am wondering if I should try to go there and submit an SIR elsewhere in the meantime. Thoughts?</p>

2

<p>It sort of sounds like you are leaning towards one of the LACs, which are great schools! Williams and Amherst both have excellent reputations in all fields and would be wonderful, especially if you are not totally set on a career path just yet. Those schools are consistently building their engineering and science departments, so they will only be adding resources while you are there. Berkeley is a large school that also has resources, but they may be harder for you to find and the competition will certainly be more intense.</p>

3

<p>There is no way that I would go into debt for either UCLA or Berkeley if you are getting financial aid at the LACs. The state of California has an ongoing budgetary issue and while they are working it through, they still warn that it can take 5 years or more to get an undergraduate degree at any of their schools. The only benefit would be if you got in state tuition and even that has been going up. The thing you have to understand about the LACs for future purposes are the strengths of their alumni networks. Williams has an outstanding mathematics department and I would bet that many students go on to computer science through applied mathematics, etc. You will also find Williams and Amherst will have a cooperative degree for Engineering (3/2 program) if that were really important. </p>

<p>Sure you should probably still push Mudd based on what your interests are, but I’m not sure what will happen with financial aid there.</p>

4

<p>that I see a no-brainer here, but this is a no-brainer. The caliber of education at Williams is WORLDS better than a UC school at this point … Williams keeps investing more and more resources in its students, while, as others have said, all of the UC schools are in the opposite boat … huge cut-backs, enormous class sizes (if you can even get into the classes you want), zero attention from professors, little support, and so on. Unless you really, REALLY prefer a big-school environment, or are 100 percent committed to majoring in engineering (which Williams and Amherst don’t offer) say that Williams is worth going into some debt over vs. a UC school. But in the opposite situation? There is simply no comparison. Harvey Mudd would be a tougher call – you’d get a much more well-rounded undergrad education and experience at Williams, but of course, Williams, as strong as it is in the sciences, can’t compete with Mudd’s offerings. </p>

<p>I note also that Williams offers a 3-2 engineering program with Columbia, but it is rare for students to take this route and I honestly wouldn’t go to Williams with this as your expected plan:</p>

<p>[Pre-Engineering</a> | Physics](<a href=“http://physics.williams.edu/pre-engineering/]Pre-Engineering”>Pre-Engineering Advising – Physics)</p>

<p>As others have said math is one of the best majors at Williams. CS is a smaller major, but strong. And just look at what some of the recent CS majors have done after college:</p>

<p>[Alumni</a> - Williams Computer Science](<a href=“http://www.cs.williams.edu/people/alumni-directory/]Alumni”>http://www.cs.williams.edu/people/alumni-directory/)</p>

<p>From the last five years alone, they’ve gone on (among many other impressive things) to CS, physics and engineering Phd programs at the likes of Michigan, UPenn, UW, Berkeley, UVA, Brown, and Princeton. So you will get a LOT more personal attention as an undergrad, have less debt, actually get into any CS or math class you want, AND you can write your ticket to a big-name grad program after graduating, including at one of the UC’s. In last year’s small graduating class, two CS majors went to work for Google and one for Amazon, so it’s not as if the big West Coast tech companies won’t hire right out of Williams. Seems like a win-win, especially if you prefer the liberal arts environment. </p>

<p>Also, while Williams has a much smaller alumni network than a UofC, it’s not correct to say it does not have the best connections, because the alums are FAR more committed to the school and far more likely to go the extra mile to try to help you out. A lot of Ephs have gone on to great things in technology, most famously Steve Case who founded AOL.</p>

5

<p>Your debt will be more than 36K. They will increase your loans in subsequent years as the stafford amounts go up each year, and costs will certainly go up as well there. At Williams, and I assume Amherst as well, they will continue to meet your full need. Ephman is right, this one is a no-brainer.
The course catalog is available online if you want to check out the course offerings.</p>

6

<p>While it is important to be able to write code if you want to be a computer science-- just remember that Zuckerberg got the classical diploma at Exeter (no mean feat) and was a classics concentrator before leaving Harvard. I write this to remind you that the innovative folks are those who see the big picture and understand the machine it perspective. </p>

