Advice on the school with the best programs

College Search & Selection
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<p>Hello everyone, it is been a while although I do look around here on occasion. To get to the point, I recently made the decision to be an evolutionary biologist. As of now, this is general with no specialization in mind, for my major I was thinking Zoology but if it is impractical to rely on then suggestions would be helpful. It has just been what I have wanted to do since I was child. Currently I am attending a community college in Michigan with a 4.0 GPA, to be honest I had intended on transferring those grades to wherever I apply as my high school grades were not as spectacular due to personal issues. My ACT score is 25, my SAT score is unknown since I do not recall taking the SAT since middle school.</p>

<p>Now, the choices I am deciding on now are the University of California - Berkeley and Harvard. However, I am interested in my education most importantly, not prestige. Keep in mind, wherever I go I would need to also apply for a full scholarship as I am not wealthy enough for either, I barely have enough saved for community college. I have taken this career choice very seriously, meaning I am reading books and subscribed to Science magazine to stay current. Thank you anyone that took their time reading this!</p>

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<p>You need to go to the Financial Aid forum and read up on things. Go to the transfer forum and do the same.

You would be out of state for UCB and would only get federal aid which is a loan of $5500-7500/year. The out of state costs are ~$50K. Harvard DOES meet need, but they only accepted 1% of applicants for the last year their Common Data Set was published. <a href=“http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institutional_research/CDS_2011-2012_Final.pdf[/url]”>http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institutional_research/CDS_2011-2012_Final.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>You need to look in-state for affordable options. Are your parents going to help you pay for school?</p>

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<p>Oh my mistake, this is mostly focusing on which school more than anything. I was just saying that I would pretty much be relying on a full scholarship for any hope, becoming a citizen of that state first is something I would consider too. Returning to the point, to stay in state my best choice would probably be University of Michigan - Ann Arbor.</p>

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<p>You can’t just become a resident of Calif…your parents would have to move there. Plus, since you didn’t go to HS school there, you don’t qualify for the state aid…and I don’t think you qualify for Blue and Gold either.</p>

<p>Harvard really doesn’t accept transfers. the ones that are accepted have some “necessary” hook…such as when a prof is hired and a family member transfers and enrolls or an athlete is needed.</p>

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<p>The Universities of California have a STRONG preference for in-state community college transfers. They also are incredibly stingy with financial aid for out-of-state students, expecting them to pay full freight. In addition, they make it incredibly difficult to become a state resident for college tuition purposes (it’s not enough to just move to the state).</p>

<p>Harvard accepts almost no transfers. And they require high school grades AND test scores even for transfers. I mean, theoretically, it is possible, but very, very, very unlikely.</p>

<p>So… I think you are being incredibly unrealistic.</p>

<p>I think you should be looking at U Michigan & Michigan State. Outstanding educations at reasonable costs for in-state students.</p>

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<p>Well thank you for telling me all of that. I knew that you cannot just move to the state to become a citizen there, I was going to find whatever way possible that was the fastest in order to do it. I suppose I believed the myth that it was no different to apply to universities in other states than in yours. </p>

<p>I was honestly hoping for it true, the more distance between me and Michigan the better. Specifically my family but very long story. Also, your username oddly being the exact two universities I was considering is hilariously coincidental.</p>

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<p>I suppose I have to choose if U of M or MSU has better evolutionary biology programs. I would think U of M, I see them making more discoveries than MSU. Actually, the E. coli Long Term Experimental Evolution Project is the only major one at MSU of which I am aware. Plus, I have friends at U of M. Unless someone says MSU is in fact the better school, it looks like U of M is the answer. Now I guess my major is what I have to be concerned with choosing.</p>

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<p>Where you go to undergrad doesn’t matter as much as where you go to grad school. If you want to be an evolutionary biologist, you’ll need a PhD, and in that case where you choose to do your PhD will matter very much. But you can go get a PhD at a top biology program from any reputable, accredited school. What matters is what you do there - working as a research assistant, doing a summer research program, and writing a strong statement of purpose, as well as getting strong recommendations from professors.</p>

<p>In that case, it doesn’t matter whether you choose Michigan or Michigan State. Michigan is, of course, a top notch research university with lots of opportunities to assist professors in research, so going there would be great. But I suspect that Michigan is also more expensive than Michigan State, so if it makes financial sense to go there, do so - professors at Michigan State do research too and you can assist them in their research to get the experience you need.</p>

<p>If evolutionary biology is your interest, then the obvious major choice at Michigan is ecology and evolutionary biology (EEB), but they also have biology, general biology, and plant biology.</p>

<p>At Michigan State, you could do biochemistry and molecular biology, biomedical laboratory science, clinical laboratory science, environmental biology (concentrating in either microbiology, plant biology or zoology), genomics and molecular genetics, human biology, microbiology, plant biology or zoology. (Yes, those are all undergraduate majors! I was very surprised). Michigan State also has an ecology, evolutionary biology and behavior graduate program that you could take courses in, and there is a [LONG[/url</a>] list of faculty members that do research in evolution.</p>

<p>Actually, given the wide range of majors they have in this field and that long list of faculty, I was really curious as to how Michigan State ranked for evolutionary biology. Turns out that it’s in the top 15-20 programs [url=&lt;a href=“NRC Rankings Overview: Ecology and Evolutionary Biology”&gt;NRC Rankings Overview: Ecology and Evolutionary Biology]according</a> to the National Research Council](<a href=“https://eebb.msu.edu/faculty.pl?list=RA&sublist=1]LONG[/url”>https://eebb.msu.edu/faculty.pl?list=RA&sublist=1). Its zoology department is also in the top 25, and its fisheries and wildlife department in the top 35. The University of Michigan is also in the the top 15, but Michigan State’s department is actually ranked (a little) higher.</p>

