Any experts in LD diagnosis and carry over to university?

Parents Forum
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<p>Has any one's LD diagnosed kid been told that the disability is not severe enough for the university to count it?</p>

<p>My child was Dx with a processing disorder, approx 30 points difference between overall IQ and processing speed. She received extra time on timed tests only throughout high school, and generally needed it. She never finishes timed tests. With extra time, her SAT score was the same as her sister's, the sister not only did not have extra time, but finished early, as she would with most any timed test. With extra time, she still did not finish the SAT.</p>

<p>I forward the information to her university and they have informed me that we need to retest as the Dx is more than 3 years old, which I expected, but the testing can be $1000 or more. The reviewer also said that they do not care if there is a significant problem between "potential" (overall IQ) and the area that is low, unless the area is below average.</p>

<p>So, do we pay the money and retest? Do we skip it and figure it is time to run with the big dogs and the GPA is simply going to have to suffer?</p>

<p>Any experience and thoughts would be appreciated.</p>

2

<p>I might be able to help you a little bit, but probably not as much as others can.</p>

<p>It's pretty normal for colleges to request information from within the past three years. $1,000 (USD) or more, however, seems completely inflated. If anything, I get the feeling they're trying to scare you away from retesting so they don't need to give accommodations. As most students with disabilities, myself included, will tell you, this is not uncommon. My current college is amazing and has never given me any trouble with my accommodations for a physical disability, but I've heard absolute horror stories from students elsewhere, especially when it comes to learning disabilities.</p>

<p>I would contact your daughter's high school and see if she can be retested through them for a reduced fee. Even though she has presumably graduated already, they can likely help you make arrangements. Your town also might have an educational psychologist who can help you with this.</p>

<p>Also, I just feel the need to say this as a student with a disability: Your daughter isn't about to "run with the big dogs." She IS one of the big dogs, and she deserves any and all accommodations she needs in order to prove that. I know you already know that, but if you allow yourself to fall into that frame of mind, it can only hurt her (and you). This is not something to let slide.</p>

<p>Have you considered the possibility that there might be another learning disability aside from the processing disorder? If they won't recognize the processing disorder -- which I think is unacceptable and makes me want to dig out my ADA copy and do some research for you -- there might be something else that's causing these problems for her that hasn't been considered yet. I don't say this because I want her to sneakily get accommodations, but because there really might be something more there that hasn't been discovered yet. Often, if someone has one learning disability, they have another, and the university might be more receptive to that one (if it exists).</p>

<p>I really hope you get this worked out. I'm rooting for her, and I know she'll do well. :)</p>

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<p>First of all, I respectfully disagree with the last response to your email concerning cost of evaluations. I've paid for a few of these over the years, and the cost was never less than $1,700. (I live an hour north of NYC, and I believe that is the typical cost in the metro area. You can easily pay more.)</p>

<p>Your daughter receives extended time through accommodations which are part of the protections of her 504 plan, which is under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA 2004). You can learn a lot about these protections at <a href="http://www.wrightslaw.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.wrightslaw.com&lt;/a>. ANY institution of learning that receives federal money (and that is the vast majority of colleges and universities, both private and public) has to operate within this law. Possibly the university you are considering doesn't receive federal funds? If it does, they cannot tell you that "they do not care if there is a significant problem between "potential" (overall IQ) and the area that is low, unless the area is below average." That is not only an offensive stance, but it is discriminatory against gifted persons with learning disabilities, and that is against the law (if they accept federal funds).</p>

<p>Good luck,</p>

<p>Alex</p>

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<p>To add to MsAlex's response...</p>

<p>Yes, testing is expensive, but worth it...to see your child receive the accommodations he/she needs and is entitled to. In our area, $2,000+ is the norm.</p>

<p>To respectfully clarify MsAlex's final statement: "That is not only an offensive stance, but it is discriminatory against ANY (not just gifted) persons with learning disabilities, and that is against the law (if they accept federal funds).</p>

