Advice for violinist daughter - music ed

Mezzo_sMama · February 7, 2010, 9:36pm

Given her desires at the moment take a look at Case Western, who DOES offer a degree in music education ([Music</a> Education - Music Department - Case Western Reserve University](<a href=“Department of Music | Case Western Reserve University”>Department of Music | Case Western Reserve University) ) and where she could double major in accounting. As Fiddlestix has said, CIM’s main focus is performance, but they also give the option of taking an education degree at the same time, but she wouldn’t have time for the accounting. Taking the degree through Case is not as rigorous an admit as through the conservatory but the uni is well respected and she could have the option to investigate her interests.
To say that Eastman and CIM “do not offer strong music ed” is not true- howeve neither may be the the right place for your D at this point in time. While music ed is not the primary focus, since both schools are considered conservatories, they are both affiliated with universities, The University of Rochester and Case Western, respectively, and anyone lucky enough to be admitted to their programs will certainly graduate with not only an excellent education but a degree from a top school.

musicprnt · February 7, 2010, 11:08pm

Reading the posts, it seems like the decision comes down to what kind of teaching your D wants to do. Obviously, getting a music ed degree (as I understand it) can lead to the possibility of teaching in a public school as a music teacher. One thing to keep in mind is that with public school music teachers, you don’t just teach one instrument, part of the program is learning to teach multiple instruments, so she wouldn’t just be working with the violin. And from everything i hear, the music ed degree is intensive and time intensive, so it sounds like it would be hard to get a degree in accounting or anything else.

It sounds more like what she wants to do is have a ‘real’ job like accounting, and then teach on the side so to speak. Given the nature of a music ed degree, taking that would be the wrong thing to do if she wants to take that path. One thing I could offer would be to get a degree in accounting or whatever, maybe minor in music or at least taking lessons, and then she could always get let’s say suzuki training from one of the music schools that offer that (I am not talking a college degree here,I am talking a professional training CE kind of thing), concurently or after graduation, then be able to teach privately or at a community music school or whatnot.

UC2008 · February 8, 2010, 1:58am

what are her adition pieces btw?

violadad · February 8, 2010, 9:35am

The last posts by musicprnt, Mezzo’sMama and lastroseofummer all make extremely valid points.

And part of the issues in formulating responses for “look at lists” especially in dual pursuit strategies is determining where the primary focus will lie. In many cases those of us crafting the reply are working with limited knowledge of the student’s needs/wants or automatically assume music will be the primary focus.

Certain disciplines, music ed included tend to be structured formal programs with cast in stone degree requirements. Admission requirements are fairly specialized , and admission is typically major specific. The nature of the sequenced coursework and specialized requirements often do not leave a lot of free credits available for a second concentrated course of study. It can be available as a minor, but certain coursework (including observation, practicum and student teaching experiences) is off limits to non-majors.

For a string player, the string project affiliated schools offer an additional opportunity to get involved quickly. Often, you don’t have to be a music major to participate, but the parameters are institution specific. And historically, most programs offered a small stipend or tuition offset for participation.

There are always options. Knowing the differences between the BA, BS & BM variants, the school’s and departments philosophies regarding cross discipline pursuit and support are key.

I debated posting links, as the OP said she had gone through some of them, but in the spirit of potential future use, I’ll post a few anyway.

And I’d hate to acquire the moniker of the MissingLink ;)

These have both specific school recommendations, and some general music ed info.

I’m going to call these a bit more “philosophical” or esoteric. The first two are posts from
an old thread in the Parents Forum which vectored in a number of directions.

<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060926187-post91.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060926187-post91.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060927000-post92.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060927000-post92.html</a>

And this one is mandatory reading
[Peabody</a> Institute - Conservatory Admissions: The Double Degree Dilemma](<a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/doubledegree]Peabody”>Double Degree | Peabody Institute)

memake · February 8, 2010, 2:22pm

I’m probably just piling on here, but…

Suzukimom, based on your description of your daughter’s current violin-life and career goals, I don’t see why she would even consider a music-ed degree. People study music-ed because at the end of the day they want to be hired as a professional teacher specializing in music in a (usually public) k-12 school system. They learn to play at an advanced-elementary level all band and orch instruments so they can conduct school groups. They learn child development, pedagogy, etc. They learn music theory and history, of course. They learn keyboard skills - important for choral conducting and for classroom accompanying. And then they go compete for a public school job in an era of decreasing funding for the arts in the public schools.

