ADD/EFD - Request SAT extended time? LD in College?

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<p>Sorry in advance -- my thread is long.</p>

<p>The Pre-College LD thread doesn't get as much traffic as the Parents Forum, so I have posted here. Hope that is ok.</p>

<p>Here is our situation: 10th grader, ADD with Executive Functioning issues. All classes are either honors or AP. He does well on standardized tests. He currently does not have a 504 or IEP because he is in private school. His school is structured so that many accomodations aren't needed (already provides him extended testing time and small classes (6-15 per class)). He was classified ADD 4 years ago and is under the care of his primary M.D.</p>

<p>We need to determine if we should get a private psych/ed evaluation completed soon to use it for requesting extended time on standardized tests (specifically SAT/ACT/subject tests) and to have LD requirements in place for college. This is not covered by insurance and would be a substantial cost for us. So, my concern is the benefit worth the cost? Is there really even much benefit?</p>

<p>As I understand it, the process for requesting extended time on standardized tests is very long. Colleges require the testing not be more than 2 years old. To use the same psych ed full evaluation for both purposes gives us a very small time window for psych ed eval and given the time to get an appointment for testing, we really need to decide this soon.</p>

<p>For arguments sake let's assume:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>He would have stats that fit the 50% range of accepted students in top 50-75 LACs without any accomadations for testing. </p></li>
<li><p>Not a great financial situation. He would need significant FA or need to get into a generous school that meets full need, preferable without loans or school with significant merit.</p></li>
<li><p>National Merit scores in his state are high. Toss-up if he could meet the cut-off. Since it is a toss-up, the cost of psych-ed testing would be worth it if we could get testing done and extended time approaved before Oct.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>In your experience, do you recommend pursuing private psych ed, request extended time for SAT/ACT, LD in college? Or restrict college search down a few notches?</p>

<p>We aren't prestige driven, but restircting search to lower schools will :</p>

<ol>
<li><p>chop out some generous schools.</p></li>
<li><p>His ADD/EFD presents with a hypo-focus for subjects of interest. I don't want him under challeneged and even LESS focused because he is bored.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>My biggest fear as a parent is that I am "limiting" him because of his ADD. Put in context, I have another child who is asthmatic and an athlete. He can play sports because we as parents have gotten him medical specialist and on-going well-visits to manage his condition. I want to provide my ADD kid with the best "management" for his condition -- but what is "best" in terms of life skills? Is it best for him to learn to not expect exceptions and get things completed in "normal" time as prep for real world?</p>

<p>FWIW - At this time colleges that interest him are Colorado College (which if accepted I know he could handle without accomadation, but not sure I could afford), Pomona (which I question if he could be admitted or handle, but oh that generous financial package) and Oberlin. Trying to casually get him more interested in Pitt (which we are in-state).</p>

<p>Thanks if you've read this far! All advice is appreciated. I just really didn't expect to be thinking college strategy this early.</p>

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<p>You are not limiting him because of his ADD unless you don’t give him the opportunity to have adequate documentation on file so he can reach out for accommodation if he needs them. Denying accommodations to kids that need them does not teach them not to expect exceptions, it teaches them that levels of achievement well within their range of ability are out of reach no matter how hard they try. It is an extremely defeating feeling, and it KILLS ambition and motivation. Many, many, many kids who had accommodations in school go on to have happy and successful careers, you don’t have to worry about that. While your S may not need accommodations now, when you have a documented LD the time to get that paperwork in place is not when he needs it-- then it’s too late. It can take weeks to arrange accommodations, weeks to get into doctors, weeks to get the paperwork-- meanwhile Junior is failing a class because he needs accommodations and can’t get them until the administrative work is finished. Get the paperwork done now, and if he doesn’t need it don’t worry about it. It is worth it. LD kids are high-risk students and they need a safety net. If he doesn’t need to use it, great, but the time to find out if he needs it is not in the middle of a college semester or during the SAT.</p>

<p>As a disclaimer, I am not a parent, but a college senior with ADHD and LDs and president and founder of my schools Learning Disabled Student Association. My LDs went undiagnosed and I went without accommodations until after I had failed my first semester of college, once I was diagnosed I managed to transfer from my community college to Umich. You can take what I say with a grain of salt since I am not a parent or an educator or a doctor. However, I am not just some random person with no experience here. I speak from experienced based on my own life, that of my friends, and what I have seen for members of my association here on campus. Trying to force a kid with LDs to be “normal” is not what is going to give him the skills to make it in the real world, that mindset cripples kids that otherwise could have made it. Forcing someone to climb straight up and over a mountain without the proper gear is not more productive than trying to find a trail through it-- and that process of finding unconventional ways up and around obstacles is THE life skill that LD kids need to make it in the real world, and they’ll never learn it if they’re taught to pretend they’re “normal.” You wouldn’t ask your asthmatic to go without an inhaler. As an asthmatic with LDs, I am telling you the two are not as different as you might think. :P</p>

