Advice Please : Non resident American - Admissions Issues

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I am an American citizen living in Bangladesh, studying under the British academic - O/A Level system. I need some help deciding where to go. Here are my stats:</p>

<p>GPA: 4.0 ( in a 4.0 scale)</p>

<p>Class Rank: 1 in 40</p>

<p>AP : 4 subjects - Math, Physics, Chemistry and Biology</p>

<p>Special Academic Awards : Highest no. of A's acheived in Bangladesh Ordinary Level exams,
World's highest marks in Ordinary Level English Language
3rd highest marks worldwide in O Level Physics and Mathematics</p>

<p>ECAs: Intensive in Debate - 5 national campionship finals, possible member of debate team which will represent Bangladesh in the 2010 World Schools' Debating Championship. I also hope to voluntarily tutor low income academically weak students from our school from next month.</p>

<p>SAT 1 : CR 750 M 680 Wr 690 ( failed to live up to the Asian Math stereotype - retaking SATs in May 09 scores should move up to the high 2200s)</p>

<p>SAT 2 : 2 in October 2009 and 2 more in November 2009. All scores should be in the high 700s.</p>

<p>For those who don't know, the Ordinary Levels are standardized exams for all students at the end of the 10th grade based on our school curriculum. My main strengths are the sciences. So, would anyone please where I should go for college. I would prefer a highly stimulating and competitive academic environment.</p>

2

<p>The good news is that as a US citizen, you will be eligible for federally determined financial aid including student loans. You will need your parents' income tax information for your financial aid applications. If your parents are US citizens or permanent residents, they should filing US income tax returns every whether they owe US taxes or not - read all about it at Internal</a> Revenue Service If your parents are not US citizens or permanent residents, and only file taxes for another country (or countries) you will need to sit down with the paper version of the FAFSA form and figure out what to do to report those foreign taxes. You can download this at FAFSA</a> - Free Application for Federal Student Aid You and your parents should also run your financial figures through the FAFSA and CSSProfile estimators available at College</a> Calculators - savings calculators - college costs, loans so that you have a better idea of what the colleges and universities will expect you to pay.</p>

<p>For some good ideas on colleges and universities that admit students with your profile from Pakistan, you should make an appointment with the counselors at the local office of EducationUSA. I used to work with these people in Latin America, and they really are the experts. Don't forget to read the rest of their website too! Educational</a> Advising Centers ? EducationUSA</p>

<p>Most colleges and universities in the US are used to dealing with international students, and will be able to understand your academic record. What you need to concentrate on is finding a place that offers the major you are interested in, and that you can afford. Depending on the state of your last US residence, it may be possible for you to qualify for in-state tuition at a public university. Each state makes its own policies about the requirements for residence, so you will have to investigate this on a case-by-case basis.</p>

<p>Wishing you all the best!</p>

3

<p>Happymom, thanks for your advice. First off, I really need to clarify this, Bangladesh is an independent country. It used to be part of Pakistan, but we received independence in 1971 after a very bloody 9 month liberation war. But it is totally understandable that you don't know the details. Bangladesh has just begun to put itself on the map (incidentally we are a big readymade garments exporter - H&M , JcPenney and Gap import around 50% of their clothing from Bangladesh)</p>

<p>About the Educational Advising Centers, yes we have one of those in Dhaka and I am a member, but the guidance counselor I am sad to say isnt of much help. I am a bit of a math geek and I am really good overall in the sciences. So I am thinking about getting ( fulfilling the typical Asian stereotype) an engineering degree. </p>

<p>My parents are both naturalized US cititzens and my dad is filing tax returns every year so I believe I am eligible for FAFSA.</p>

<p>So, besides namebrand colleges like MIT and CalTech and Stanford, are there any anyone would recommend. I unfortunately do not have the option of visiting colleges to get a feel for them.</p>

4

<p>I can't believe I made that dumb a mistake! I am absolutely mortified. Of course I know that these are two different countries. I even remember reading about the war of independence in the newspapers while it was happening back when I was in HS. Please forgive me.</p>

