<p>Hello everyone,
I desperately need any advice anyone can give on my situation, as for me it is quite a desperate one. Basically I just recently graduated out of HS in NY, I applied and was accepted to a university in the United Kingdom (the University of Sheffield). I've always been determined to live and study there and after staying in Oxford for a month last August really couldn't see myself staying in the US and being happy. Also, for the career I want to pursue, Zoology, the UK has better graduate employment possibilities, curriculum, and more of what I want to focus on. Sheffield also has tons of study abroad options and I'd recieve my Masters in four years.
Well I had figured that it'd be no problem recieving a student loan to fund my studies (I had also expected to get more scholarships, but only wound up recieving a $4000 one from Sheff), but now I am running into some issues. The complete cost for funding my education for a year is $35,500 (including tuition fees, living, accomodation, etc.). I'm in the process of recieving a Fed Stafford Loan from Sallie Mae for the max amount, $7500, and intended to get the rest via private loans. My father agreed to be my cosigner, seeing as I have no credit history, but for some reason we're not sure of, they rejected him. He makes over $80,000 a year (been a Corrections officer for over 18 yrs), owns a car and a 4 family apt. building, and makes his payments on time, etc. Not seeing the problem, I applied with another loan company, the College Loan Corporation, but they have also rejected him. Though we're in the process of seeing what is wrong with his credit, I am on a stringent time limit because I need to apply for my student visa (which requires you to show proof that you can fund your studies). I'm trying to look around for other cosigners, but most people either don't have the credit history or don't want to take the risk. I'm also limited to loans that accept international applicants.
This is kind of just a desperate plea for any advice anyone might have. I can take a gap year, but truly I have been waiting the majority of my life to study in the UK and don't want to delay it even further (since I'll likely have the same issue when I returned from traveling anyway). I also have this dream of saving orangutans from extinction, yes I am aware of how pathetic this is starting to sound, and want to get on with it as soon as possible.
Sorry if this was worded terribly, I'm just really upset and am at a loss. I've been planning this for many years so it wasn't some rash decision, I just didn't expect to run into such difficulties finding a loan or a cosigner.</p>
<p>$35,500 COA - $4,000 scholarship = $31,500 a year that you have to fund with loans? </p>
<p>I'm sorry, but that university is too expensive for you. You won't be saving orangutans (a very worthy goal) nor anything else if you take on that much debt; you'll be working every minute of your post-grad life to try to service the more than $126K you'll have in debt when you graduate, and it won't be at relatively low-paying conservation work, but at whatever the highest paying jobs you can find are.</p>
<p>Please rethink your plans. College here, grad work in the UK, perhaps. Not what you were hoping to hear, and I'm sorry about that, but $126K debt is simply insane. Have you worked out how much the monthly payments will be for that much debt? If not, you're not quite done with your planning.</p>
<p>I've always been determined to live and study there and after staying in Oxford for a month last August really couldn't see myself staying in the US and being happy</p>
<p>Happiness is not getting what we want but wanting what we get.</p>
<p>I agree that it is foolish to take on that much undergrad debt.
Many schools here have study abroad- in the UK as well.</p>
<p>Id suggest taking a year off- and building a credit history.
How my daughter did it was she bought a computer that she already had the money for, but took a loan through the company and paid it off monthly.
You could do the same thing with a car or anything else you were going to buy anyway.
Your father may have more debt than you realize, and that was why his signing for the loan was rejected.
