Advice for a concerned dad? (College ideas)

<p>It’s very hard to believe that with a 36 ACT that she will not have a lot of choices. I am sure she is top 9% (with a lower GPA and lower ACT score, my D is) and many of the holistic entry UCs should be an option, not to mention CSUs. Good luck!</p>

<p>I think it is fine to address the “issues” that explain the year of poor performance. She should definitely do this for one of the two UC essays. The UC campuses that do holistic evaluation will give her points for overcoming adversity. At the same time, the focus of the essay should be more on how she overcame than on the hardship itself. The goal should be to show resilience, rather than making excuses or going for pity points. </p>

<p>If there was a diagnosis of anything that could be considered a disability, this may trigger an augmented review at some UC campuses (definitely at Berkeley). The augmented review will allow her to answer a few additional questions specific to the disability. It will also allow her to get a teacher to answer related questions on her behalf. This represents a HUGE opportunity, as it is nearly the only thing close to a recommendation letter in the UC process (I say nearly, because they do something similar with wait listed applicants at Cal).</p>

<p>Thanks for all the replies everyone, they were very helpful!</p>

<p>The 36 + 3.4 UC GPA makes her an automatic top 9%, thankfully. We were considering Notre Dame, but I feel the GPA is too low; it’s about a 3.38W, and few ND entrants have that low a GPA w/o a hook. Still, legacy factors big in ND, so it may still be an option, albeit a long shot. The women’s colleges (Wellesley, Barnard, Scripps) were all ones she visited and adored, and they also have amazing connections with other great research universities. She wasn’t a fan of MHC, and hasn’t visited BMC - a friend attends and loves it. She’s interested in studying psychology and/or english. UMich is on the list because we visited and loved it, and it has an amazing psych dept. USC is a great school, of course. We didn’t really like Pitzer, but did like the CC as a whole so Scripps and maybe CMC for the heck of it are options.</p>

<p>The essay on depression that she wrote was not her main essay; her main essay steers clear of anything of the sort. The UCs and CA have an option for an additional essay to expand on if one’s academic record is not reflective of ability; that’s where she wrote about it. At its lowest point, she was diagnosed with ‘major depressive order with temporary psychotic features.’ The problem is it was during sophomore and junior year, the most important years, which creates a bigger issue. I know it doesn’t sound like a strong enough argument, but during those months I can attest that she was barely a person, so it definitely affected her record. However, the essay sort of turned it into a strength, which was good. I will get a second opinion on the essay though (if anyone would be interested in giving an outsider’s opinion on it, please PM me, and I can send it over.)</p>

<p>I think that you should stay away from any specific diagnosis. I wouldn’t think admissions people to be familiar with DSM diagnosis and the depressive disorder with psychotic features may be more alarming than it needs to. You seem like a great dad and your daughter seems resilient.</p>

<p>fightingirishdad, you have a very gifted daughter with some vulnerabilities. I am a psychiatric social worker and all for students using mental health services on campus. It is also a common story that other students during their college years will be burdened with parental discord and divorce. I absolutely would not use her diagnosis of depression with psychotic features in any essay. Colleges are very worried about liability. My husband the lawyer tells me about this and your daughter is at risk for other depressive spells.<br>
I would consider this racehorse of an academic talent of a daughter to be someone who should be given as much opportunity as possible but slowly and deliberately as more of her emotional maturity kicks in with age. ie…she may end up at a showier graduate school when she has had time to integrate and mature while other people may blow all their income on showy undergrad degrees. (My Duke grad will be going to night school for his graduate degree in public schools). Why not the reverse for her is my point. Other students will get hit up with depression at times in college. Their error is not getting help or availing themselves of a relationship with a counselor and doctor in student services. In April, you can weigh out the pros and cons of the emotional atmosphere at each college where she is admitted and she can help you choose where she feels she can be her best.</p>

<p>Her guidance counselor can include in her letter of reference that accompanies her school records the reality that this young woman dealt with family divorce and emotional upset at a tender age but is recovering ground now and the rest of her GC letter should talk about her strengths. </p>

<p>Of course I know zip about your daughter’s resiliency and social IQ and personal desire to go far away to school which are all factors but it seems to me that having her closer to her home state might make sense.</p>

<p>One mistake we made was spending an inordinate amt of resources on private school for eldest son (Duke) when we had very good state schools. Reality is that graduate schools are seldom underwritten with merit dollars and they tend to be very costly and to incur debt. There is no good reason to incur debt at both levels…undergrad and grad. So be very honest about your ability to fork over your EFC to private colleges. Your daughter is likely to go to grad school so her maturity years will be an arc that goes on for 4-6 plus years. </p>

