<p>Oops! Probably THE most important thing! Is....finances. Will she need financial aid or merit aid to be able to attend some of the schools on her list? If so, then the safety and matches should also be financial safeties...those she could attend even if she did not get any merit or financial aid. Some of these schools are need only aid schools and her list will need to accomodate these if she's not eligible for any need-based aid, but requires merit aid to be able to attend. If no aid is needed, then my advice is as stands.</p>
<p>Swarthmore as a safety? That seems odd to me, no matter what the student's qualifications.</p>
<p>It might be helpful for your D to eliminate the pre-law requirement, since looking only at schools with some type of formal pre-law program will take out schools that might otherwise be great choices for her.</p>
<p>And more importantly, top law schools do NOT want kids to major in pre-law programs labeled as such. Good law schools tend to feel they can teach you what you want to know, and do not view pre-law programs favorably. </p>
<p>As your D currently plans on going to law school, she should view undergraduate school as an opportunity to major in whatever truly interests her, knowing that any major is a fine major for law.</p>
<p>Yeah, I don't get Haverford or Swarthmore being a safety for anyone, and they are more selective than most of the ones on the Match and Match/reach groups. Seems puzzling to me.</p>
<p>If your D loves Amherst so much, she should apply, and at least see if she will be accepted. As to feeling like a number, that is NOT what it is known for. They don't do interviews, but they want to get to know who you are from the essays. D is a rising jr there (study abroad) and was sal, not val, didn't cure cancer, and wrote about her love of roller coasters (really showed who she was, along with the academics). There is a point system to judging apps, and your D, with her stats, should score at the top, and then her essays and what she can contribute to the class that they need will be the final criteria. Visit, and you will find it is not #'s. If your D has an idea what she wants to study, go online, and e-mail the profs, and I know she will get a response back. In fact, H just recently implemented a program based on Amherst's LAC interaction with students to improve their undergrad interaction. Is it easy to get in? Certainly not. Does your D have a chance? Of course. Visit and mark it down as a reach, as it is for everyone, and Good luck to you both!!!!!!</p>
<p>ejr1: thanks for the info on Amherst--I will pass that along to D. She has 2 profs she wants to meet but was worried that they wouldn't be accommodating. Much obliged.</p>
<p>Prof's at Amherst, at least in my experience, are extremely accommodating to talk to prospective students. If they are tied up at the time of your visit, I would think that they will arrange for your D to see someone else.</p>
<p>By all means do not be discouraged from trying for a "dream school" like Amherst. As you can see by my D's list I didn't force her to prune some of her reach schools off. You could consider trying Amherst Early Decision. Personally I liked the school and the community very much.</p>
<p>I also agree that professors at most colleges are more than willing to talk with prospective students though the start and end of the semester is not the best time. They are probably mostly all on vacation for the next few weeks too.</p>
<p>I very much agree with the earlier post about eliminating schools by location or the single-sex ones. For example, does she really want to to go the schools that are either a plane ride or a very long drive away in the Midwest? If NYC is not of interest that would knock out Barnard and Columbia.</p>
<p>The grouping was great but I would move Haverford and Swarthmore up, as noted, and I think Weslyean, and Vassar are statistical twins (especially for girls) so would move them into the same group. With those alterations:</p>
<p>Safeties:
Bard (getting tougher each year but they have Early Action which can take the pressure off...)
Bennington
Smith
Bryn Mawr
Franklin & Marshall
Dickinson
Rochester
Mt. Holyoke</p>
<p>Matches:
Barnard
Wellesley
Brandeis
Grinnell
Oberlin</p>
<p>Matchy/Reaches:
Vassar
Wesleyan
Northwestern
Georgetown
Haverford</p>
<p>Reaches:
Swarthmore
Amherst
Williams
Middlebury
Chicago
Cornell
Columbia</p>
<p>While I know you are trying to get rid of choices, if you drive to the Midwest you could return via NY State and check out Hobart, Colgate, Hamilton, and Skidmore (I assume you may be in that area to see Cornell). Drew in NJ is a fine safety. In Pennsylvania if you are visiting Dickenson and F&M you might consider Muhlenburg which has a fine theater program.</p>
<p>If she rejects Bryn Mawr, for being single-sex, you could drop Haverford. I would suggest that the combination of those two communities results in a "college" about the same size as Wesleyan and Vassar without only perhaps a slightly more female ratio than the other two. That and the Five Colleges around Amherst might be reasons to keep the single-sex colleges on the list.</p>
<p>Thanks ctParent2006: </p>
<p>Conn was a school she added to and then removed from her bigger list more than once--she liked it initially--and then I don't even remember what turned her off. I told her we could visit on the way back from Boston--time permitting. </p>
<p>U Chicago is currently on top of the list. Life of the Mind appeals to her. She likes/admires smart people but prefers intellectual and artsy people.