<p>Go where you will have your whole mind educated–not a narrow pre-job training, which will be obsolete in a decade anyway, probably by a guy who studied English Lit as well as could write code.</p>

7

<p>Thank you for the comments. I must say they were insightful and have solidified my belief in the LACs. The reason this choice is extremely difficult for me is that I live in California, and it would be difficult for me to leave my parents and friends behind for so long (even if I came back during the breaks). Still, a college like Williams or Amherst really do seem to be a better fit for me, because they offer a more tight-knit community and more personalized help. So once again thank you for your thoughts.</p>

<p>To the comment about the budgeting here in California by GvaMom: I must say that I completely agree with you. Having lived in California so long, I sometimes wish the people would focus more on budget control than things like same-sex marriage. Our economy should be a much larger priority than some people make it out to be. True, there have been some good advancements here, but we have one of the biggest state deficits, and it seems to only get bigger with time. Also, even while having in-state tuition and the amazing Cal-Grant A, I would owe a major amount of money by the end of my hopefully 4 years, if not more. Still, living in California is not all bad. It is expensive, but at least I got a beach within driving distance from me, and the weather is amazing.</p>

<p>To Ephman: Assuming you are from Williams College as your name implies, what would you say makes Williams a better place to learn than Amherst College? I’ve heard both colleges have a mutual respect for one another as rivals and friends, but why did Williams stand out to you more?
*Others are encouraged to answer this question, also.</p>

<p>To Etondad: I am rather confused by your comment. I understand that you are trying to tell me to branch out and not narrow myself to any one view, but I am unsure whether you are advocating I go to a UC or LAC. From your comment, I must infer LAC, but I would rather be safe than sorry.</p>

8

<p>Regarding Williams vs Amherst, you should really visit if possible. I took my daughter to both schools for a whole day and evening (attended classes, meals, tours, social events etc…). She disliked Amherst to the extent, we almost cancelled her Williams visit, because the schools seem so similar on paper. Amherst seemed to actually fit her better on paper, because it’s not as isolated. But, after visiting, she absolutely fell in love with Williams - go figure.</p>

9

<p>My S’s had the same experience of disliking Amherst and preferring Williams.</p>

10

<p>Rotios, I would not say that Williams is a “better” place to learn than Amherst. They are both wonderful places to learn. As others have said, it was better for ME, but for others, Amherst would be better, so visit if at all possible (not easy from California, I realize).</p>

<p>Some of the aspects of Williams I preferred: a larger student body (around 15-20 percent bigger overall) in a college town that was all about Williams rather than focused on other schools; tutorials; Winter Study; the JA system; the tremendous combo of art and outdoor recreational opportunities; a slightly more (as I perceived it) down-to-earth, fun, quirky vibe about the institution as a whole (epitomized by Mountain Day, the purple cow, The Green Chicken, Trivia, and other such traditions). I’m sure I would have been happy at Amherst, also, but Williams just felt right for me. There is no bad choice between the two, certainly.</p>

11

<p>Amherst alum here. The schools are more alike academically than different, but the characters are different enough to require a choice. There were many in my class who chose not to go to Williams, but it was just a “feel” thing. There are students who just take to one and not the other. Personally, I would have been happy at either. But, my one kid is definitely Williams, so even in the same family there are differences. </p>

<p>I was drawn to Amherst because I could immediately start the research I wanted, and when I went, Amherst was the only LAC that offered what I wanted - now, of course, several do. So, your choice would be a “what feels right to you” decision.</p>

<p>Yes, there is a friendly rivalry and deep respect between the schools. I have worked with several Williams alums, and it was very good experience each time. </p>

<p>As for the Williams and UC choice, I cannot improve on what Ephman wrote earlier. Williams hands down! It’s only four years - you have a lifetime after to be with friends and family. Four years away is nothing, but what you would get from Williams in that four years approaches priceless.</p>