<p>If you can afford your EFC in private institutions, then by all means look at campuses with nurturing adults, small classes and community values that are healthy. If you apply to schools that you can’t really afford without hitting the merit dollar jackpot, don’t do that to your daughter except by private agreement with her that you might go for it at one or two places. She is not someone who should have a pile of rejections in May. She is someone who needs few regrets, needs to look ahead now and to not dwell on her grades. College really is a fresh start.<br>
Nothing is more important than her essays and reference letters, two things in your control still. Please take the time to read Harry Bauld’s short but essential 25th anniversary On Writing the College Essay. Help your daughter present her strengths and her academic fire. </p>

<p>Regarding where she accepts and attends, work on getting in first. You have the entire month of April to do the whole pros and cons thing. If she is interested in a woman’s undergraduate college, I am a big fan of Haverford and we slept over on the Bryn Mawr campus. I really like their communities a great deal where courtesy and honorable dealings are standards that students set and uphold. As you know those two schools share newspapers, symphonies, theater and a joint biology program among other things.</p>

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<p>Depends on what you mean by “graduate school”. PhD programs are often funded with tuition waiver and stipend, while professional schools like MD, JD, and MBA programs tend to be full pay with debt.</p>

<p>One other thought. If your daughter grades are real strong now ED and EA are NOT her friends at more selective schools … for the better schools on her list she will want them to see her grades from the first semester of her senior year. Good luck!</p>

<p>Hmm … another thought.</p>

<p>As a Dad of women’s college grad (Barnard) I would say one of the strengths of women’s college is the level of support and community the schools provide. Seeing my daughter’s relationship with fellow students and more importantly professors and school administrators was amazing. I’m sure similar relationships can be developed other places however women’s college are known for creating engaging, comfortable, supportive environments to help young women thrive. Given the challenges your daughter has dealt with this community strength may be a big pro for women’s colleges (and probably LACs in general).</p>

<p>I do think that the specific diagnosis she received may sound alarming to some, so I would skip it. At the same time, I think she could safely describe the difficult circumstances and include that she was, as a result, diagnosed with depression. Given how common it is, I don’ think it would set off the same alarm bells. My son, who has Anxiety Disorder and some moderate LDs, wrote about that for one of his essays, and was admitted to a number of schools that were substantially more selective than than his GPA and test scores would have predicted. I think it was important, however, that the focus of his essay was how he had overcome his challenges and developed ways of performing well despite them.</p>

<p>I understand where you are coming from. I agree with limiting the rejections. What you need is some acceptances. </p>

<p>I would avoid the discussion of the depression at all from anybody. It’s private information and should be kept that way. Many colleges have support services, but they know statistically that they have to pay for them because people use them. They don’t want to knowingly use them. </p>

<p>Your daughter isn’t the first person to have great scores but mediocre grades. They are still ok. </p>

<p>Perfect scores are special because nobody knows how well she could have done if the test were harder, so she often gets the benefit of the doubt. You can’t say that with a 35. </p>

<p>I looked on my east coast HS’s naviance
Wellesley and Barnard are reaches. I don’t have enough data on Scripps
Bryn Mawr and Smith are very likely matches
Mt Holyoke is also very likely and almost a safety. </p>

<p>Some showing of interest is necessary for any of these. </p>

<p>I would push the smaller private schools given the situation. Given the lopsided stats, it’s hard to find data, so I’m looking for good schools that have taken significant numbers of 3.2 students at all. </p>

<p>Consider
Beloit
Brandeis
Case Western (if she’s math/science oriented)
Connecticut College
Dickinson College
Duke (seems to really like perfect scores, but of course it’s a reach).
Franklin and Marshall
George Washington University
Grinnell College
Harvey Mudd (again for math science, otherwise it’s not what you want - they took a some lopsided kids)
Kalamazoo College
Lawrence University (rigorous school, almost a safety)
UMiami
Occidential
Pitzer (probably much more competitive from CA than from MA though)
Reed (tough school but very holistic admissions. I think she has a shot at this)
University of Rochester
Skidmore
USC - took some kids with a 3.2 and high scores. Not sure if CA student would have tougher time
Tulane
Union</p>

<p>For large but good public schools I’d consider
UColorado-Boulder
UDelaware
UIllinois- Urbana-Champaign
Ohio State
Penn State
UPittsburgh
UTexas-Austin
UWisconsin-Madison (just a match though)
Syracuse (large private) would likely admit her. </p>

<p>Canadian Schools (large public but often a lot of good students) - all but McGill
Toronto
University of British Columbia
Queen’s
Simon Fraser</p>