D is the kind of kid who squeals over course catalogues. She is interested in so many things that sometimes I think she may explode. Her self-selected summer reading list included Nabokov, Kafka, Camus, Rawls, and Arendt. </p>
<p>She also likes the new program at F&M--Scientific and Philosophical Studies of the Mind but worries that the school is too conservative and too fratty. Lovely admissions counselor tried to convince her otherwise. I don't know. If everyone else rejects her maybe she could find a niche?</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
<p>BAfromBC,</p>
<p>Conn might appeal to her slight conservatism but she has quite a few other great choices already.</p>
<p>Chicago (and Hampshire ironcially) was the best tour/info session we went on. My kids didn't like the neighborhood and the distance. Personally I liked the intesity of Swarthmore and Chicago...I am told Columbia hsa some that we be didn't vist as they didn't want to go to school in the city.</p>
<p>I think she can find a niche at F&M but you are unfortunately very correct about the fratty nature of the place. I was not in a frat and found my niche there years ago and it has a very nice new theater, as I suspect you saw. Both my kids, both were accepted, were very concerned about the frats and that is why it was toward the bottom of their lists. Sorry to have to agree with them and your D.</p>
<p>Ctparent2006:</p>
<p>Re: post # 28.</p>
<p>Thanks. I agree with your assessment. Swat is not a safety!</p>
<p>She looked at Skidmore. Back and forth on it. One of her friends really wants to go there and my D doesn't love-love it so I don't think she'd apply--she doesn't want to hurt her friend's chances. She eliminated Colgate, Hamilton & Hobart after much research and talking to college reps. Muhlenberg is a safety for many people at her HS who like theater. She's not interested in the least. Oh well...</p>
<p>Thanks ctParent2006 for the confirmation on F&M--nice school--probably not for her</p>
<p>hayden:</p>
<p>I hear what you're saying about Law Schools...but</p>
<p>D has a very specific interest that these particular liberal arts legal programs fulfill. </p>
<p>These are not true "pre-law" majors. They are more philosophically, morally, and ethically driven. They're more about critical thinking in a legal context.</p>
<p>She wants access to mentors/internships/research in the area of capital punishment--her calling is to be an abolitionist--hence the appellate law interest. She's a member of the NCADP and the ACLU. She would never consider dropping this criteria...</p>
<p>But thanks for your advice--I will discuss it with her.</p>
<p>to OP, I see why Amherst is on top of your list. It is indeed a great place and I think will suit your D very well. Best of luck from an Amherst parent.</p>
<p>BAfromBC,</p>
<p>It sounds like you have considered all the obvious, and non-obvious, possibilities. If Grinnell stays on the list there is always Reed and Macalister.</p>
<p>I was curious about her ID...and no Boston schools...BC or Tufts etc..</p>
<p>I agree with the post regarding law schools taking kids from all sorts of majors, F&M is good at that but.... If she is so heavily into policy issues did she consider Tufts, George Washington or even Americn (the last two would be much easier to get into if more or need in that category).</p>
<p>Now for some tactical notes....</p>
<p>You will have to check the current rules but I think you can apply Early Action to both Chicago and Bard as well as Early Decision somewhere. As Chicago has its own application it will have to be written apart from the Common App. </p>
<p>Most things went as planned for my two kids and the outcomes were great, though, not always what was expected or hoped for by all parties involved. I didn't push my D as much as my S to get her essays done early. That was an error on my part as her ED school (deferred) was Brown and they also have their own application. She didn't start on her Common App essays until Christmas break, she was quite down after not getting into Brown (despite my warnings...). I should have persuaded her to do those well before hearing from Brown.</p>
<p>Getting an EA acceptance from Bard (Hampshire too) cheered my son up considerably after his first choice (Vassar) deferred him ED in December. If you can have an EA school she is likely to get into it might help her should she try ED somewhere and not get in.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>CtParent2006: Had to draw the line somewhere-- Reed & Mac too far! She liked both.</p>
