Accepted And With A 1700 Sat Score!!!

<p>^^wow, we're really getting off topic now.</p>

<p>I disagree that the left is inherently more logical, at least not all the time. (There is some element of non-questioning, though, with some religious conservatives.) Abortion, for instance, is only logical if you can consider a fetus not a human being. That is not obvious. Even your last point may be illogical about letting people do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt others. Some have argued that the fall of empires (such as Greece) was due to a loosening of the moral code. Maybe that is completely wrong, but it is a question worth investigating and debating impartially. And there is nothing inherently more logical about conservative vs. liberal economic policies. </p>

<p>I don't mind that the ivory tower is generally more liberal. It does disappoint me that it seems to be a haven for liberal dogma rather than thorough, rigorous, and impartial inquiry.</p>

<p>
[quote]
what you're saying shows that you didn't really read what I said or that you completely misunderstood what I said.</p>

<p>I will make it simpler since you don't seem to understand it.</p>

<p>an Asian candidate has the "stereotypically Asian set of ECs" like math team and debate and violin.
say a white or URM candidate has the EXACT SAME ECS. </p>

<p>both candidates would have the exact same interests and contribute the exactly same "diversity of interest" to the class.</p>

<p>yet one will be given far more consideration than the other.</p>

<p>how do you justify this?

[/quote]

no. i understand what you are saying; it's just a poor argument. i said, "how would it be stereotypical of an African American applicant to have a set of stereotypical/common Asian activities?" you just don't get how that question shows how your logic is flawed and that you are missing the point of this discussion. it's common for an Asian to do do "Asian activities;" that's why they are considered "Asian activities."</p>

<p>i do not understand how an Asian doing "Asian activities" would add to the diversity of the campus more than a non-Asian doing "Asian activities." that's like saying an Asian who is really into hip hop, and African American culture doesn't add more diversity to a student body than an African American who's into the same thing. one's a dime a dozen; the other is not. </p>

<p>that said that's not the issue. the issue we are talking about right now is that too many Asian kids are pursuing "Asian ECs." (the reason why they are called Asian ECs is because they are ECs that Asians typically do.) as a result of this, a lot of Asians have similar applications. when this happens colleges have to figure out a new way to compare them to each other. i don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that colleges start to rely more heavily on test scores and grades when trying to create the Asian segment of the student body.</p>

<p>
[quote]
no, what you actually mean to say, as evidenced by your previous statments, is that you must differentiate yourself from primarily others of your race- NOT the general population of applicants.

[/quote]

i would say that you are compared with people from your region of the country, and of course your race. your region, because, if that was not the case, hardly any midwestern/southern kids would get into top schools. by race, because schools want to create an adequately racially diverse student body. within the various pools, colleges seek to find diversity of interests, socioeconomic class, etc.</p>

<p>
[quote]
so should Asian varsity football players get exponentially more consideration than African American varsity football players?
or does differentiating yourself from your race only work against certain groups.

[/quote]

do you want to continue having a serious discussion, or not? since when were we talking about football? last time i checked football and education were two totally different things.</p>

<p>i hate when people bring this point up when talking about AA. it's such a stupid point to make. it's much easier to objectively figure out who the best football players are than to figure out who the best students/leaders/future leaders/inventors/thinkers/etc. are.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Somesenior gets it. Tyler and Newjack, do not.

[/quote]

just curious... what exactly is it?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Tyler, I did not "selectively" read anything.

[/quote]

well then you've been rather lax with your quoting what Tyler and I have been saying.</p>

<p>
[quote]
My argument is, as has always been, that AA is a sham based solely on race.

[/quote]

lol. this doesn't even make sense! why is it a "sham?" i think the reason why you think it is a sham is because you don't understand its purpose or how it works.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I have provided concrete examples with links or references.

[/quote]

ehhh i was going to let this one slide but look at what you said, "They turn away thousands of poor white kids that apply. Why? They're white." this must be one of your numerous "concrete example with links or references," right?</p>

<p>
[quote]
I appreciate Newjacks attempts, aside from his constant reference to being "dramatic", yet without concrete evidence, his versions simply do not correlate with what is seen in actual practice.