<p>To SOMEMOM -- We've experienced similar problems with accommodations for our moderate IQ, fairly high achieving (because he really has to work at it with lots of support), slow processing speed, LD/ADD child. Schools wouldn't even write up a 504 (oh, it's just a gentleman's agreement anyhow, they'd say), and College Board wouldn't grant extended time (like Dx has always said he needed; College Board said that despite the very slow processing speed, his high ahievement compensated and gave him an overall score commenserate with his IQ...oh, duh, now that's recognizing hard work and commitment to task...no wonder so many young people are discouraged by the educational system). So, the course we chose to take was to quit banging our heads against the impossible (more fruitless appeals and more upset for our son who'd see them fail and more SAT testing...enough is enough) and instead to very carefully select the colleges to which DS would apply. We're picking the colleges that have solid disabilities programs, but just in case DS still doesn't meet their criteria, we're making sure too that those same colleges offer solid support to all their students. We call it the double safety net plan. Also, while we've been told that DS's cognitive ability (IQ) is probably a lot higher than can be measured by IQ testing and that with robust accommodations he could probably achieve that higher level, we've opted instead to aim lower...to work with the hand he's been dealt (namely scores) and have him apply to only strong matches and safeties. This way, we hope he'll be accepted into a solid, small LAC with good support services, a heart for its students, with my DS on the high end of the curve under the worst of his scores. That to us sounded like a good way to ensure his academic safety, build his skills and self-esteem, keep him relaxed and happy, and prepare him whatever course he choses post grad.</p>

<p>Lots of luck. Don't give up. Go with your gut feelings about what's most important to your child. In our case, we wanted college to be a warm, inviting, happy, and safe experience. I believe it's so much more difficult for children like ours to leave home, and so much more difficult for us as parents to let go and entrust them to an unknown, and sometimes unfriendly, system.</p>

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<p>I guess I must be in the minority then, because my testing at age 6 was covered entirely by the town through the Board of Education, and my later testing cost ~$500 (USD).</p>

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<p>Yes, there is little if any cost if the testing is done by the base school and school system. However, if you're doing it on your own, it's pretty expensive.</p>

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<p>I really don't see why people who have above average IQ and above average processing speed think they should get extra benefits. I fail to see how they have a learning disability when their ability to learn is greater than most people.</p>

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<p>Delete Delete</p>

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<p>I think you've misunderstood. Extended time and other provisions allowed under 504 (or the Americans with Disabilities Act) are for people who have a serious, measurable processing deficit, which keeps them from "showing what they really know", especially on timed tests. There are some very smart kids who, nonetheless, have a severe processing problem (meaning they are slow on tests).<br>
Because they may be actually intellectually gifted, they may manage to score "average" on a timed test -- while the fact of the matter is that they knew much, much more -- but just couldn't complete the test within the time alloted.<br>
My son for example has testing in the top 1-percentile for math and verbal abilities (with extended time). He has extended time because he has shown on evaluative tests that his processing is within the bottom 5-percentile. If the point of a test is to find out what he knows -- or get a sense of the level of intellectual thinking he is capable of -- then the only way you can try to measure that is to allow him extended time.</p>

<p>Alex</p>

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<p>VTBoy- here is an example of why the extra time was a realistic adjustmnet. D tested for GATE, the gifted program and was turned down (qualifying score was, I believe 1 std deviation, either 120 or 132 (I do not recall) A few years later, D was tested fully, through her school, so for free, but it took three years of asking to have her tested, and low and behold, her IQ was MORE than 2 standard deviations past the norm and she waaay more than qualified for GATE, but her slow prosessing speed messed things up so she could not test, under timed conditions, to her full potential.</p>

<p>So, if D has an average IQ (100), she would process in the down's syndrome range- 70. I do not expect her to choose a profession where she will need extra time accomodations, but, I do not feel embarrassed to ask for accomodations on artificial educational circumstances, like the SAT. With extra time she still did not finish either section of the SAT! Yet, her score was the same as her sister's, as I would have expected. She did not receive an unfair advantage and get a 1600, she received extra time which allowed her to score in the range we predicted. I believe that is the idea of accomodating LDs, not unfair advantage, just the ability to show what you can do. There are thousands of jobs where she will not have to be hjeld to a 90 minuted time limit on reading passages, but by being able to work to her potential in school, she can feel postive about herself and find a great job, hopefully.</p>

<p>The school in question is a University of California. The rep told me that accomodations would only be made if scores are below average- which did not jive with the info I have always been given by special ed people.</p>

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<p>VTboy,
This has been a debate for years. Many (most?) institutions/testing services provide accomodations when the performance discrepancy is significantly below the mean for age/education level/etc., not just when the score is discrepant from the student's own intellectual mean.</p>

