Advice for transposing when non-performance major...

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>Greetings, all. This is going to sound a little crazy, but perhaps one of you can make a suggestion or assessment that helps us resolve this matter since many of you are musicians (and I am not : ). My S has been admitted to University of Michigan in Performing Arts Tech, music, which is a BFA, not BMus. (And he is ecstatic about this...) He has never had private lessons; his school HS had slim musical offerings; and did not even offer AP theory, so he is deficient in theory (although did well enough at orientation to be in the regular theory class.) While he is an imaginative trumpet player who enjoys both jazz and wind ensemble, he never had to transpose on the fly to concert pitch and he would not consider himself performance-level in terms of technique for a school such as U of M.
HOWEVER, he was awarded a small but meaningful and much needed music-specific scholarship in addition to his others. The catch is, he has to perform in one of the universities ensembles, the ones for music majors.
After touring Europe with Blue Lake this summer, he thought auditioning might be challenging but possibly "not entirely disastrous".
He returned last week and got his hands on the music. Every single excerpt is in concert pitch (and his trumpet is a Bflat).</p>

<p>He is concerned that even if he manages to transpose it correctly and perform it adequately, that the expectation in this particular band is that freshmen can readily transpose on the fly, which he cannot. I note this is not his major, nor is trumpet the foundation upon which his portfolio and subsequent acceptance rested. </p>

<p>So, my questions for those pros among you:</p>

<p>1) Is it possible for a player to master ( or manage to some degree) transpostition site reading in 5 weeks? If so, how many hours a day and how would he attack it? Tips, tricks, books, online, audio resources avail? (I've ordered a book by Clifford Lillya for practice.)
2) Would most major ensembles typically expect a freshman to have developed the ability to transpose to concert pitch on the fly? Eg. even if the skies open and he makes the cut (he is determined to try no matter what, but is very realistic in his expectation) would he still then be faced with an almost insurmountable gap...?
3) Would he be truly better off finding another way to come up with that few extra thousand? He's maxed on his loans due to his high-end tech/audio equip package...and I'm not sure a cost-benefit analysis would rationalize sudden and intense private lessons now...(not that it wouldn't assist him overall, but his u. bill is due end of august...)</p>

<p>Thanks for any thoughts on this and excuse my naivete. It's very odd to have an unconventionally musical child to be headed off to a music school and have no clue how to assist him.
Cheer, K : )</p>

2

<p>Any chance he has a friend with Sibelius or Finale in their computer? They could scan the music…and get it “transposed” for the audition.</p>

<p>I wish my son were easily accessible…he could tell your son how to do that transposition by looking at the notes…I know it’s not that hard…but DS is not available right now. If I hear from him, I’ll ask.</p>

3

<p>I have never heard of wind ensemble players having to transpose on the fly. Is this normal anywhere?</p>

4

<p>Hunt…this OP’s kid is being asked to audition for the ensembles for music majors at his school. This would include the orchestra, I would imagine. </p>

<p>And re: transposition…My son transposed music for almost every ensemble at some point. Some of it just isn’t written in Bb.</p>

5

<p>I don’t know about orchestral music, but is there really a lot of music for winds in which the parts aren’t transposed? It’s been decades, but when I played in college, I don’t recall any such music. I recall having to transpose on rare occasion when there was no part at all for the instrument I played (baritone sax), but this wouldn’t be case for a trumpet. Certainly all the Grainger, Holst, etc. stuff came in transposed parts.
I’m not questioning at all that they want him to transpose for the audition–I’m just curious how much transposing he’s really likely to do in the ensembles.</p>

6

<p>Thanks, thumper1, in actual fact he will have his own copy of Sibelius on order but it won’t be in until his computer tech pkg is ready Sept. 1 : (. We do have a copy of Print Music, and that is what he is working on in order to prepare at all.
The graver concern is whether or not the actual expectation for the band is transpose-on-the-fly versus: here’s your piece, bring it back transposed, OR we expect you to transpose-in-your-head : )</p>

<p>And Hunt, according to S., indeed most concert work is in concert c apparently, and apparently pros get around the hassle by playing a C trumpet…I am taking heart in your surprise, however, and remain hopeful that the director is just interested in weeding out those that won’t do the prep work : )</p>

7

<p>Well…first of all, except for a some compositions…the sax is not an orchestral instrument. It’s the orchestral parts that are usually written in C. </p>

<p>I don’t recall the my son was EVER handed music in college which he had to instantaneously transpose (could have happened…but I don’t know about it if it did). In most cases, music for ensembles was given out BEFORE the rehearsals began for the pieces and the players were expected to come to the rehearsal with their parts practiced and learned (before the rehearsals began).</p>

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<p>thumper, that’s why I referred to music for winds. I was in the wind ensemble, not the orchestra. I can’t recall any pieces in which the parts were in C.
So what the OP’s son encounters may vary depending on what kind of ensemble he gets in, I suppose. If he’s not a performance major, it’s probably more likely that he will be in the wind ensemble than in the orchestra, I would think.</p>

9

<p>On that note, that might explain the “everything-in-c” nature of the audition excerpts…the audition is a unified screened audition for both the highest symphony ensemble AND the concert band. So perhaps the selections were weighted toward the symphony level (highest level difficulty) and <em>maybe</em> those who can’t cut it might still make concert (???).
One can hope : )</p>

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<p>Horn players, of course, have to do this all the time. Best way to practice it is just do it every day! I suggest taking out an old book of etudes or exercises and just read for a while. Using the time to work on breathing and technique in addition to transposing will not necessarily add extra practice time. I think that for a C part a Bb player would transpose up a whole step and add 2 sharps to whatever the written key is (in a flat key the sharps would cancel out the flat(s)- for example, a piece written with 2 flats in the key signature would be 0 flats or sharps after transposing). Somebody check me on this! One step is really not too difficult; he should be able to get used to this.</p>