<p>I'm a BC alum--she will not go there--would not be good for her. As a Catholic school it censors material that it deems inappropriate. Hard to read lit with so many ...'s because sections are excised. Most people don't know this about BC--Censorship--it's a well guarded secret. I had a prof (who was my mentor) clue me in as a frosh--he sent me to Harvard to buy original unedited texts. My D is too liberal & activist--she'd go crazy there. Students & profs are cool--administration is not.</p>
<p>Looked at Tufts--D didn't like their Psych program.</p>
<p>Took GW & American off the initial list for various reasons.</p>
<p>She has a local "true" safety--honors program-- that I didn't post because this site is top tier centered and would be of no consequence to anyone posting on CC. It has EA and rolling admissions. She would basically get a free ride there because of merit $. It's the place she'd go if everything went haywire.</p>
<p>D has already started app essays. Has a couple of rough drafts she's working on. Hasn't decided which way to go yet for Common App. She's a talented writer--has won academic awards for English (also French and History.)</p>
<p>She's trying to get as much done as possible before school starts. She knows she will be inundated. She's going to Fla next week for much needed vacation. When she gets back it's the big push for apps and summer AP assignments.</p>
<p>At her HS, all app materials must be submitted to Guidance by 1st week in Dec for RD so she knows procrastinating is not a good idea.</p>
<p>Wants to EA at Chicago. Loves the Uncommon App!</p>
<p>Maybe EA Bard? Still on fence.</p>
<p>Maybe EA Georgetown--depends on other candidates' intent at her HS. She's weighing her chances against her peers.</p>
<p>Haven't decided on ED because of Fin Aid situation--looking at several need blind schools & some which may offer large merit award to her.</p>
<p>Thanks for the good wishes. We'll most likely need luck...Buzz is...class of 2012 will be most competitive admissions season yet.</p>
<p>Bard and Chicago!! It is hard to believe these would appeal to the same student. Spend a day or two at Bard and/or Vassar. She will either love or hate them and that will help to decide the fate of a bunch of similar schools.</p>
<p>BAfromBC - I think I see where your D is coming from (and agree with her. . . . . ). So let me come at this from a different perspective. She may find that legal studies regarding the death penalty do not reach as broadly as her horizons. Her interest, as you describe it, might encompass morality, philosophy, criminal justice and sociology, and not be limited to legal studies at all (as an undergraduate, I mean). Perhaps she should focus on schools with strong philosophy / sociology majors, with a law school attached. My S went to GW, and loved the access to law school professors who do at times teach ug courses. (He's starting law school in September.)</p>
<p>Actually I have to say that U of Chicago seems right up her alley! Also Georgetown (philosophy more than anything - the law school is not actually on the main campus), Penn, Cornell and perhaps NYU. Good luck.</p>
<p>I would really think twice about the state school as safety. For a kid who pines for Amherst and UChicago, a state school is likely to be anathema. It's worth looking for a safety she loves, sounds like it should be small, alternativey, on the East Coast if possible or else Midwest but close to an airport:) or at least a city like Chicago where she can do some civil liberties internships etc. Perhaps Grinnell is it - my kids hate the idea of LACs despite my urgings so I have no expertise in that area. But a safety should be a safety she can get enthusiastic about if all else fails, not just a place she can go. That's the hard part of this process - if you love Amherst where else can you love?</p>
<p>hayden: Thanks for your input. D did the research and sought out programs to match her interests. Not all of the schools on her list have legal programs, but many have comparable programs in sociology, as you mentioned. Chicago, Cornell, and Amherst set the gold standard, really, for these types of law programs. D is also a bit of a philosophy geek, so she looked at the philosophy programs at every one of these schools, too. She spent hours and hours and hours on these websites looking at all of the course offerings and professor biographies. It seems that all of these schools have something to offer her, just some more than others. It's really just a matter of who's going to accept her and whether the social climate suits her. Thank you again for your considered opinion; it's appreciated. Best to your son at law school.</p>