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<p>MsAlex however many people are saying even those who can score well above average on time test should get extra time as long as there is any difference between their IQ and processing speed, regardless if both are well above average. A person who is in the top 1% for IQ and top 10% for processing speed should not be thought of as having a LD, but many people claim they do.</p>

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<p>Jasman I agree and that is how it should be done.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Your daughter receives extended time through accommodations which are part of the protections of her 504 plan, which is under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA 2004).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The above statement confuses two different laws, Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended, which is a civil rights statute, and the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, which is a grant-making statute.. </p>

<p>Section 504 plans are issued under the authority of Section 504. Individualized Education Plans (IEPs) are issued under the IDEA. Section 504, forbids discrimination in access to federally assisted programs on the basis of disability. The IDEA details the requirements for school districts who accept these funds and specifies how they are to handle children with 13 or 14 (can’t remember which) specific types of disabilities. The latter law ONLY applies to schools, not to colleges and universities. Section 504/ADA covers all recipients of Federal financial assistance.</p>

<p>There is a lot of misinformation here. I strongly urge all parents who are sending children with a disability off to college to read this pamphlet, which was prepared by the Office for Civil Rights, US Department of Education. OCR is the Federal enforcement agency which, generally, deals with civil rights issues at the postsecondary level.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/transition.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/transition.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>That those individuals with a bone fide disability will double their score with extra time, while those who are not truly learning disabled will actually lower their score with double time (ex. changing right answers to wrong because of overthinking).</p>

<p>Double time does not give any advantages to those who are truly learning disabled while those non learning disabled folks who are trying to fool the system and ask for double time, are actually fooling themselves.</p>

<p>The moral is that extended time equals the playing field and any college that doesn't recognize the tremendous gifts of motivation and persistance that learning disabled students bring to their studies and the world are doing themselves and society a huge injustice.</p>

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<p>my oldest daughter never needed a 504 or IEP because she attended a private school that made accomodations and offered support without them. However for her to recieve extended test time she did have an evaluation ( which was paid for by our ins- billed to ins was about $400.)
She received accomodations in college with this eval that was taken fall of senior year, now that she is looking at grad schools, she will need another revaluation, we will either go back to last education pysch or she can have it done at her college- but I don't expect it will run more than $500-$600.
My younger daughter had a complete eval last fall involving several different test forms and it was $800.</p>

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<p>I would not get a re-evaluation until your daughter decides what schools she intends to apply to or you could even wait until she makes up her mind where she will go. When she does, forward the information to their disability service office and ask them if it will meet their requirements for granting of whatever accommodations she will be requesting. If it is acceptable then you have saved your self some money. If it isn't acceptable, ask them why and what tests they would recommend. Focus on those. Do this several months in advance of the fall semester so you can get the testing done in plenty of time if needed. </p>

<p>We had a full evaluation for LD done in the DC area five or six years ago and it cost $1,600, but it was accepted both by ETS and his college.</p>

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<p>Where I live (and work) time extensions for testing are only granted through a 504 accommodation plan or an IEP. Regardless...the school district is supposed to review these plans annually. For an IEP, reevaluation is mandatory at least once every three years. For a 504 accommodation plan to be continued into college, the information MUST be current diagnostic information. Your school should be providing this evaluation for you as an update of your child's 504 plan...and to verify that the disability still exists. Call the person who is your child's case manager (if the student has a 504 plan there must be a case manager), and request (in writing) this evaluation. Public schools cannot charge you for this evaluation.</p>

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<p>Thumper:</p>

<p>The purpose of an evaluation is to determine whether a student has a disability which requires an accomodation in order for that student to obtain a free approrpiate public edcation (FAPE). A school district is not required under Section 504 to provide a free evaluation which can be used for college attendance.</p>

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<p>she just wanted the reeval so that she could have accomodations when she takes the GRE.
While the SAT allows use of a calculator, the GRE does not unless you have specific parameters that have been defined by professional evaluations.</p>

<p>Our experience is that her private college was actually pretty good about accomodations, she had the testing within the previous three years for the SAT, and the college just wanted a letter from the psych saying what things might be helpful.
She doesn't really have a lot- an ADD coach- and access to tutoring, Reed often has unproctored testing for everyone, not just for her, so extended time on tests wasnt' a problem.</p>