advice on future... oxford? or the ivies?

<p>i'm at trinity college (ct) and it seems to be going down the tubes. i have a 4.0 gpa and numerous excellent ec's and teacher recs. i'm assured of phi beta kappa and all that stuff. i got accepted to study abroad at oxford all of next year (i'm a sophomore). </p>

<p>should i stay here as the school drops more and more in the rankings? is it worth being at the top here? or should i still try to transfer out?</p>

<p>also, do i still, if i bite the bullet, still have time to apply to the ivies? or have i missed the deadline? i can do it all in a weekend, but scores are a different matter. </p>

<p>i feel like my schools sucks, and i don't want to go down in a burning ship. the top notch faculty can't make up for the shoddy caliber of the student body, i feel my mind atrophying when class discussions move so slowly. </p>

<p>i'd appreciate some advice or some perspective. my parents tell me i should stay and it'll ultimately look better being superlative here... but i wonder if could be be that way at a better school. and if trinity's continual decline will fuddle things up down the line.</p>

<p>think about this...you are at the top of your class at trinity. by no means is trininty a bad school, in fact, id go as far in saying that it is a notch or two below the ivys. you said it yourself, there is a top notch faculty at trinity. when you think about the future, its the education that you recieve which will lead you on the path of success. the school you attend plays a minor role, but like i said, in no way is trinity a bad school. </p>

<p>you can transfer, i have no qualms with that, but it seems to me your underlying reason is for prestige. clearly there are other bright students at trinity, i feel like you're only looking at a small sample size when conveying that the student body is "shoddy". you would definitely get into a few of the ivys but i think you're in a good situation right now. </p>

<p>graduating at the top of your class from trinity is better than graduating from PENN with a 3.3. the name will help you for a short amount of time but after that innitial wave wears off, its all on you and your performance.</p>

<p>i suggest you stay at trinity unless you have a blatently extreme reason to transfer. plus that opportunity to study abroad at oxford is amazing. </p>

<p>best of luck to you, and be sure to keep us posted.</p>

<p>
[quote]
** i'm assured of phi beta kappa

[/quote]
**</p>

<p>and that is how? Most schools the candidates are nominated and voted on. Phi Beta Kappa involves more than GPA.</p>

<p>
[quote]
**Since 1776, election to Phi Beta Kappa has been recognized as a distinct honor to those who meet the highest standards of achievement in the study of the liberal arts. The Epsilon Chapter at Trinity College, chartered in 1971, annually elects eligible juniors and seniors to membership based on their fulfillment of the requirements established by the Chapter and by Phi Beta Kappa.</p>

<p>Members-in-course are elected on the basis of scholarly achievement, broad intellectual interests, and good character. To be elected as a junior, a student must have a cumulative grade point average of 3.75 in at least 75 credits of course work in the liberal arts, 45 of which must have been in residence at Trinity College. To be elected as a senior, a student must have a cumulative grade point average of 3.5 in at least 90 hours of course work in the liberal arts, 45 of which must have been in residence at Trinity College. All students must have demonstrated knowledge in mathematics and of a second language as appropriate to an education in the liberal arts. Course work in applied or professional studies and grades earned in such work cannot be counted toward the hours required in the liberal arts. All students must be nominated by a member of the faculty in order to be considered for election. The number of graduates elected to Phi Beta Kappa from any class may never exceed 15% of the number of students receiving diplomas.

[/quote]
**</p>

<p>you're right hazmat, it does. pbk involves a number of factors, one of which is having a top 10% gpa, which i have. it also involves course rigor, ec's, and the rest. i've maintained a 4.0 in an honors program for the entire time i've been here. i have several officer/leadership positions in the school, and will only acquire more. i wasn't trying to in any way boast or act arrogant. by wrting "i am assured," i meant (and should have said) i feel assured... of pbk.</p>

<p>I am not against boasting for things one has earned but get your facts straight. The only way 10% plays into this whole discussion from your mouth......not in the requirements anywhere. Have you informed yourself of what it takes??? Your school seems to know. You could have the top GPA and not be voted in......just to let you know.</p>