I don't think it is advisable for parents to take on so much debt for their childrens education.</p>
<p>the private loan companies are tightening their restrictions -- one of the reasons why you dad might have been rejected. Although emeraldkity has good advice on how to build student credit, I don't think that one year of credit will help you get private loans for $24,000/year.</p>
<p>You have to look at it from an outsider's standpoint -- you will be out of the country (making it darn hard to collect payments if it comes to defaulting on the loan) and planning on a career that is notorious for low-pay and poor working conditions. You aren't a good risk for a bank -- I wouldn't be surprised if the fact that you will be attending school outside the US to have been factored into the denial.</p>
<p>I agree with owlice -- you can't afford this school. The denial of the private loans was probably a good thing. You need to rethink what you want and what is possible.</p>
<p>Yes, I have definitely attempted to figure the monthly cost, it would be a bit over $1000 a month to pay if off in 10 years. Please understand that I plan on staying in the UK after I recieve my degree, and will therefore be making money in GBP, so I'll be paying off half that amount really, or around 500 pounds a month. The average salary for a zoologist is around 30,000 GBP starting, around $60,000. If I teach in a university over there (while working on a second thesis, it's been done, I intern at the American Museum of Natural History, so have at least some knowledge about how these things work), I'd be making more than that. I don't intend on having a car, or any other consumer debt.
At this point, for me to stay here, what am I going to do for a year? Though I have a high GPA and a lot of experience already in the field, I'd likely have to take out a loan to stay here anyway, since I wouldn't be eligible for scholarships this late in the game. I can go on a gap year yes, but I don't have $10,000 laying around, and the situation wouldn't get better at that point anyway as I'd have less money than before. </p>
<p>Right now I'm trying to work with the loan company, or see if I can divide the $28,000 between two loan companies.</p>
<p>What will happen if you can borrow the money this year, but next year you can't get any private loans? That may very well happen. Loan companies look at what you current debt is when evaluating whether to loan you money -- and they may feel like you are too much of a risk if you already owe $28,000. </p>
<p>You might want to have a contingency plan in place -- will the credits transfer to somewhere in the US? Can you take a year or two out of school to earn money if you have to?</p>
<p>Keep in mind that jobs are not guaranteed -- when you graduate, you won't even have a visa that allows you to work in the UK, so you will have several hurdles to jump in order to get that zoologist job in the UK.</p>
<p>I also think that your estimate of $1000/month is off. with approximately $126,000 in loans (part stafford/part private) you will probably need to pay off significantly more each month (remember interest is added in and you then pay interest on the interest). I think swimcatmom has some great links that will show you what you will be paying in the future.</p>
<p>student loans cannot be discharged under bankruptcy -- so you will owe them no matter what.</p>
<p>I didn't mean that she should take out $24,000 in private loans for one year of life- but I do think she should start to build a credit history, she will need to do that for car ins., to sign a rental agreement, even to get a job.</p>
<p>( However- I wouldn't suggest for most students to get a credit card to build credit unless you are really good about limiting purchases)</p>
<p>I plan on paying as much off as I can while in school, hopefully all of the interest that accrues. And if I'm still technically studying in the UK with a post graduate program, my student visa will still work. </p>
<p>If anything, I'd rather go there for a year and see how I can manage it, there is no way I could live in my house for another year, I have quite an uncomfortable home situation, one of many reasons for going so far lol. Staying at home isn't an option, I'd rather...I don't even want to contemplate that possibility really. I'm not being a brat or anything either, in fact my mother refuses to pay a dime anyway.
My only option right now is to work out this loan, and perhaps find another cosigner. I have faith in myself that I will be able to pay it back so that isn't the issue.</p>
<p>Oh and thank you btw to all who have replied so far, I understand that you mean well by telling me not to take out the loan and warning me of years of debt, but I've thought it over for many years and am willing to do so.</p>
<p>cynthiaxp, your choices are not only 1.) study in the UK; 2.) live at home. There are many other possibilities, including going to a US school, going to a school in Canada, working part-time and going to school part-time, going to a US school for two years and then transferring to the UK school.</p>
<p>The mortgage on my house is less than you are contemplating borrowing, AND my interest rate is lower than college loan rates, AND I make more money and have more assets than you will when you graduate! You will not be able to afford the payments, not on what you think you might make.</p>
<p>Borrowing that much money... even assuming you CAN borrow it (and it doesn't look like you can), and can borrow it each year (think it's hard to borrow now? Wait until you're already $60K in the hole.) -- means you are mortgaging your future for many years to come.</p>
<p>That university is too expensive for you.</p>
<p>You have other options. Please, please explore them.</p>
<p>I'd have to take out a loan to study here or in Canada anyway, I doubt anyone would give me a scholarship now. I am not going to be in debt for something I don't want, I dread the American system and its paradigm for undergraduate zoology.</p>
<p>And like I said, I will attempt to pay off as much as I can while in school (the university offers jobs that pay around $30,000 a year, Permanent</a> jobs if you don't believe me)
I will not be dissuaded from taking out the loan lol, I was only looking for ways that I could attain it...</p>
<p>cynthiahxp -</p>
<p>Just exactly what is your back-up plan in the case that absolutely no one will loan you the amount of money you need? You need to make one. If you don't take charge of that decision, life will take charge of it for you, and it will be September, you will still be at home, and you will be miserable.</p>
<p>Also, right now you are expecting to be able to pay your loans back at a favorable exchange rate. That is something that you should think very carefully about as well. What is your back-up plan for dealing with a reversal in the exchange rate?</p>
<p>I appreciate that you are enthuastic and are ready to pursue your dream.
