Advice for incoming middle schooler, yes, middle schooler

Parents Forum
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“I especially need to win prestigious competitions and so many of the parents and kids who come on here, devastated because they weren’t accepted to a more “prestigious” college”

My point is that kids who win prestigious competitions are not going be “devastated” on c/c as long as they’re accurate about what they posted. Nothing is guaranteed especially at places like MIT or Stanford, but they’ll do fine. Again, the MIT adcoms go to science fairs finals to scout for students who they think will fit, similar to coaches and athletes (their words). If you wanted to shoot for MIT, wouldn’t that give you some idea what they’re looking for.

Sure, but many parents, not the enlightened ones on this thread of course :smiley:, think that pushing kids into these activities is right for their child. Are you implying that you know what’s right for another person’s child? That would be an interesting position to take.

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As @DigitalDad wrote - did you do it so that your kids could get into a “prestigious” college, or because you believed that these activities were good for your kids?

My kid has been dancing from the age of 6, has been at multiple science summer camps, multiple summer camps with the Center for Talent Development, played clarinet for three years, participated in all sorts of summer reading and acting programs. However, neither my wife or I even imagined that any of these things would have the slightest effect on our kid’s college career. We did not really know until she was in high school that colleges considered anything but stats for admissions.

We put her in these programs because she’s talented, super smart, and has a wide range of interests, and school could not provide enough, and we believed that her education should not be limited to the standard K-12 curriculum. Both my wife and I grew up in countries which have no concept of “holistic admissions”, and both of us were engaged in extracurricular activities. My wife took 14 years of violin, art and dance classes, as well as all sorts of other extracurricular activities, none which had anything to do with college. I engaged in extracurricular activities which matched my interests, many which I looked up myself, because my school did not have classes in those topics.

We just were looking through her father’s extracurricular activities in the USSR, and he did mountain climbing, fencing, chess, and hiking in high school. Not for college, but because that was considered the sort if thing that a well rounded student did.

In fact, this is still true in many places in the world.

In most countries of the world, kids do extracurricular activities for the education and pleasure they provide. Only in the USA are there that many people who consider these primarily as methods to be accepted to a “prestigious” college.

PS. I grew up in Israel, and the idea of looking at somebody’s high school extracurricular activities after they spend three years in the military is sort of silly…

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There’s also a quality vs quantity thing going on. Many kids just have too much stuff shoved into their days. If they love something, great, but slamming kids with a college admissions must have list of ECs is truly unhealthy.

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It’s fine to talk to middle school students about college, but they need to have the right advice:

  • Find an activity that you love and try to stick with it. Particularly important for music. When you send in your college application, there’s no point in saying you played an instrument for a few years but quit in 9th grade. Quitting activities is by far the biggest mistake that I see kids making in college admissions.
  • Read a lot and develop intellectual passion (quite different from intellectual ability)
  • Learn good study skills in your classes.
  • Avoid academic summer camps. Top colleges know perfectly well that such camps are a luxury for wealthy families and are not an indicator of a kid’s level of creativity, passion or original thought.

I went to a strong public HS back in the 90’s. The kids who got into top-10 schools were musicians, athletes, or interesting kids for some other reason. The pure academic stars without extracurricular activities didn’t get into top schools.

Extra math and FL does very little for a college application. Kids who do extra math and FL AND get into top schools get in because of other, genuinely outstanding qualities.

I’m not a romantic about the college process. “Just let them do what they want” is a bad idea for teaching table manners, let alone educating a kid. Middle school kids do benefit from encouragement, direction, and some nudging to make sure that the work gets done.

But having said all this, I’ll add that the advice really should be couched in terms that connect to the kid’s future: Playing music opens up whole new horizons for you; athletics teaches you teamwork and self-discipline; learning study skills will help you on the job, whichever you choose. Even while doing what will eventually help with college apps, there is very little need to mention college at all.

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Or not. The vast majority of students attend colleges for which ECs are not very important or not important at all.

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In general, I favor hands-off … .just let a middle schooler explore. However I do see some advantage of advanced math for students with strong math aptitude. That can give students a chance to do AP calc in high school. That’s good prep for a kid going into engineering. Just as important… it is GREAT eye opener for kids that think they might want to go into engineering and decide that the higher level math required is not their cup of tea. At age 11 it is hard to know which category, but it is helpful to have opportunity to discover the answer pre-college.