<p>CRD…why NOT McGill?</p>

<p>Let someone else like the GC write about the down/up of your daughter’s grades. They can explain it well in their counselor letter. She doesn’t want to sound like this defines her…because really it doesn’t. Her situation sounds well managed now.</p>

<p>If it were me, I would be helping her find a campus that really supports all of its students. I would worry that a large Big 10 university might not do so. You sound worried enough…you don’t want to think she is going to be a number that will fall through the cracks. Also check for supportive services on campus. And check for off campus too (making sure your insurance will cover the costs…and the places are easily accessible…just in case).</p>

<p>Your daughter has many good options. She is a strong student.</p>

<p>The liability the schools worry about is whether the stress of college, itself, will trigger problems. They like sure bets- those kids they can see have faced challenges (granted the ordinary ones are academic and in activities) and surmounted them. “Show, not tell” plays a large role. You can’t really just write that thing are better. Many kids think compete frankness is an asset- it is very tricky. You are telling this to strangers, who deal with kids’ patterns and apps, year in and year out, but don’t know your child. Much is about impressions that are created.</p>

<p>Many times, the right environment is not one that is academically challenging, with a rep to match. It’s one where she gets a “soft landing.” That’s not just a “top” school with great counseling or understanding adults. It can mean less overall competition, so she can master the various challenges (academic, social, leadership, etc) and build her self esteem.</p>

<p>I don’t know what to suggest, considering that, in the past, rep mattered to her. But, I’d caution you to take a hard look at what comes through in that circumstances essay. And to look beyond next March, find the schools that can help her build the strengths she needs, going forward from that. Best wishes.</p>

<p>ps. sometimes it helps to look at the rep of the specific depts she is interested in. A school may have a lower overall standing, but the student can take pride in the strength of the particular program she is aiming for, those profs and their work.</p>

<p>I have to agree with lookingforward. My son faced a family trauma much worse than divorce (IMHO) during the summer between his freshman and sophomore year. His situation was explained with a statement from his GC about how his accomplishments in the face of adversity were very impressive and one sentence on the Common App about extenuating circumstances. His essays were both very positive and revealed things that made him ‘tick’ as an individual and as a student.</p>

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<p>USC is not small.</p>

<p>I agree with the other posts that caution you to be careful with the “circumstances essay”. I am assuming that you as her parent, or a professional, has determined that she is capable of being independent at college. If that is the case then I think you have a lot to be optimistic about. Her GPA is clearly trending upward and I am told that colleges look closely at that trend. Her ACT is outstanding so no worries there. If it were my child in the circumstances you describe, I would focus the “circumstances essay” on the separation of you and your wife. I think she will have some good choices at the end of the day.</p>

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<p>McGill is numbers driven. Large sample. Nobody with any SAT score got in with a 3.2. Why bother?</p>

<p>I would steer clear of the word “psychosis” and even the word “depression” in any application. You can mention divorce or family hardship, but avoid discussion of mental health issues. Save those for the housing and medical questionnaires AFTER she is accepted. My daughter did this and it worked out well for her.</p>

<p>We aren’t divorced, just separated (there was some problems with abuse involving W and D), someone close to D passed away etc, which contributed to the long-term depression. The therapist said that a lot of it was due to the environment, and leaving would be good. She also recommended mentioning the depression in an essay, but would that really hurt her?</p>

<p>She had to retake a class junior year, so the upward trend is really from last year to this year.</p>

<p>Here’s our current list: UCs, U of Oregon, Willamette, USC, NYU, UMich, UT Austin, Barnard, Bryn Mawr, Scripps, Notre Dame. We were considering UBC, but I don’t know if I want to send her to a big school so far away.</p>

<p>CRD - thanks for the list, I’ll be checking up on those schools!</p>

<p>Really, colleges are very concerned about liability and are wary of things like depression. The therapist isn’t a college admissions officer! It is fine for her to talk about external pressures, but leaving any diagnosis reference out of it is a good idea. </p>

<p>This looks like a nice list for her, I think she will find a good spot from these. It is a lot of pressure on a kid to apply to a lot of schools (work while busy with senior year), so you might just leave this list as it is.</p>

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<p>But a lot of your list is made up of “big schools far away.” If you are seriously considering Michigan or Texas I would learn everything you can about the support network for students (advising, mental health services, etc.) If your daughter is still at all fragile, I would DEFINITELY not send her to a school like NYU that is notorious for absence of student supports. Kids who succeed there tend to be VERY self-sufficient and good at advocating for themselves. I would be very nervous having my daughter all the way across the country in a non-campus environment in a huge city. If she likes NYC Barnard would be a better choice, IMO.</p>