I also agree that education is worth going into debt for.
HOwever- the amount of debt that you are looking at, will cripple your ability to live your life.
You will not be able to take time off, to buy a home or to start a family.</p>
<p>My oldest daughter has a good degree, from a wonderful school. Her total loans were $15, 000 and she was able to pay off almost $5,000 immediately with her education grant from Americorps.
She is able to pay on her remaining loans every month, without our help.
She is also able to take a few trips, like fly to visit friends on the eastcoast & attend a friends wedding in Idaho.
Still she has minimal other expenses, doesn't buy clothes, doesn't own a car, only recently has been able to get health insurance ( after graduating two years ago). Her computer is six years old, she hasn't been to the dentist or eye dr since she was in college & she has two roommates to share expenses with.</p>
<p>Careers in the sciences are competitive & often require advanced degrees.
They also are not well paying, unless you manage to land a tenured position at a well financed university & win additional awards for your research.
Biological</a> Scientists
Most do not make 6 figures.
There are many many schools in the US where you can earn a degree in the sciences.-also many more job prospects than UK, unless you have computer background and are going to Ireland ;)</p>
<p>Well I'd rather attempt to exhaust all of my resources and ask around for more cosigners and sponsorships than taking on a defeatist attitude.
If I am not able to take out the loan I'm considering going to Ecuador for a year to work with this animal rescue center, I'd have to defer my entry to Sheffield and my father will work out his credit and I will get a job to cover more of the costs. Understand that not going to the UK at some point is not an option...</p>
<p>"Careers in the sciences are competitive & often require advanced degrees.
They also are not well paying, unless you manage to land a tenured position at a well financed university & win additional awards for your research.
Biological Scientists
Most do not make 6 figures.
There are many many schools in the US where you can earn a degree in the sciences.-also many more job prospects than UK, unless you have computer background and are going to Ireland "</p>
<p>I understand that careers in the sciences are competitive and often require advanced degrees, which is why I planned on going to Sheffield and getting one in four years. An important part of being an established zoologist/conservationist is having field experience and publishing papers, Sheffield has intrinsic study abroad programs and will allow me to start publishing whilst in school. Also I have experience working with entomologists that will carry over to the UK. The UK is the best place to do zoology, I am sure of that. Here I would have to start out with a stupid liberal arts year and then will take many human anatomy courses irrelevant to me (since the conservation boom in the 90s everything has collapsed under general biology) I've researched US schools and that's why I didn't bother applying to any. And for me it is especially imp. considering that the major orangutan conservation organizations are centered in the UK. Sorry to say you are definitely wrong on that last part, at least for zoology that is. </p>
<p>This was definitely not the intention of my post...</p>
<p>It's not defeatist to deal with reality.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
I plan on paying as much off as I can while in school, hopefully all of the interest that accrues. And if I'm still technically studying in the UK with a post graduate program, my student visa will still work.