A performance major at a place like CIM, Oberlin or Eastman, on the other hand, is someone who spends 20+ hours/wk practicing, and another 10+ hours/wk in ensemble, studio and major-lesson classes. (And then there’s theory, music history, keyboard, etc.) Also, competition to be accepted into those programs is pretty tough - just sayin, most of the kids accepted to those three programs in particular in violin have already been successful at audition-based entry to selective summer programs, or have won concerto competitions, etc. After they complete their BM degrees (well, really, after completing a performance Master’s degree), many of these school’s graduates do look to put together a music-performance-centered life that might well include a teaching studio. Many of them eventually do something else professionally - after maybe attending law school or med school or graduate school, 'cause the music performance world is tough to make a living in!

When I think of the studio teachers I have known, the most highly regarded ones have been people who make their living pretty much entirely in the music biz, whether as performers, college performance professors, etc. The second tier of studio teachers in the places I have lived have been music-ed people who run a studio on the side of their professional public school K-12 career. The third tier have been people who are doing something else in life, but achieved a level of performance ability at some prior point in their lives sufficient for teaching beginner-to-intermediate students. It kind of sounds like this is what your daughter is aiming for. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this - it’s an honorable way to do what you love and get paid for it. But it is what it is. Getting the performance training in college to enable your daughter to run a studio like this is definitely doable in conjunction with getting an accounting degree. It is not going to be quite as intense and competitive a performance atmosphere as she might find at Eastman or Oberlin, but it should leave her with enough time to do well in her other studies.

Good luck with putting together a college list - people have mentioned Hartt, SUNY Fredonia, Ithaca College – these all sound reasonable to me.

binx · February 8, 2010, 3:15pm

I’d like to give at least passing mention to my D’s school, Miami U of Ohio. She is a violin major there. MU offers accounting, and it is possible to double major there. (Different majors are structured differently, so I would investigate this more thoroughly beforehand.) My D, as a performance major, is currently taking a required pedagogy course, which we are thrilled about, where she learns to teach violin to an actual student while her own teacher mentors. The school also offers an ed degree, although those students don’t have time to double major, and their program takes an extra semester. Miami also offers a BA degree in music, as well as the performance and music ed programs.

My D ilikes her teacher very much. And the school is a bit short on violinists, so there may be scholarship money available.

My D also considered Denison - where the teacher is Suzuki certified. She liked that teacher very much, too, but I just checked their website and they don’t offer accounting.

Suzukimomto2 · February 8, 2010, 9:34pm

Thanks everyone. You’ve offered good advice. We have a couple visits scheduled next week and she may find for herself what path she should take. Right now she’s very touchy about the subject and accusing me of not wanting her to pursue a music ed major. I want her to follow her heart’s desire. She just may need to hear another voice besides mine.

She’s good at violin and gets reinforced by her peers. It’s hard when you’re good at something - but you’re not sure what to do with that talent. She realized last summer at NYSSA that she’s not passionate about music like some of her fellow orchestra members. I think that’s when she started to look at other options besides music. But then she couldn’t see her life without it either. She wants to keep playing, learning and growing. So she’s trying to keep that option open with the music ed major.

I’d like her to consider some LACs with solid music programs. With her academics and violin ability, she could very well get some decent scholarship money. She’s picky though. She wants a good teacher. She wants a good orchestra. Her present teacher is very well known and respected in the Suzuki world and has students attending very fine conservatories.

Suzukimomto2 · February 8, 2010, 9:46pm

Violadad, Thanks for the Peabody link. My daughter is definitely a Jennifer. :)

thumper1 · February 8, 2010, 9:54pm

Your daughter sounds like mine. She was first chair in all state orchestra as a junior. She was asked to play often on orchestras (everyone needed an oboe or English horn). BUT she was not interested in majoring in music. However, she attends a fine university, plays in the school orchestra, continues to take private lessons…and the like. She is an engineering/biology double major. She says music will always be part of her life…but it’s not her main career aspiration.