12

<p>Rotios, I can remember the same concern when I was at your point in time, but back then we only had land lines and no other way to connect up. You can stay in touch as much or as little as you want between all of the electronic and social media. The hardest part is thinking about it for the time before you actually leave, but then it will become easier and easier. Moving from CA to Switzerland was hard too, but I wouldn’t change it for anything. The time will go so fast that you won’t believe it. Yes, it is easy for me to say now, but while UCLA and Cal are good schools, as the others have said, the experience at a LAC will be one you will never forget! As regards Williams vs. Amherst, S much preferred Williams. He really liked the entries, the option to study at Oxford, and many other things there. But as others say, there are a lot of commonalities too.</p>

13

<p>I absolutely meant a LAC–that the liberal arts mind set of a liberal arts college will broaden you as an engineer-- that the hard engineering focus of a UC school would limit you in the long run. </p>

<p>Go Ephs!</p>

14

<p>I must say I greatly appreciate the comments I have received. The impartiality and the great respect from both Williams and Amherst Alumni and parents of Alumni is greatly helpful in making my decision, and it definitely shows how wonderful both schools are. A friend of mine at Williams has helped me set up a visit with Mr. Ahmmad Brown fully paid by William College’s great generosity. I will be visiting Williamstown the 23rd of this month, and I am sincerely thankful to the college and it’s staff. If all goes well, I may also visit Amherst College later that week, depending on conditions and bus transportation. I am greatly looking forward to my visit, and I know I will come back with my final decision afterwards. </p>

<p>I also want to thank all of you who are offering encouragement for moving out of California. I know I will miss my parents and friends, but as GvaMom and falconflyer wrote, the four years “will go so fast that * won’t believe” and I will still “have a lifetime after to be with friends and family.” </p>

<p>Also, thank you etondad for clarifying your comment, and I must say that I do agree with you. I definitely would love to be more than just a number, and I am definitely not closed to other options.</p>

<p>I do have some questions for all of you, once again:

  1. What are some fun things to do at Williams College, especially since it is so remote? What about in Amherst? (I know I will learn this at my visit, but it is still nice to get some information beforehand)
  2. How would you describe the student body at your school? Is it friendly and social? or will it be difficult to make new friends?
  3. If I were to attend either college, would I need to buy a car (especially due to Williams’ more rural setting)? or would a bike do just fine?</p>

<p>These are just a few lingering questions that I would definitely appreciate an answer to for any of the colleges I was accepted to, also. Thank You</p>

15

<p>My daughter is in to theater, so at Amherst we saw the student improv group perform. I was blown away by how funny, talented and creative the kids were - it was a blast. A great student audience too - on a school night.</p>

<p>At Williams we took in a student play which was fantastic.</p>

<p>Look on their web sites and see what student activities and events are scheduled the days you are there and/or email your adcom and ask for suggestions for the day. That’s what we did.</p>

16

<p>You will find the towns are very different, which contributes to the different characters of the schools. Amherst is in a large town. Large enough so that there is everything you want. For example, all types of foods / restaurants / stores can be found. Williamstown is rural as you say. Therefore, choices are more limited. There is North Adams, MA 5 miles away, but it still is not the scope of Amherst.</p>

<p>There are four major schools within 9 miles of Amherst, with two being all-girl, Smith and Mount Holyoke. There are buses that run between the schools, so no need for a car. I had a car and it did help on taking dates out to places, but after that it really just sat in the lot most of the time. It was nice to have though for a 1 AM run for a late night burger. Hum… not sure such a run that is even possible at Williams (maybe in North Adams). Amherst area has a few 24 hr college hangout places, mainly because UMass with 25k student can support them business-wise.</p>

<p>I cannot speak for the social life now at Amherst because I was there when there were fraternities. I had a blast. The students seem way more subdued now and from what I read in the school quarterly parties are less “big things” on the weekends these days. You need to go experience that for yourself. In general, tons more to do off campus (that is not outdoorsy) than at Williams. That is simply a by-product of the two environments. But, with the amount of work I had (science major), a lot of those activities went unused. However, the choices are there.</p>

<p>The above said, I have not met one Williams grad that was bored or felt they needed to get out etc. Part of it has to do with the fact you do have work to do. Party schools none of these are. Every time I was at Williams, there was more than enough things / parties etc. to do. No shortage as far as I could tell. But, I leave the full Williams social scene to a Williams person.</p>

