Admissions Read for a DIII Athlete?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Being a music parent, I am totally out my league on this one. </p>

<p>The coach at our son's potential number one choice top 20 LAC has offered to submit his transcript and ACT report to admissions for a read. This is a school where he is probably in the high part of the middle 50% for stats. He is planning to also send his resume because he has the potential to be a solid contributor to college music ensembles(the coach is aware of this) and has received some minor national recognition in music, and a few academic honors. </p>

<p>We are wondering if it is also acceptable to include one's AP scores on the resume. He received a 5 and 2 4's in Bio, Calc and English Language respectively. His school does not include any scores on the transcript but son feels that while not perfect, the Calc and Language scores show that he is solid in his two areas that he was weakest on the ACT. He received 30's on both the math and English sections. (I was reading somewhere else on the board that students are recommended to not report any AP's less than 5 so am hesitant to have him include these.)</p>

<p>What does getting a "read" actually mean, and are there any admissions risks in doing this so early? </p>

<p>Our son has not visited the school yet. Based on his research this is a highly desirable team and school for him. He would not be considered an impact player on the team and will still have to try out for a starting position.</p>

<p>I appreciate any wisdom or advice that can be shared.</p>

2

<p>pianomom- My son's background is music as well so my expertise is there.</p>

<p>I do have a daughter that was a varsity soccer player at a Division III school and I'll give you the background.</p>

<p>Her undergrad program was very specialized and her school options limited, basically only 2 in New England. One was a State U DivI (oos for us) and the other a small LAC, Div III.</p>

<p>She was a solid, consistent student in HS, somewhere around 3.7 GPA, decent SAT's, top 20% of large class in a suburban HS that annually sends 2 or 3 to Ivys, MIT, top LAC's. She played varsity soccer all 4 years, a utility starter, played all positions equally well, but was not a standout in any one spot. Again, solid, dependable and consistent.</p>

<p>She applied and was accepted to both. She had no desire to play Div I soccer. Both aid packages (both merit and need) were remarkably similar, and generous for her stats. She chose the LAC because the academic program and school size was a better overall fit.</p>

<p>On her LAC app she had indicated an interest in playing varsity soccer. We did get a call from the coach who overviewed the program and did make at least one if not two follow-up calls to her. We also met briefly with him on our visit to the school.</p>

<p>I don't feel her soccer interest influenced her acceptance, although the coach indicated in all probability she would start on varsity. Her stats were at the high end for her admitted program and her merit aid reflected that.</p>

<p>She did start as a midfielder, but ended up as starting goalie for the season when injuries in the first two games side-lined both the starting and back-up goalies for the season. She recorded three shut-outs and ended up with the Coach's Award as a freshman, but thankfully was able to return to mid-field the rest of her undergrad years.</p>

<p>She enjoyed being able to play as a varsity starter, and graduated with high honors.</p>

<p>One added benefit as an athlete was being able to move-in a week early and being able to avoid the congestion of move-in day even as a freshman.</p>

<p>Don't know if it it helps but it's one experience.</p>

3

<p>My son was a recruited athlete at several LACs and did get an admissions read prior to his application at his top choice school. He sent his transcripts, SAT scores etc to the coach who then took it to admissions. Based on their read of his credentials they said to the coach--"there are no red flags here"---they did not tell the coach that he would definately be admitted. In addition, there was signficant communication with admissions by my son's college counselor in support of his admission</p>

<p>Once the coach gained this information he then told my son if he applied early decision he would support his admission or "tip him" with the admissions office. The coach will not waste a tip on a player that is not academically in range or does not project to contribute significantly to his team</p>

<p>The end result was that yes, my son was admitted ED to his first choice school. He will play his chosen sport and get a great education.</p>

<p>Would he have gotten in w/o coach support? Maybe, but it would not have been a slam dunk as his stats put him pretty much in the middle of the 25th-75 th centile of applicants.</p>

4

<p>pianomom - My son was in contact with several coaches of top LAC during his college search. He sent a copy of his transcript and a resume. He did not send AP or IB scores. What he got back was "I sent your information to the admissions folks and we agree you would make an excellent student here. I can't tell you you will be accepted, but you're a bright kid - read between the lines and don't screw up your senior year". He did get into those schools, but he was in the top end of their ranges and probably didn't need much pull from the coaches.</p>