<p>So it looks like it really doesn’t matter which one you go to, and you should probably go to whichever one gives you the most bang for your buck. CoA at Michigan is $28,000; Michigan State looks like it’s around $22,000 per year. That’s not a very big difference, honestly!</p>

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<p>You make a good point, ha ha ha. Remember though, I am getting my Associate’s degree at the community college now. I forgot to mention, I could probably get a recommendation actually from a professor at University of Michigan. I job shadowed her when I was in high school. Actually, I started e-mailing her recently but I would hate if she thought I was fishing for a recommendation. </p>

<p>Well then, based on your statements it seems it matters which major I choose, EEB and U of M or Zoology and MSU.</p>

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<p>Oh, right, the reason I making full scholarship a key aspect is because I really cannot expect to be in contact with my family, especially parents, when I go to a university. Besides my father being a Creationist who would not support me (that believes aliens created humans and that giants existed because it is in the Bible, do not ask how that works), they would be outraged at my personal choices as if it was still before the 60s if it is starting to make sense…</p>

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<p>It’s easy to apply to private colleges out of state but not to public OOS universities. In addition, the top colleges don’t accept a lot of transfers since very few of their students leave.
Some colleges you may consider: highly selective - Emory (EEPB), Rice, Brown (Biomed), Cornel- Cornell tales relatively more transfers than most, USC (also takes more transfers than most), Dartmouth. They’re all super-reaches though so, apply to UMich and MSU, then to a handful of those, and go where it’s the cheapest. Even if you’re at UMich or MSU, you wouldn’t see your parents, but you’d need them to sign your FAFSA… Are we to understand this would be a problem?
(If you really need to get away from Michigan and those other universities don’t work out, check out Juniata College, Dickinson, St Olaf, Hope - they’re LACs so their biology offerings aren’t comparable to what large state universities offer, but they’re pretty good in the sciences; look at the catalog. Would your parents be okay with Christian colleges like St Olaf or Hope, or would they consider them “not really Christian”? Would it be enough if the department were simply “Biology” and not EEB? I’m not sure these colleges are the best choice but they may be a plan B.)</p>

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<p>I think I would rather not go to any Christian college, by no means am I an anti-theist, it would just be a poor choice for my career path. Honestly, Michigan works enough. I have a plan with a friend of mine and this way she gets to be close to her fiance. U of M and MSU are both great schools and would be the best and easiest financial choices. Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am more than willing to have a job and go to college at the same time.</p>

<p>I really do not know much about financial aid but I am applying for it soon. Would it be a one time signature or yearly updates? My mom is not a Creationist, the only reason I could see her not supporting that career is for employment rate. So if I would just need one signature at the university I would be fine. It would not be a for I assume a few months before they do not want contact with me.</p>

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<p>I cited St Olaf and Hope because they’re highly respected in the sciences. St Olaf students have research internships at the Mayo Clinic. Hope has an amazing premed program (ie, biology and biochemistry are very strong). They’re not anti-science if that’s what you mean by “Christian” (since it sounds like that’s what your father means by Christian and that’s why I asked whether it’d mollify him or whether he’d see the schools are “not really Christian”. They’re serious about science and affiliated to a faith; Hope is more conservative, St Olaf is more liberal. However neither is “creationist”, since that’s belief, not science. You might enjoy reading the novel _ Living Witness_ by Jane Haddam BTW. It’s about a small PA town torn apart between parents who want creationism taught in the public schools and parents who don’t, and then the most influential person is murdered. It does a very good job presenting the different points of view.)
[Biology</a> ? St. Olaf College](<a href=“http://wp.stolaf.edu/biology/]Biology”>Biology – St. Olaf College)
[Home</a> | Hope College Biology](<a href=“Biology Department | Hope College”>Biology Department | Hope College)
However in your case I agree UMich and MSU are the best choices. I was just trying to think of a plan B if your parents didn’t agree on an “evolutionary biology” major at a secular school.</p>

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<p>Honestly, I am not sure. If St. Olaf is a reputable school for Biology that accepts evolution then my dad might still be opposed or just a call it “a liberal school with a bunch of fake Christians.” I appreciate your answers and thank you but I should not choose which school I enroll in to make him happy. Also, the book is noted.</p>

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<p>Just tell your parents you are going to get a BS. You don’t need to go out of your way to discuss the major do you? Make a point to get along as you finish your last 2 years. </p>

<p>All undergraduate degrees are good for jobs as opposed no undergraduate degree. You could go work in business with any undergraduate degree. The unemployment rate for recent college graduates is 8.9% as opposed to recent hs graduates at 22.9%. New bio majors unemployment is 7.7%, and with experience 4.6%. If you get a graduate degree that rate will drop to 1.6%</p>

<p>You should go to the financial aid forum and read the pinned threads about how aid works. FAFSA needs to be filed each year.</p>

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<p>I would not HAVE to tell them my major but it is probably going to come up. Right now I just give a vague response but I lose being able to do that once I go to a university where you must pick a major.</p>

<p>Thank you I will do that now. When I initially even mentioned financial aid though it was just to give more information about my circumstances, not asking about financial aid.</p>

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<p>Creationism is a belief and beliefs do not belong to science. It is respectable as a belief but no reputable college in the US would teach it as a science, Christian or not. </p>

<p>This website (Theory of Knowledge) would probably interest you a lot.
[theoryofknowledge.net</a> | The ultimate resource for knowledge](<a href=“http://www.theoryofknowledge.net/]theoryofknowledge.net”>http://www.theoryofknowledge.net/)</p>