[/quote]

LOL! ummm... i think i know a lot more than you do on this topic. i mean you said, "My argument is, as has always been, that AA is a sham based solely on race." what kind of position is that to have on an issue like Affirmative Action?</p>

<p>also, how does my version not correlate to its actual practice? my understanding of AA comes straight from an admissions officer from Notre Dame, from researching Affirmative Action lawsuits and Supreme Court Cases (mainly the from the justices' opinions), and from college websites' FAQ's.</p>

<p>EDIT:
i agree with collegealum314 on the politics thing. but NearL is correct on some stuff too though. there is a definite correlation between being educated and being liberal.</p>

<p>"i would say that you are compared with people from your region of the country, and of course your race. your region, because, if that was not the case, hardly any **midwestern/southern **kids would get into top schools."</p>

<p>Oh great. Another incorrect generalization. Wow. If you think that the East and West Coast has a monopoly on smart people you are sadly mistaken.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Oh great. Another incorrect generalization. Wow. If you think that the East and West Coast has a monopoly on smart people you are sadly mistaken.

[/quote]

uhhh... wow. hmmm... California and Northeast schools generally have the best schools in the nation and the most competitive applicants. this one is not debatable.</p>

<p>So murgo, if your argument that AA based on race, which is really redundant because AA is the part of college admission that is based on race by definition, is a sham is NOT implying that racial diversity is worthless, by what means is it a sham?</p>

<p>And i think its funny that the only people who "get it" are the ones who agree with you</p>

<p>Well, the east coast does have a monopoly on arrogance. That is beyond debate.</p>

<p>Chicago is no less competitive than New York. (For example, Illinois had 15 US physics semifinalists to New York State's 13.) Just because they don't make us dress like proper English schoolchildren like at Exeter doesn't mean there aren't plenty of very strong schools in the Midwest. They just aren't as old and don't have the same history. There are plenty of smart people in Texas as well. The school districts in Michigan and Wisconsin are very strong too. I don't know as much about Ohio and Minnesota.</p>

<p>Ja, here in Minnesota all of our children are above average.</p>

<p>(And the women are strong and the men good looking!)</p>

<p>
[quote]
also, how does my version not correlate to its actual practice? my understanding of AA comes straight from an admissions officer from Notre Dame, from researching Affirmative Action lawsuits and Supreme Court Cases (mainly the from the justices' opinions), and from college websites' FAQ's.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Newjack, your pompous attitude is certainly grating. And your inability to understand that your utterances are bigoted does not instill any confidence in your arguments. I fully realize your justifications are that they are directed at acceptable targets, such as Asians...because, that is exactly what you are doing. They are bigoted, none the less. I do not need a lecture of how you think things work nor how you've done your "research". Admission officer you say? AA lawsuits, eh? Well, that certainly is the be all and end all, isn't it? Since you consider yourself so well read, above it all, in tune with what AA is all about, why don't you give me your answer of why your reasons above are quite absurd. Even a retard like me can think of several right off the top of my head. </p>

<p>As for you Tyler, what part of discrimination solely along racial lines do you not understand? AA was meant to tip the scales towards the URM if all else is equal. That is not what is happening. Racial preference is weighed quite heavily in favor of URM where their applications are certainly nowhere near equal to whites or asians. I've given you links. Did you even bother analyzing or even looking at them? Are you purposefully being thick?</p>

<p>What I find funny is this accusation of "selective reading" from two people who are the biggest offenders.</p>

<p>"Ja, here in Minnesota all of our children are above average.</p>

<p>(And the women are strong and the men good looking!)"</p>

<p>Well, there you go. Then it's settled!</p>

<p>
[quote]
Newjack, your pompous attitude is certainly grating. And your inability to understand that your utterances are bigoted does not instill any confidence in your arguments. I fully realize your justifications are that they are directed at acceptable targets, such as Asians...because, that is exactly what you are doing. They are bigoted, none the less. I do not need a lecture of how you think things work nor how you've done your "research". Admission officer you say? AA lawsuits, eh? Well, that certainly is the be all and end all, isn't it? Since you consider yourself so well read, above it all, in tune with what AA is all about, why don't you give me your answer of why your reasons above are quite absurd. Even a retard like me can think of several right off the top of my head.

[/quote]

this is what i mean by being so dramatic. why can't you just have a normal discussion? you are throwing around the word "bigot" without knowing what it means (just like you're arguing about Affirmative Action without really knowing what it is and how it works.). sorry if i come across as pompous, but i'm pretty sure i have a better understanding of this topic than you do. (you did call yourself a "retard" after all...)</p>

<p>
[quote]
As for you Tyler, what part of discrimination solely along racial lines do you not understand? AA was meant to tip the scales towards the URM if all else is equal.

[/quote]

this is why i honestly don't think you know what AA is. AA was meant to benefit all minorities and women. (i'm not sure if you know this but women and Asians haven't always been well represented in colleges.) it had nothing to do with "tipping the scale," since that implies that it gave them an unfair advantage. it was meant to level the playing field, which definitely needed to occur.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Racial preference is weighed quite heavily in favor of URM where their applications are certainly nowhere near equal to whites or asians.