5

<p>Thank you violadad and Momof2sons I appreciate hearing your experiences. It seems in this case he has nothing to lose by sending in his credentials. At least we will have some idea whether or not he should fly out and visit. If they think he is marginal then we'll know he should find some safer schools.</p>

<p>Momof2sons, about how long did it take to hear back from the coach?</p>

6

<p>There are lots of threads on the customs and strategies of DIII recruiting and applications. Probably some of those have a lot more specific information and experience than this one so far.</p>

<p>My experience with this is entirely vicarious -- children of friends, friends of children, with some confirmation from what I've read here.</p>

<p>I don't see any downside at all in having the coach get an admissions read, and some downside in not doing it. If you do it, your son shows the coach that he is interested, and that he trusts him. That's good if what he's looking for is help from the coach and a healthy, long-term relationship with him. If your son doesn't do it, the coach is going to see that as either a lack of interest in the college or a lack of trust in him, and there's no way that is going to help your child.</p>

<p>When he goes to admissions, they are likely going to tell him one of four things: Shoo-in; Solid candidate, we'll probably take him if you really want him and we might take him anyway; Marginal candidate, we'll only take him if you say you can't live without him; Fuggedaboudit. The coach will probably (I hope) be fairly honest with your son about where he stands, except that he may not say your son is a shoo-in. If he's in either of the top two categories, the coach will probably recommend that he apply ED and offer to put in a good word for him with the admissions people, with appropriate cautions about their independence. If he's in the third category, the coach will make a decision how much he wants your son relative to other kids with similar admissions prospects, and will either (a) say pretty much what he would have said in the first two cases -- if you apply ED, I'll try to help -- but maybe with a little more urgency, or (b) not push your son to apply ED, although maybe encourage him to take his chances.</p>

<p>The way I think this usually works is that the coach probably has one or two (maybe more for football) kids for whom he can guarantee admission if they are at least marginally qualified. For everyone else, the coach can indicate interest and maybe some ranking of them, and the admissions committee will take that into account and try to make certain he gets a decent number (but not necessarily all) of the kids he wants. It probably doesn't matter much to the admissions staff whether this happens at ED or RD, but it matters to the coach, because he would love to see the kids he wants committed to go there. And realistically, he probably gets a higher percentage of the kids he convinces to apply ED admitted. It's also very strategic for the coach deciding for whom to use his "get in free" cards. He doesn't want to waste them on someone who might be admitted anyway, he doesn't want to waste them on someone who might go elsewhere, and he doesn't want to make his decision until the last possible moment (i.e., long after the applications are due). </p>

<p>So there are some fairly strong incentives for mild deception by the coach. He wants every prospect to believe he is solidly behind them when maybe he isn't quite. That's just life. I'm sure some coaches handle this with a lot of grace and integrity, and others fall short a bit.</p>

<p>Of course, you'll have to make your own decision about ED, for which finances come heavily into play. It's beyond the scope of this answer, except that if your son really likes the program and the coach, it's going to be hard to say "no" if the coach tells you to trust him.</p>

7

<p>Excellent description, JHS. </p>

<p>Pianomom: If your son is doing a resume, he could list "AP Scholar" under "honors and awards" or similar category. (My understanding is that 3 or above on any 3 AP exams qualifies one for this honor.) You don't have to order score reports, but I would include the 3 exams and grades - a 4 is good enough at many colleges to earn college credit, and is something I think admissions people would be happy to see.</p>

8

<p>You have a lot of good advice here but one thing I'll throw in is that a coach will be less likely to support a kid who's time and attention may be on something other than his sport. I would not emphesize music at this point. If you get through to the next step you can add in the music things on the app.</p>

9

<p>collegekid- Unfortunately, they are often mutually exclusive and one has to put the priority where the long term rewards are greatest.</p>

10

<p>Thanks to all for your advice and comments. </p>

<p>I do have to respond to collegekid as well. Our son attended a summer camp at one of the top 5 DIII schools in his sport and was told by the coach there that finding the right fit was the most important element of the search. He suggested mentioning both his music and science interest in all initial contact with coaches, and likewise, mentioning the sport to potential private music instructors. The coach felt that division III is where students should be able to have multiple interests, and also told our son to make his ultimate choice based on the non-sport factors as injuries occur and interests change. He would have loved to play for that coach but the school was not an academic fit.</p>

<p>As our son has been making contacts, he has found that the coaches are more accepting of the music than the music professors are of his involvement in a varsity sport.</p>