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<p>My DD was Dx with a processing issue in middle school, she received extended time throughout HS on all timed tests- AP/SAT/school/etc. I am convinced she would not have graduated top of her HS class and gone to a top school without that boost. I am also convinced it only allowed her to show her true potential (her SAT score with double time was statistically the same as her non-LD sisters without extra time, not a perfect score)</p>

<p>At UC Berkeley she was not afforded any extra time on anything as the standard changes post HS to something like:</p>

<p>“significantly worse than average” people rather than not working to ones potential.</p>

<p>In simple numbers, if your IQ is 150 and you process at 120 that is more than 2 Std Dev below your potential, so you would get extra time, but to be 2 std deviations below an average person, your score would have to be below 80. This pretty much precludes anyone who is not physically hampered as a bright LD kid can generally compensate better than the “80” level. Does that make sense?</p>

<p>DD did get many B+/A- marks in university due to the time constraints, but she learned the material and her years of HS extra time had helped her hone her test taking skills. She is now having an extremely successful med school adventure.</p>

<p>I have been told that some private schools will continue to accommodate a student based on their prior accommodations, so that is something to ask about.</p>

<p>Also, it took a great deal of persistence for several years before my DD got tested. I was lucky to be very involved at our school which had a lot of special ed kids and we got a new school psychologist who had an LG/gifted child of her own. The prior psych never took the time to spend an afternoon testing my DD. I persisted because I knew ‘something’ was wrong. Every teacher recommended her for gifted classes, but she did not qualify, which I knew was wrong.</p>

<p>DD was really frustrated until her Dx, then she applied the tools and felt much better about herself and about life. I am still in touch with that school psychologist and she uses my DDs progress in her county wide training to remind people what a huge difference testing can make to the LD/gifted kid.</p>

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<p>It sounds like your son would benefit from the extended time on the testing but I will warn you that I had a very difficult time getting the CB to approve an accommodation that was not already in place at the school. So the testing itself may not get you the accommodation if there is no 504, IEP or equivalent in place. Maybe someone who has been down that path can help you. </p>

<p>By the way, just because your son has accommodations on the SAT does not mean you need to pursue it in college but you may choose to go down that path in case he needs them.</p>

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<p>We applied for, and rec’d, SAT accommodations with no problem last year. We have just applied for ACT accommodations. My take, after hanging out on LD threads and reading the application instructions, is that one will have a more difficult time getting testing accommodations if there has not been an IEP/504 in place the last 3 years. </p>

<p>However, this may just mean the school needs to provide more documentation. It sounds as if they are giving accommodations anyway. The SAT wants testing w/i the last 5 years; the ACT 3 (I think-check) All colleges we have checked want it within 3. I think you may be in a difficult position without testing/IEP or 504.</p>

<p>We have had independent psych testing and also school testing 3 times. In our experience, there was an incredible difference between the two. If there’s any way you can fit it into your budget, I would highly recommend private testing. As others posted, you want this in place before you need it. You could try applying with CB/ACT w/o the testing, and then get it if necessary.</p>

<p>The college disabilities offices I have talked with did not respond as Berkeley did above, although they are not bound by IDEA/IEPs like public schools are. I think it’s a really good idea to have all that documentation in place before college entrance. Good luck!</p>

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<p>^My public university did not respond like that, either.</p>

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<p>Yeah, I was really surprised by Berkeley’s attitude, I mean, hey, it’s Berkeley, shouldn’t they be inclusive?</p>

<p>It was very difficult to get info and difficult to get straight answers. I worked my way through various experienced people and was trying to get the answer to redoing DDs testing. As in, if I redo the testing and the numbers are EXACTLY the same, will she qualify for extra time? First it was incredibly difficult to get anyone to understand that we did not expect a change and that we did not want to pay $1k-2k for testing if it would be a waste.</p>

<p>And then in giving me the answer, they were rather uninterested. I found it to be a real surprise and I am experienced in special ed advocation as I worked in it a bit on our school district plus had advocated for my DD for a number of years, successfully, so it’s not like I took no for an answer too quickly or gave up after one conversation.</p>