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How did we get through 66 posts and not tell the OP what they should be worried about? The MONEY. Too many parents worry about packaging their child and think the money will just work out. The cream will always rise to the top. It is nearly impossible to over save for college.

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Another issue is burnout. Yes, there’re some seemingly “success” stories like those of Amy Chua’s daughters, but I’ve seen enough college burnouts at a couple of the nation’s most rigorous colleges and known personally of other cases at some not-so-rigorous colleges. Don’t exhaust your kids!

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Great point about the MONEY. Parents often expect scholarships when in reality need based Financial Aid is more common, especially at top schools.

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With S21 we found this to be all too true.
Our EFC is full pay and any substantial Merit didn’t come in to National Universities Ranked in the 80’s and up per USNWR for our son.
Luckily FSU, Florida State, (Instate) was one of his top choices and he ended up there.

What did we consider substantial merit. Public OOS getting tuition at or close to instate tuition and for privates getting at or close to instate flagships.

Penn State was one of my sons other top choices but gave him no Merit, 4 years of FSU (Instate) tuition is cheaper than one year at Penn State for OOS students. We just couldn’t justify the expense especially with him thinking about Law school or Grad school and a daughter graduating HS in 2023.

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For context, I recently graduated middle school and used CC to navigate my way through the high school admissions process.

I’d say to take a step back from college preparation and focus on getting through middle school. Your child’s goal should be to find the best study techniques for your child. I wish I found good study methods early on since I got below a 50% on my first two tests, which set me back for a while. After this, I’d tackle finding ways to get high school credits or finding ways to take more advanced classes. Even though I won’t be attending HS in the US, my school actually accepted one of my math credits meaning that I can take a higher-level math class.

After that step, I would be look for a HS to attend. Whether this is a public school, private school, etc. it doesn’t matter as long as you make sure that you find the best fit for your child early on (end of seventh/ early eighth). Once your child reaches HS, that’s when I would recommend focusing on college applications.

Tips:

  • Start or continue an EC your child actually enjoys and can stick with. It may take a few tries before finding this
  • Keep the grades up to develop good habits
  • Don’t get caught up in lots of drama
  • Be involved with at least one organization that interests you. This would be the most optional out of the bunch, but I feel like it’s a good thing to do, and if you could get leadership experience, that’ll only help the HS/ College admissions process.
  • Remember that one hardship may set you back temporarily, but it won’t matter after a while

From what you heard from other parents, here are my two cents.

  1. I agree with this, but don’t expect to get a leadership position easily

  2. Don’t do this. You’ll end up hating the language want to quit. Take a language you are genuinely interested in taking if you can.

  3. Not sure if this means getting onto a HS or on a middle school JV team, but only do this if your child likes sports

  4. Do NOT do this. There are tons of other ways to get leadership experience. If anything, these easily attained leadership positions will go straight past an AO’s head since it’ll seem like everyone has done this or is only there to pad an application. Instead, try to go to the highest level of something you actually enjoy.

Nothing really matters in middle school except for high school credits and study habits IMO. Sometimes the specific grade you got shows up on your high school transcript, and sometimes it’s only the letter grade.

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Someone copied me this thread from Quora, Is Silicon Valley a good place to raise children Why/answer/Dani-Maydan?srid=LVRe

Unbearable to read. Even if you are not pursuing Ivy schools, being in this kind of environments is just toxic.

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Unfortunately, this is just an extreme version of the type of parenting that goes on in many upper middle class/wealthy communities. It’s sad because this type of upbringing telegraphs that how you perform (grades/scores) is more important than who you are as a person.

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Is parenting or the nature of current elite college admissions the root of the problem? We can say endlessly that an elite college education isn’t going to define a student, but somehow the message doesn’t sound convincing to many students and their parents.

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Should be “is Palo Alto … ?”, since Palo Alto is not necessarily representative of the entire region.

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That may be true…but is that region any different than an affluent community in the Northeast? The issues are pervasive in most of the places people posting here hail from.

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Not every part of the region is affluent by the standards of this forum.

Many students go to state universities with financial aid, or community colleges.

Palo Alto historically was a “good school” area, probably because Stanford faculty lived in the area. But it attracted (tiger?) parents (with money) looking for “good schools”, so there may be a self-selection bias beyond the affluence.

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Advice for an incoming middle schooler…let them be a middle schooler.

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If it’s in commuting distance to Palo Alto, and wealthy, it’s pretty much the same.

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Nearby North Fair Oaks (an unincorporated area) and East Palo Alto are not really the same as Palo Alto.

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