[/quote]

lol! you're saying i'm bigoted!? you're basically saying that no African American, Hispanic, or Native American student has grades, test scores, essays, etc. near that of Asians and Whites, which is simply just not true.</p>

<p>again, the fact that you think it is a huge factor shows how ignorant you are about this topic.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I've given you links. Did you even bother analyzing or even looking at them? Are you purposefully being thick?

[/quote]

i'm assuming you're a high schooler... right? if that's the case, i think you should know that not everything on the internet is reputable...</p>

<p>
[quote]
Did you even bother analyzing or even looking at them? Are you purposefully being thick?

[/quote]

[quote]
Again, thank you for explaining it to me. However, in this search for "racially diverse student bodies", schools are not accepting students that have all the credentials to be accepted into them except one...race. Any way you want to dress it up, that is certainly discrimination. Or am I "wrong"?

[/quote]

ehhh... what "credentials" are you talking about? in case you didn't know, colleges try to admit students they know can graduate...</p>

<p>
[quote]
<a href="https://www.collegedata.com/cs/conte...rticleId=30024%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://www.collegedata.com/cs/conte...rticleId=30024&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="https://www.collegedata.com/cs/conte...rticleId=30014%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://www.collegedata.com/cs/conte...rticleId=30014&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="https://www.collegedata.com/cs/conte...rticleId=30019%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://www.collegedata.com/cs/conte...rticleId=30019&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="https://www.collegedata.com/cs/conte...rticleId=30001%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://www.collegedata.com/cs/conte...rticleId=30001&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="https://www.collegedata.com/cs/conte...rticleId=30022%5B/url%5D%5B/quote%5D"&gt;https://www.collegedata.com/cs/conte...rticleId=30022

[/quote]
</a>
that's because using that site to make an argument is stupid! did you bother to read what the profiles said? both of the White kids with the great stats, both admitted to not taking their applications and essays seriously!!! well jeez talk about being "bigoted." a White kid admits to putting little effort into his applications and is rejected by all of the ivies he applied to and you say he didn't get in because he's White? lol.</p>

<p>i am really glad that i have had the opportunity to discuss this with you. otherwise, you may have gone throughout life without having your views challenged...</p>

<p>Info is now out here (again) for anyone interested in reading it. Trying any longer to 'convert' someone via an internet forum is absolutely a lost cause, and after a certain point, the futility only begins to undermine the actual arguments.</p>

<p>There's interesting and useful information in this thread. It'd be nice to end the mud-slinging before it's locked or deleted.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Racial preference is weighed quite heavily in favor of URM where their applications are certainly nowhere near equal to whites or asians.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>what does nowhere near equal mean? As I've said, and as the colleges have said, all applicants they admit are qualified. The whole concept of "more qualified" was invented by you, not the college. So in what respects are they nowhere near equal?</p>

<p>Having an intelligent discussion with murgo on this topic?</p>

<p>You're braver than i am. I gave up a long time ago. Do yourself some good and follow the lead.</p>

<p>Great job! I think your extracurriculars helped out, those are pretty awesome. ^^</p>

<p>I guess you're living proof that there is no "perfect score" formula for admission. I don't know what that's going to mean for the rest of us, but congratulations!</p>

<p>gman,congratulations. I can see what Stanford saw in your stats...leadership quality all the way.</p>

<p>wow--you give me hope.</p>

<p>good job!</p>

<p>congratulations on getting in...i am confident that you'll succeed mightily at stanford!!!</p>

<p>OMG thats really inspiring and I know this is late but I hope you take everything negative that people have said and prove them wrong :) congrats!! Don't let the haters bring you down</p>

<p>Congratulations!I have a friend got into U Penn with 1700 SAT score last year too!so that means,grades mean sth.but dont mean anything!Miracles happen!</p>

<p>
[quote]
Congratulations!I have a friend got into U Penn with 1700 SAT score last year too!so that means,grades mean sth.but dont mean anything!Miracles happen!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No...all it means is that there are very few hard-and-fast rules to this process, and that there are always exceptions to the norm. It also means that if you really think you have something to offer to a school, and something that will force them to take notice of your app, then you should follow your gut, no matter what "Chances..." threads might suggest. </p>

<p>(I'm assuming that the quote was supposed to read "so that means, grades mean something, but scores don't mean anything!" If I'm misinterpreting, then just disregard this!)</p>