<p>sorry hazmat, i probably should have included this in the first reply. i did exactly what you're telling me to do last year and did get my facts straight, emailing my chapter head. this is his reply:</p>

<p>"Thanks for your email. PBK has no languge requirement. There are some small complications, but generally it goes to the top %10 of each class as tetermined, more or less, by GPA."</p>

<p>I'd transfer, you are bound to still do well wherever you go (my roommate transferred from Colby to Dartmouth...he had a 4.0 at Colby but still a 3.8 at Dartmouth...btw he ended up getting into WashU, Yale, and Penn med schools) so don't worry competing. You will be able to compete anywhere.</p>

<p>Also, you will be amazed by the students at the Ivies. My ivy friends are inspiring, it seems like every other day I hear someone is starting harvard law, got a book published, or something else amazing. You end up having an incredibly talented group of friends, and I think that was a huge part of my education as well. You have about a month left to apply. Make sure to apply to Brown.</p>

<p>So your chapter head can override the rules posted for Trinity or your chapter posts rules but doesn't abide by them? Hmmmmmm</p>

<p>
[quote]
** "Thanks for your email. PBK has no languge requirement. There are some small complications, but generally it goes to the top %10 of each class as tetermined, more or less, by GPA."

[/quote]
**</p>

<p>
[quote]
**Since 1776, election to Phi Beta Kappa has been recognized as a distinct honor to those who meet the highest standards of achievement in the study of the liberal arts. The Epsilon Chapter at Trinity College, chartered in 1971, annually elects eligible juniors and seniors to membership based on their fulfillment of the requirements established by the Chapter and by Phi Beta Kappa.</p>

<p>Members-in-course are elected on the basis of scholarly achievement, broad intellectual interests, and good character. To be elected as a junior, a student must have a cumulative grade point average of 3.75 in at least 75 credits of course work in the liberal arts, 45 of which must have been in residence at Trinity College. To be elected as a senior, a student must have a cumulative grade point average of 3.5 in at least 90 hours of course work in the liberal arts, 45 of which must have been in residence at Trinity College. All students must have demonstrated knowledge in mathematics and of a second language as appropriate to an education in the liberal arts. Course work in applied or professional studies and grades earned in such work cannot be counted toward the hours required in the liberal arts. All students must be nominated by a member of the faculty in order to be considered for election. The number of graduates elected to Phi Beta Kappa from any class may never exceed 15% of the number of students receiving diplomas.

[/quote]
**</p>

<p>hazmat.. this is all beside the point. i assume it'll work out. assuming that it does, does my leaving for an ivy make sense?</p>

<p>also, slipper, that's one of the main reasons i consider the transfer option. i want friends who i'm really impressed by. what ivy are you at? and do i stand a chance at brown?</p>

<p>OK switching gears here. You have 2 years under your belt at Trinity and plan for study at Oxford next year? What school and discipline? A full year correct? I'd say you have little reason to transfer as you will be applying to grad programs almost as soon as you return from UK and you will need letters of rec and such from Trinity and you have done most of your course work there. Look to the time after undergrad and focus on that. If you weren't going abroad for an entire academic year the advice would be different. Is this a regular study abroad? Not an undergrad award for study? Correct?</p>

<p>Just think about what you are asking........you want to come to "my school" and compete against me who will have been at my school for 3 years and get the same recs and support....as an interloper. That is why I recommend against leaving Trinity. I would welcome you at my school but as you know loyalty does develop.</p>

<p>what are you studying at Oxford and where?</p>

<p>Hi Woland,</p>

<p>I went to Dartmouth. I am constantly astounded by the success of my classmates. Yesterday a friend called me to tell me that a mutual friend had just written the cover article for the New Yorker. I swear this happens constantly. </p>