<p>As for buses between the towns, see link. Sigh, what happened to the $8.50 fare? :slight_smile: </p>

<p>[Williamstown</a>, MA (42.714211,-73.210025) to Amherst, MA (42.3757883,-72.5195731) schedules and fares | Bus and Train | Routefriend Search](<a href=“Williamstown, MA (42.714211,-73.210025) to Amherst, MA (42.3757883,-72.5195731) schedules and fares | Bus and Train | Routefriend Search”>http://www.routefriend.com/route?from=Williamstown%2C%20MA+(42.714211,-73.210025)&to=Amherst%2C%20MA+(42.3757883,-72.5195731)&site_sequence=greyhound)</p>

<p>Just to show you that it is really personality-driven, I asked my other kid which school he rather go to and he said Amherst. So in our house, its a tie between the kids.</p>

<p>You have two great choices. Go experience and choose the one that fits you.</p>

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<p>Rotios, although Williamstown is indeed rural, there is far more going on than falconflyer gives it credit for. Remember, this is not only a great college town, but hosts a huge influx of summer tourists each year, so there are a disproportionate number of restaurants and interesting small businesses, and what is nice is that they are all basically right in the middle of the college campus, so the town is incorporated into campus life. </p>

<p>Some examples: a great independent movie theater which shows a lot of interesting movies (Images), two outdoors apparel and equipment stores, two good pizza places, two bars (one of which also serves good food), a record store, a huge, fantastic book store, Indian, Thai, and Vietnamese restaurants (although I’m not sure if the Vietnamese place is still open), the famous Pappa Charlie’s deli, several higher-end restaurants, Subway, two desert / coffee shops, a small grocery, a newsstand, and various others. Williamstown also hosts the Clark Art Institute, one of the best art museums in New England, also walkable from campus, which has a lot of interesting events and exhibits. Williamstown also has, just outside of the campus area, a very large, really great natural foods market. </p>

<p>And then North Adams is only about five minutes away by car, and has more restaurants plus MassMoca, which is the largest contemporary art museum in the country and also hosts all manner of cultural and musical events throughout the year. So it’s not like you are in some sort of wasteland, there is tons of culture and culinary options, really disproportionate to the size of the town, Williamstown has far more to offer than the average town with five times its population. I’m not saying there is as much going on as in Amherst, certainly not, but what it is a really charming town, with plenty of options for students, and everything is geared around the college during the school year (not so much the summer), which to me was a big bonus. If it wasn’t, folks (including many celebrities) wouldn’t flock there every summer. </p>

<p>There is something really charming and timeless about a graduation weekend, parents weekend, or fall football weekend in Williamstown, where the entire town is geared around students, alums, visitors, and has a sort of big event atmosphere. Or going to a basketball game where there are tons of neighborhood kids cheering on their heroes, the players on the team. It’s really special and different from a town dominated by a much larger university. </p>

<p>To answer your other question, a car is nice, but not critical. You are not even allowed to have one as a first year. Plenty of people will have them so between friends and busses and zip cars and such, it’s easy to get away for a weekend if you like. But really, between all that is happening on campus every week – and there are TONS of cultural, political, athletic, service-oriented, academic and social events, just check the weekly calendar – and what is happening in town, you’ll find that most Williams students are so constantly busy that it’s not even given much thought.</p>

18

<p>@Ephman - thanks for filling in the record. Definitely did not mean to short thrift Williams’ social scene.</p>

19

<p>One the JA’s will usually have a car, and she/he will use it to ferry their little chicks around. My S always seemed to be going off campus for something with JA’s. the entry system in most cases (there are occasionally entries people don’t click with) that there is a lot of camaraderie frosh year. Once a week there is also “snacks” where the entry catches up, and one member is responsible for providing them. IIRC the college provides the money. I think S baked a cake for one of these.</p>

<p>DS had a car for two of his four years. I gave him a cast-off, and for him it made sense because he packed and drive himself back and forth to school. He certainly managed fine without it.</p>

20

<p>Yes, agree with above posts. My daughter liked Williams much better than Amherst. Campus was larger. Amherst’ presentation was pretty ‘scattered’. Also for a LAC, it (Amherst) had no requirements for courses in various departments.</p>