Suzukimomto2 · February 8, 2010, 9:55pm

UC2008 - She’s a junior so she hasn’t settled on her audition pieces. She is presently working on the Wieniawski Violini Concerto. She also plays the Mozart D major which she performed for her All State audition and got 100. She recently played Bach Partita in E Major, Preludio and received an 100 in an audition. She’ll likely play that and the Wieniawski.

stradmom · February 9, 2010, 8:47am

Suzukimomto2: My d went through a similar period of soul-searching about musical career choices and actually ended up deciding to audition on her then-secondary instrument, viola, instead of violin. As she explored options, she found a few LACs that had okay music programs and most of which offered nice scholarships to nonmajors/double majors for participating in music organizations, including Skidmore, Gettysburg (don’t let the “conservatory” label scare you off; we were advised to check it out from a highly respected Suzuki teacher), Susquehanna, Vassar, Connecticut College. Her sister is a nonmusic major at Bard but plays in a variety of school music groups (including recently a Zombie Opera - don’t ask!) - no music scholarship here but free lessons.

uskoolfish · February 9, 2010, 5:54pm

Just a heads up, because I had this conversation recently with my D about music ed. As a teacher myself, I know that there are many requirements for getting the certification that will allow one to teach. NY State used to offer permanent certification, but no longer. In order to stay certified, teachers need to put in hours in a classroom and take a certain amount of in-service classes on an on-going basis.

I say this because if your D does the initial classwork and student teaching to begin the certification process as an undergraduate, but does not follow up by working in a classroom setting, she may not be able to hold on to her certification and may not get credit for her work.

I am not sure what the certification process is right now, but I would ask before I had her stay an extra year in school to dual major with accounting and music ed… It would be a shame if her student teaching and credits could not be used at a later date.

If her dream is to be an accountant and teach violin privately, she may chose to be a violin performance major instead, which could have fewer requirements than music ed and she may be able to finish a performance/ accounting dual degree in 4 years.

She could always go back for her masters in music ed at a time that she really wants to teach in a classroom. A music ed master’s degree can be done in a year’s time if a student has an undergrad performance degree.

Suzukimomto2 · February 9, 2010, 9:46pm

Indiana is now added to our list. She had a lesson tonight and her teacher reported a former student had very positive things to say about Indiana’s music ed program. The former student graduated last year from a master’s program there. Another student is presently concertmaster of the orchestra.

Suzukimomto2 · October 21, 2010, 3:33pm

Well, here we are 8 months later. My daughter has decided that she doesn’t want to pursue accounting. She realized she wanted to be involved with music everyday, not sitting in an office. She’s really kicked it up on notch with her music too. She’s taking music theory at her high school and it’s her favorite class. She’s practicing 2-3 hours a day.

She’s applying to Ithaca, Hartt, Indiana, Fredonia and Nazareth College. She had some lessons with a violinist who teaches at Naz this summer and although she doesn’t want to go there, it will be an opportunity to have her first audition experience.
Busy and exciting times.

Suzukimomto2 · October 21, 2010, 3:35pm

Oh, and another change - she’s going to try music ed and performance.

musicprnt · October 21, 2010, 9:32pm

There may be others with more experience on a dual major of music ed and performance, but from what I have seen of performance degrees I wonder if it will work any better then music ed with another major. I don’t know a lot about music ed, but from everything I hear it has a lot of requirements and is quite intense. I know a bit more about violin performance, and everything I hear is that it is pretty darn intense itself, it takes a lot of time, especially in practicing, and I wonder how easy it is to dual major (others on here might have kids who have gone that route).

As others have posted,including myself earlier this year, unless your D is certain that she might want to teach in a public school setting, she doesn’t have to go through music ed to teach. Private schools generally don’t require it from what I have seen (some may, of course), and for private studio teaching, the only studio teachers I have seen with Music Ed degrees are people who teach in the public schools and teach privately on the side (which is if that is what your daughter thinks she wants to do, obviously that informs her decision). Other then that, few private studio teachers bother. I will add that while all music is competitive, the violin is especially so, for a number of reasons, and if she is thinking of maybe being a performer she may be better served by focusing on her performance based work to bring her playing up as high as possible. Obviously, if she seriously thinks she wants to end up teaching in a public school, then she would have to do both.

I wish her luck, let us know what she ultimately ends up doing:)

Thread		Replies	Views
Hi all! An update.... Music Major	7	197	April 18, 2021
Searching for strong Masters degree programs for Instrumental Music Ed. (K-12) Music Major	2	47	April 18, 2021
! advice for my daughter??? Music Major	7	72	April 17, 2021
Music Ed/jazz Vocal Performance Music Major	5	77	April 18, 2021
Shenandoah Conservatory, strings Music Major	8	58	April 17, 2021

Advice for violinist daughter - music ed

POPULAR STATES

SEARCH SAT SCORES

SEARCH ACT SCORES

SEARCH GPA’S

Advice for violinist daughter - music ed

Related Topics

POPULAR STATES

SEARCH SAT SCORES

SEARCH ACT SCORES

SEARCH GPA’S

CONNECT WITH US