<p>As for Brown, you have a shot. Its the only Ivy where its much easier to get in as a transfer so that is one reason its worth it to apply. Also, its a great place with incredibly open minded students and a great campus culture. Dartmouth is amazing to transfers in terms of the way they integrate transfers into campus life. Totally worth applying. The classes are steller, the kids are smart, and the campus life is awesome. I wrote about it a while back...I'll post what I wrote in a second.</p>

<p>I wrote this to a kid thinking of leaving Columbia...</p>

<p>I chose Dartmouth because of the people and because it was so transfer friendly - a small school with sophomore summer (so I could meet my entire class) and a tight community. It fulfilled my ever expectation, and socially was incredibly easy to assimilate into. People are so friendly and happy and there are a few reasons why its especially easy to find a niche (1 - frats rush sophomore year so you rush with your class, 2) Sophomore summer you meet your entire class (BIGGEST Dartmouth advantage), 3) Quarter system so its much easier to do study abroad as a transfer, 4) people are incredibly open to meeting new people, 5) you go on full orientation so you meet all the freshmen AND all the transfers unlike some other schools, 6) some of the best housing on campus. I found a real academic niche and honestly I had a great time even studying (Dartmouth library is very social and I loved the classes). The social scene is amazing, every frat has an open door policy and the entire campus gets an email with the big frat parties. Literally brothers make everyone feel at home, when playing beer pong it isn't "brothers only" like some b.s. frats at Columbia. Basically people make circuits from house to house and head to the big parties at midnight. The coolest thing also is the frats are down to earth, none of this intense elitism nonsense. You get a sense at Dartmouth that everyone likes everyone else, so much less judgemental. </p>

<p>While I felt like a number at Columbia in a big university (CUID, ACIS account, stand in a fast-food like line to talk to the financial aid office), Dartmouth was like home (even the President of the college tries to get to know as many students as he can). Dartmouth gave me a $8K grant to do my thesis research in the Marshall Islands, and when I started a company after graduation the college gave me free office space in Hanover and was very helpful in securing my company a very talented board of directors. Its just a totally different experience.</p>

<p>Woland what grad programs are you evaluating? what degree are you seeking?</p>

<p>hazmat, i'm going to oxford to study english literature (my major) at one of the top colleges. i'd rather not say which one. </p>

<p>i'm on the fence about grad school, and that's part of my "on the fence" feelings about transferring in general. </p>

<p>i'm probably going to get a masters after college and then apply to law school. a year abroad at oxford is appealing b/c i think it enhances my chances for a masters there. </p>

<p>btw, in terms of compitition between people like you who started at the ivies and me, i'll have two years to compete against your three. that doesn't necessarily seem horrible, does it?</p>

<p>sleeper, thanks for all the support in favor of transferring. i feel like you and hazmat are giving me a great take on both perspectives. i sent out my scores to dartmouth and brown, and will spend this weekend deciding whether or not to ask faculty for references and do the entire application process. </p>

<p>any more advice would help... i really don't know what to do. (i've posted my stats before)</p>

<p>and one more thing slipper... how has it been post graduation from an ivy? are things qualitively easier? ie job seeking, etc? do you have friends at 'lesser' schools that you've found had a harder/comparable time?</p>

<p>trinity college went up 11 spots in this years USNews, it was one of the greatest increases in rank this year....</p>

<p>i think you're mistaken, aca. it's been at or around spot 25 for years. and with the budget crises, it's due to fall considerably lower soon. early admission applications in relation to other nescacs are really, really down.</p>

<p>It sounds like you have some big plans for your future- I see no need to complicate things now. You do not seem unhappy at Trinity, and you are doing extremely well. You have an AMAZING opportunity to study at Oxford next year. If this is a full year study abroad program, I would absolutely go ahead and not worry about transferring. That will be a much more enjoyable, unique experiences that gradschools, master programs and future employers will admire than trying to start over at a new school all over again, making new friends and missing out on the chance to study abroad. At the pace you are going now, you are track to graduate from a nescac (little ivy) school at the very top of your class with honors (which employers will know) and go to virtually any grad school consdering you do well on your placement exam. I see no reason to risk it.</p>