11

<p>Pianomom - we found the same thing with the coaches and S's involvement in music/politics. LAC and their coaches seem to be looking for "the whole package".</p>

<p>One word of caution (probably not relevant to your S, who sounds like he has lots going for him), but a friend's D was heavily recruited by schools (top BBall player in the state). She was a good, but not top student and was getting courted by top-top schools. Summer before her senior year she badly tore her ACL - coaches stopped calling. She did not get into those top schools. She did get into a good LAC, started a new sport that takes advantange of her drive and general athletic talent (but easier on the knees) and is happy as a clam.</p>

12

<p>Pianomom
Basically when my son first met with the coach at his college he took a "sports resume" which listed his athletic accomplishments, academic info including GPA, SAT scores, and course schedule. The coach then wanted to see his transcript
This was in the spring of his junior year--the coach then scouted him at various showcases over the summer and early fall. Then he wanted official transcripts and score reports that he shared iwth admissions. From that point to when the coach got back to my son it was about 2 weeks or so.
Once we got the green light, DS submitted his application ED and he got in</p>

<p>My son will be playing in one of the NESCACs and honestly, none of the coaches would really talk with him until they saw his grades and board scores. They don't want to waste their time on recruiting an athlete that is not admissable</p>

<p>It was a huge learning experience for us and we are thrilled with the outcome
Good luck to you</p>

13

<p>I don't at all disagree with finding the best fit and the best balance. I am a DivI (ivy) athlete and have a coach that hates any commitment other than the sport. It's the coach that pulls for you and numbers you on his list, you need to get to know these people as they do have different philosophies. Even playing DivIII sports is a huge commitment. I was heavily recruited by DivIII schools, which are actually pretty similar to the ivy league, and find that coaches want your full attention there too, though just through friends, I have only been at the 1 school.</p>

<p>Also, pay attention to the power of the sport at the school. Football, basketball, hockey and depending on the school a few others have far more pull than say swimming or fencing. The most important thing you can do is be seen at as manay camps as pssible.</p>

14

<p>Skiers-mom, momof2sons, and collegekid,
Thanks again for sharing your varied experiences. This is all helpful. </p>

<p>Collegekid, congratulations on your accomplishments. I am truly amazed by student athletes who are able to develop both their athletic and academic talents to such a high level. I wish you continued success.</p>

15

<p>My son was heavily recruited by top DIII LACs and academically selective DI schools. He applied ED to his first choice (an Ivy) and was admitted. The coach who was the most interested was a NESCAC coach. As others have said, the coach will get a pre-read from admissions, and an ED application gives you the best shot for strong coach support. My son was injured right before senior year, and was still strongly recruited through fall of senior year. In fact, he didn't even get to train for his sport freshman year in college and is just now coming back from surgery as a rising soph. </p>

<p>I agree that the coaches of the top programs aren't going to waste their time pushing for an applicant who may not be fully committed to the sport. They only get a few "tips" and they want to play their cards wisely. It varies from sport to sport and school to school. Some "lesser" sports have high profiles at certain DIII schools, and coaches with a lot of tenure and close relationships with admissions deans can make miracles happen.</p>

16

<p>Some really good insight and advice here. You have to shop for a coach in a very similar manner to shopping for a school.</p>

<p>Is the Coach a job hopper? How long has he been at the school? Is his sport important at the school? What has the team's performance been?</p>

<p>In other words, do you think the guy will be there for a while?</p>

<p>Primary thing is though, do you trust the coach? DS had been recruited by some D1, DII, and DIII schools.....Several of the coaches, I could tell you that I totally trusted. A couple....I didn't trust, and it proved to be correct in retro. IE, I had a coach tell me what a final FA Package would look like....when it actually came, it was materially different. If the guy didn't know, he should have said, "approx between this range and this, blah blah blah".... Not ..."this is what you can expect". I didn't trust the dude to begin with, and so I can't say I was terribly surprised when the package didn't look like what the guy (who sat in my family room and told me) had said.</p>

<p>One of the other head coaches who sat in the same seat 3 days prior....said, "trust me". I did. He was trustworthy. He is also a man (along with his coaching staff) that you truly WANT to have your kids associated with. In the end, particular "position" coaches may have more of an impact on the "sport" aspects of your sons or daughters experiences (playing time, position, whether they travel with the team...) But a guy with integrity, will (almost) always surround himself with other people of integrity.</p>

<p>Good luck to you</p>