<p>Not your MCAT score. For someone who hasn't taken the MCAT, I'm trying to estimate a standardized test score/percentile threshold below which it would be unrealistic to pursue pre-med studies. (I'm trying to talk someone out of medicine).</p>
<p>O.K… With more caveats than I can list (test-anxiety, ADD, ESL, etc,etc,etc), I’d say if a reasonably prepared kid can’t hit the 80th percentile on either test they’d have a hard row to hoe making it to med school. 25-26 ACT, maybe an 1150-1200 CR+M SAT. The test-takers are just such dramatically different populations. Top college students take the MCAT vs. whole lots of high school kids of varying ranks (some other than top ;)) taking the SAT and ACT.</p>
<p>Now, even though I posted that above, I know of one child who has progressed phenomenally in her academic abilities from high school. From a student who in the 9th grade was on a fast-track to vocational school instead of any college to a kid who would come close today to being competitive for a DO school. About a 3.2-3.4 college GPA , science major, at a decent college…this kid found her academic groove somewhere along the way. With a post bacc or SMP , a whole lotta MCAT prep, and the wind blowing out of the park on MCAT day…she might could do it. </p>
<p>And she was well below the scores I posted. It’s hard to judge “heart” and “desire”. Sometimes it can make up for a K thru 9 lack of academic focus/interest, if the natural intelligence is there. She has made herself into a really good student by willpower and “want to”.</p>
<p>Curm’s guidelines are probably pretty reasonable. You have to be aiming for about the 75th percentile on the MCAT to go on. The MCAT is a lot harder than the SAT, but then some students improve over time and so on, so you have to leave some room for improvement too.</p>
<p>So if the MCAT is harder (tougher pool) but some kids legitimately improve relative to their peers, then maybe you can say that the two effects cancel out. Or something.</p>
<p>Situation: a 30ish respiratory therapist told H (MD) that he feels “called” to become a doctor. He was looking for H’s support/encouragement. H said “Great! Go for it!” H also suggested that I talk to the guy’s wife (he is married with 7 children, so far). My honest impression: This guy works at a hospital and wears scrubs. He is tall, good looking, and confident. He has been mistaken for a doctor many times. He’s seen a lot of doctors at work and thought, “They’re not so hot. . .I could do THAT.”</p>
<p>I don’t know much about his academic background. I’d guess his ACT at 24-25ish (I know his parents/siblings and they are sort of "slightly-above-average-but-overconfident-types. . .) I don’t know if he has an undergrad degree–pretty sure some pre-med coursework will be needed. Granted he does have some medical knowledge and clinical experience which may count for something. He says there are “scholarships for non-traditional students.” (I’m thinking that 1-5K won’t get him far. . .the family has no $) Yes, he wants a better living, but at his age, starting out with a large family and so many years to go, I’m thinking “living hell” for the wife and kids. Or he’ll invest in pre-med and very likely wash out on the MCAT. I think he seriously underestimates what it takes. I don’t want to crush his dreams, but I don’t want him to set himself up for disappointment/failure, either.</p>
<p>When colleges brag that 70, 80, 90% of applicants from their schools get accepted by med schools, a lot of people don’t understand that those are the students who survived pre-med to become applicants. Colleges do some serious weeding out in those freshman/sophomore classes. Seems like only a quarter of those who come in as pre-med make it to the application process. And those kids that “can’t cut it?” Plenty of them have 32+ACTs/2100+ SATs. They are not weak or marginal students at all. Yet they don’t make it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You have to be aiming for about the 75th percentile on the MCAT to go on. The MCAT is a lot harder than the SAT, but then some students improve over time and so on, so you have to leave some room for improvement too.[/quopte]</p>
<p>Perhaps a better question is what % of those ACT/SAT scores below ~32/2100 score the median or better on the MCAT? (I would guess not many…heck, I would guess not many at 32/2100 either, but I’m just guessing…)</p>
<p>[/quopte]
??? Drinking a little early today, blue? 
</p>
<p>I don’t know about your numbers. I think a few students really get on their game in college. At least, I’d like to think so.</p>
<p>Anyone ever seen these studies, or something like it?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[Abstracts</a> Online](<a href=“http://www.naahp.org/abstract_fourflat.htm]Abstracts”>- NAAHP)</p>
<p>
Jeez. lol. I’m gonna buy a lottery ticket.</p>
<p>I mean, this works partly because an 8 isn’t going to get anybody into medical school. You may as well say that 100% of kids with a 21 on the ACT do better than a 3 on the MCAT.</p>
<p>It’s helpful to know there’s a link, of course, but this particular example is hardly useful as a predictor.</p>
<p>bdm, I was assuming they meant an 8 on a/one/singular MCAT science section, not on the whole cat. :)</p>
<p>Haha – I know. But a 24 isn’t getting anybody into medical school either.</p>
<p>Maybe not Asian or Caucasian for an allopathic school, but maybe DO.</p>
<p>I can’t speak to the ACT scores of successful medical school applicants, but I know that in my daughter’s vet school program most successful applicants had ACT composite scores in the 29-36 range, and that’s a lot higher than the 75th-80th percentile.</p>
<p>
And if I had answered the posit you raised in your answer , I would have said 30-36 ACT’s for most successful Caucasian or Asian applicants at US allopathic med schools. </p>
<p>The OP asked what I assumed was a different question
I took that to mean …“don’t even try it”. I think we have to lower the bar for that exceptionally motivated student who blooms later than the others (post ACT).</p>
<p>^Yes, understood.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I woulda guessed that the number would be higher, say 33+.</p>
<p>Note, the abstract I posted is 10 years old.</p>
<p>On its premed website, UCSD states that there is a (high?) correlation between SAT-CR and MCAT-VR. Essentially, UCSD says any kid below <600 on the SAT better start hitting the lit books bcos that background ain’t gonna cut it for the MCAT. I’ve found other premed college sites that have also referred to a correlation between CR & VR, but yet cannot find the actual study/data…</p>
<p>I had roughly a 1500/1600 and a 2200/2400 overall on my sats at the beginning of last year(as a senior in high school), however, I took a practice chem/bio test (2 weeks ago) from the examcracker book and I was only scoring a 9-10/15 on each section. I am going to have to work really hard to bring it up.</p>
<p>So I don’t think Sat scores/MCAT scores are directly related.</p>
<p>I don’t know, blue. In SAT terms , I agree with the under 600 part of your post. Completely. But really, once a kid gets past 600, or certainly past 650, I think they can do college level work anywhere given the proper work habits, study skills, reading speed, etc. In the highly self-selecting worlds that are CC and sdn, we’re not gonna meet many sub 30 ACT kids.</p>
<p>I also agree that there is a good chance there is a substantial correlation between MCAT verbal and SAT CR.</p>
<p>Colleges, don’t trust the scoring on those. Take the freebie real MCAT online under test conditions to get something of a baseline. It still won’t be perfect but it will at least be better than what you have.</p>