[/QUOTE]
Oh no it won't..... A student visa allows you to work up to 20 hours per week while enrolled in full time education. So you wouldn't be able to work at a full-time Zoology job.</p>
<p>Those permanent jobs linked above, are not for students. They are advertising for outside staff. Also, even if they were for students, there are 5 jobs and thousands of Sheffield students. Student jobs tend to be minimum wage. £5.50 an hour in bars and cafes. You cannot pay for overseas tuituion with a part-time student job in the UK. No way.</p>
<p>Let's look at the numbers.
£30,000 a year is an above average wage but not that amazing. You are failing to take into account tax and the high cost of living.
Tax = 20%
National insurance payment = this is for healthcare. Since I don't pay it I don't know how much it is, but it's a LOT.
Council tax = depends on value of your residence but at least £70 per month
housing = a room in a shared house in Oxford £400 per month. London maybe £500. sheffield will be less, but still £250-300 I reckon.</p>
<p>So £2500 per month
-at least 30 in tax and NI=£1750
-£300 rent and council tax =£1380 left. If you take £500 out of that for loans you have £880 to live on, which is ok, However, I reckon your expenses will be more. To be paid that much you will have to live in London or the south-east. In which case your rent could be upwards of £500 per month, council tax will be more etc. </p>
<p>Also, you think you will walk out of uni with an undergrad degree from a middling uni in a slightly obscure subject and walk into a £30,000 per year job? When you have no experience? I doubt it. I did Zoology at Cambridge and no-one was fighting over me (I was second in my year too). In UK academia nearly everyone is on temporary contract anyway (a professor has to die basically, to open up a permeanent position). You might get a job for a year, but what then?</p>
<p>Funding opportunities in the UK are MUCH better for post-graduate study. I get £15,000 a year tax free for my PhD. I highly recommend you wait. These numbers are really not adding up for you and I agree with all the above posters that you would be taking on an insane amount of debt. I like studying in the UK, but I wouldn't take on that amount of debt for it, especially when there are so many cheaper options for you in your own country.</p>
<p>See now this is advice that I will actually mull over seeing that you actually live and work in the UK. </p>
<p>But at this point, for the millionth time, I'd rather go there for a year even and come back, it will be unlikely for me to find a school here, that has my major, willing to accept me so late. And I'd have to take out a loan anyway!</p>
<p>cynthia -- I can assure you that every one of us posting here hopes that things work out for you the best way they can, but after years of experience we all know that sometimes what we dream, hope for and work for doesn't always happen.</p>
<p>you have got to have some kind of back-up plan! I truly think that you are going to have difficulty with getting private loans in the amount you need them -- you have already run into trouble this year, and next year will be even more difficult since you will have the first year's debt in your name.</p>
<p>As far as paying off as much as you can each year -- let's be honest, you can't pay off a dime! If you are able to work and earn money, that needs to go to pay towards your living expenses so that you could, perhaps, take out slightly less in loans the following year. </p>
<p>As far as trying to find another co-signer -- do you realize how being a co-signer for such a large private loan effects someone? It significantly increases the amount of debt showing on the credit report, the debt-to-credit ratio and ability to get further credit. Your co-signer will most likely have increased insurance rates (they check your credit), may have issues getting a job (most jobs check your credit, some do not like to hire those with large debt loads), make it nearly impossible to borrow money to buy a house, get a second mortgage and will increase the interest rate if the person wants to buy a car. Please make sure that your co-signer's are fully aware of the responsiblity of being a co-signer -- you don't want your father to become angry and resentful because he didn't realize the impact of this action. </p>
<p>If you are on a student visa in the UK, you are restricted in what you can do (and this is for the entire time you are there). You may not be employed in a permanent, full-time job -- you are restricted to working no more than 20 hours a week (which, honestly, is probably as much as you can work and still do well as a student).</p>
<p>It certainly sounds like the UK is where you want to study -- I just don't see how it will work, financially.</p>
<p>cross-posted with cupcake -- and my son attends school in the UK on a student visa, so I do have some experience (although it sounds like cupcake really knows what she is talking about)</p>