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<p>Thanks, operahorn. I will share your advice. It makes the most sense to strive to develop the skill. We’ll see what five weeks of same can produce.</p>

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<p>I can’t vouch for this, necessarily, but I asked my son about it, and he says the reason the trumpet part is in C is that orchestra trumpet players typically play C trumpets. At his composition program last summer, they were taught to generate orchestral parts for trumpets in C, and parts for other instruments in their own keys (i.e., clarinet parts were in B flat). But here’s what Wikipedia says:

I still think that he’ll find that if he gets into the wind ensemble or band, that the trumpet parts will be be in B flat.</p>

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<p>LOL. According to my son that would make your son’s composition instructors “purists.” He alleges that the purist penchant for writing in C is outdated and irrational. Spoken like a kid who doesn’t want to learn to sight-transpose : )</p>

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<p>I don’t think this was about being a purist–I think it was about writing parts in the native key of the instruments in the orchestra. My son said that some of the kids initially wrote the trumpet parts in B flat, because they assumed that’s what the trumpets in the orchestra would be, but in fact all the trumpet players in the orchestra there were playing C trumpets.</p>

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<p>Yes (responding to earlier post), when a Bb instrument plays a “C”, it will sound like a piano’s Bb. (Piano is a C instrument, as are flute, violin, etc.) So to match the sound of C, the trumpet player needs to play a D.</p>

<p>A Bb is one full step lower than a C. So to transpose the trumpet’s sound to Concert C, all the notes that are written need to be raised a full step. A Cmajor scale would then be: D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D. </p>

<p>It is easier to visualize on a keyboard. Every single key, regardless of color, is a half-step from the next. A major scale then follows the pattern: Starting note, Whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half. In the key of C, that puts you on all white keys. In the other keys, you end up using black keys. You can start on any note you wish - black or white, and follow this pattern, and come up with a major scale that is named after the note you start with.</p>

<p>When transposing, musicians learn also to read intervals. That is, how many steps between one note and the next. So when transposing, they can find their starting point, and go from there simply by recognizing how far apart notes are.</p>

<p>It is possible to learn all this. Like most things, it gets easier with practice. But for his audition this time, I think your son should get someone to help him write out a transposed version of the pieces.</p>

<p>This may be more than you asked for or wanted.</p>

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<p>And if he gets into the orchestra, he could always get a C trumpet.</p>

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<p>Thanks, Binx, that’s actually exactly what I was hoping to glean.
And Hunt, I was partly jesting re: “purist” (although s. indeed did say that in reference to why symphony music is in c for trumpet : ) S. is a little biased toward jazz and does not especially want a C trumpet – since being a “non” purist he seems to believe the instrument is in its best form as Bb and he’s rather heavily invested in his, which he is still paying off. (Then again, that could be a jazz “purist” position, couldn’t it!) (Suspect his rationale is based in part on a lack of desire to buy new one.) I did ask. His response was a little exasperated: Something about warm and rich vs. crisp and bright, and something about jazz and other types of music all being for Bb. Could all be young musician hearsay, bias, and subject to change once his opinion is informed by his imminent experience learning to transpose – hi ho : ). That part I’ll leave to him.
I am now clear what he’s up against and the long short of it is that he’ll ultimately need to develop this skill to keep playing, even casually, at the next level and with kids at his SOM and that his ability to do so will likely coincide/be reinforced by/and reinforce his rigorous theory classes so time spent now will not be wasted. At the same time, I will prepare myself for the inevitable financial hit should his efforts not bear the desired result. Oh well. Thanks, everyone, for weighing in on it.</p>

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<p>I have not heard of players in wind ensembles being required to be able to sigh transpose, other then horn players who for some strange reason take pride in having to transpose their music (in this day and age of computer scoring systems, they can’t argue it would be difficult to provide a transposed part for a horn player already in F). </p>

<p>However, depending on what your S is going to do down the road, being able to transpose might not be a bad skill to have. In ensemble playing where they often will substitute one instrument for another, being able to sight transpose into Bb might get him some gigs, and in other music venues (I would gather jazz, plus some types of contemporary music) they can decide to shift the key of the piece,same with gigging with other groups like pop groups.</p>

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<p>Musicprnt, I think it was a little rude to call attention to the ‘pride’ horn players have at having to transpose. It would be great if all music were transposed for us. It just isn’t. Especially in opera. From my experience I appreciate transposed parts, but quite often the transpositions have mistakes in them. In addition, there is a positive aspect to original parts as the harmony is more apparent, which helps us to play in tune.</p>

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<p>Thanks, all. BTW, it would appear that I have completely misunderstood/mischaracterized my son’s comments to me about the whole thing. I learned this in a discussion en route to drop him off at a mini-tour location yesterday. To begin with, he explained there really isn’t a difference re: Bb and C trumpets, that comment about warm/vs/bright was actually about his custom-made mouthpiece in a different convo that I had muddled, and that his resistance to the C trumpet was purely fiscal and pragmatic (hoarding his $ for fear he’ll run out early on…). So ignore that comment. Also, he has apparently been aware all along of the practical value of developing the ability to transpose on the fly, as it would be easier jamming in alternative situations as well (eg. writing songs on piano, playing with friends in rock bands) and had the expectation that by the end of undergrad he will have developed that ability regardless, due in part to the theory component. Like French Horn, he said it just goes with the territory if you want to be able to play in a variety of situations.</p>

<p>The panic part was his concern that every freshman at that audition has ALREADY developed this skill and that he doesn’t stand a chance or know how to improve QUICKLY. He’s going to cross that bridge when he comes to it now and is also investigating other ways to keep scholarship inside his schedule as a plan b.</p>