<p>DD and I decided it was time to learn to adapt. But we tried again for consideration for the MCAT testing, once again including working with that original testing psychologist who has moved up in positions over the years, but is still willing to follow up old cases, no luck, no extra time, for the same reason that Berkeley said.</p>

<p>I feel blessed that she squeaked by with an average score and was able to get into a well ranked medical school. And, don’t think we don’t enjoy the fallacy of the magic of standardized test scores. DD’s roommate scored 25% higher on the MCAT, but has yet to score as well in real life medical school. Not that she is not doing well, but it’s rather amusing to prove that there is not an incredible correlation.</p>

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<p>It’s nice that the private school has been accommodating but it leaves your child without a documented plan. Any chance they could do that? Are the accommodations offered by the school essential to your son’s success?</p>

<p>One other note, which has been touched on already: colleges are not obligated to offer the same level of accommodation as public high schools. Many colleges leave it to conversation between student and professor, even when there is a functioning disability office, and the result often depends on the discretion of the professor.</p>

<p>If you do deal with a disabilities office, or, rather, your son does, there will be a need for documentation even greater than for College Board.</p>

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<p>Are you sure he even needs extended time? Most ADHDers do not, if fact, we tend to get tests done faster than normals. I am in the process of getting my d a neuropsych evaluation as she is going to college. SHe has been homeschooled and I have structured her environment in such a way that she has done very, very well. But we need the evaluation so she can get a few accommodations in college- single room (only a bit due to ADHD, even more due to other issues), no evening exams (her medication runs out after about 6 pm), and a spellchecker. But she did fine on the ACT and finished almost every test before time and no questions were left undone. That has been a similar story with my oldest who was a commended PSATer but would have NMSF if we hadn’t moved to Europe and myself so many years ago.</p>

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<p>Since you already know he is capable of handling the PSAT without accommodations, why go through hoops trying to get them for the SATs? Without a history of LD, your son would probably have a very difficult time getting extra time. What does your GC think?</p>

<p>The bigger issue is college. College is overwhelming for many kids, even those without LD issues. I’d make sure you pick wisely, and be certain wherever he goes, they have very significant support. </p>

<p>My own son, who had extended time on his SATs, went to a midsize top 20 university on merit scholarships. They “promised” support, but my son still failed some basics like scheduling issues and not understanding he had to go to recitation classes. He went to their support center instead and got zeros for every quiz he missed. His most successful experience was at a no-nothing LAC that was school far below what his SAT would indicate and near home with a good support system and I was in touch with.</p>

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<p>At the university where I teach, there is a Coordinator who works with students who have learning disabilities. Once he determines, based on past testing, whether students are entitled to extra time or something else, he sends a letter to the instructor listing what the student is entitled to. As instructors, we are not told what the student’s diagnosis is, in the letter; instead, it just says that the student has a learning disability and is entitled to extra time etc. We are not allowed to ask struggling students if they have any learning disabilities. It is up to them to disclose any disabilities to the coordinator. I would suggest that your son contact the equivalent office at his college before he comes to campus as a freshman, so that things will be in place when he arrives.</p>

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<p>I think I would talk to the guidance counselor and say ask if they think your child would need SAT accomodations, and if so, could they formalize the informal accomodations that they have been providing so it won’t look like this request is coming out of nowhere.</p>

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<p>It is my understanding that the College Board frowns on requests for extended time for students who have not been using it regularly in a classroom setting. Given the nature of your child’s school, I am certain the guidance counselor has tremendous experience with such things. My 9th grader attends a private school that sounds similar to your childs. The counselors are terrific.</p>

<p>A good psychologist with lots of experience can help you address some questions about types of colleges ,etc.</p>

<p>While expensive and not covered by insurance, we have found our educational psych evaluations invaluable in planning for our son.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all replies! I just kind of paniced after the 10th grade PSAT scores - he’ll be borderline for NM state cut-offs; extended time could be the key.</p>

<p>Just to clarify:</p>

<p>Public School district tested him last year and in 2002. They put in writing that he is gifted, but they refused to put a 504 in place because 1. He is not a public school student and 2. He works above grade level.</p>

<p>Private testing in 2006 (that is when the ADD inattentive was diagnosed). Current school received a copy of the 2006 testing and has followed all recommendations. So, no IEP that is “officially” reviewed annually, but the school has been providing accomadations and I believe they would work with us in relaying that to College Board. </p>

<p>I’ve decided to have a face to face with his high schools college counselor (which won’t be until January/early February). Meanwhile, I’ll make an appointment for private testing (they are about 2 - 3 months out). it can always be canceled.</p>