<p>Your biggest issue is going to be money. You need to run the EFC calculators with your parents. Then you need to talk with them and find out just exactly how much money they have available, and where it will come from. This is no time for them to be secretive, or for you to allow yourself to be in denial about money. You will have to find the strength to be completely honest about it. "Don't worry, we'll find it somewhere." Is not an acceptable answer.</p>

<p>Wherever you end up studying, engineering will be "highly stimulating and competitive". That is the nature of an Engineering program. You can study engineering at just about any public university. This also means that just about any community college offers the first two years of that state's engineering program, with guaranteed transfer into at least one of that state's public universities. What is the state of your parents' last US residence? Which state is their voting residence? Start with that state's public universities and find out what you would have to do to be considered an in-state resident there. (By the way, once you are 18 you can register to vote in that state too.)</p>

<p>As a US citizen living overseas, you can participate in the National Merit Scholarship competition. In order to do so, you would need to take the PSAT exam, which normally students take in their next to last year of high school. You may be able to get permission to take it next fall by contacting the College Board PSAT/NMSQT</a> - The Preliminary SAT/National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test</p>

<p>To a large extent, an engineering degree is an engineering degree. This means that except for the Famous Names, you can pick your list based on weather, price, proximity to an international airport, cute-girl-to-cute-boy-ratio or whatever else you please. My favorite place for engineering is Iowa State. But that is just because when I was studying Agriculture there, half of my friends were engineers. They've all had successful careers and are leading productive lives all these years later.</p>

5

<p>Happymom, I really appreciate the fact you actually know about Bangladesh. Whenever I mention Bangladesh to anyone, I usually face a repeat of a 'Are you smarter than a 5th grader' situation. They are like - 'Bangladesh, is that a country or a city?'</p>

<p>I was born in New York. I lived there until I was 9 but then my grandmother ( dad's mother) got really ill and we had to come to take care of her. There are no nursing homes in Bangladesh, and even if there were, my dad wouldn't be comfortable with leaving her in one. So I have to check whether that makes me an in-state student to universities in NY.</p>

<p>Money is and will be as you said the biggest issue. My parents are very open about how much they earn and I should qualify for high levels of financial aid but even if I don't get much, my father's credit ratings mean that even in this crunch his bank is offering up to 120000 dollars unsecured student loans per year. Although I am aware of loans as an option, I am really not comfortable with having to carry a huge debt out of college. I am running the numbers and the EFCs are within my family's limits although a bit of a stretch.</p>

<p>The NMSQT kind of confused me. As far I have seen on CC, the PSAT is usually taken by sophomores and even in some cases by freshmen. Is it right for me? I really don't know much about it.</p>

<p>But the biggest problem is college choice. My parents are insistent on Famous Names but I don't want to totally rule out other colleges. Is there any way I can convince them? I'm pretty sure you've been through something like this, or at least seen or heard of these situations.</p>

<p>And finally, Happymom, you've been a big help. Thanks a lot.</p>

6

<p>The PSAT can be taken whenever you like, but it only counts for NMSQT in the junior year.</p>

<p>We can help you more if you disclose your EFC. A very low EFC (commensurate with "high levels of FA") may not be met fully by all colleges, and that "meeting" will almost always include loans + workstudy.</p>

7

<p>Do you plan to make your career in the US, or elsewhere? If you plan to stay here, the chances of you paying off your college debt may be a bit better than if you plan to return to Bangladesh. Also, where you plan to make your career may indeed affect your choice of college. In some countries any degree from any US college or university is good enough. In other places only one or two colleges/universities count, and they may not even what are considered "famous" in the US, just places where students from that country have traditionally studied.</p>

<p>What branch of engineering do you think you might specialize in? Electrical and Mechanical engineering can be found just about anywhere. Petroleum and Agricultural engineering are found at fewer schools. For something like Marine Engineering, well the options are very limited.</p>

<p>As a citizen, you do have the option of just moving back to the US, getting some kind of job in the state where you would like to study, and working there for a year or so in order to establish in-state residence. This wouldn't make you independent for financial aid reasons, but if you are working there and paying state income taxes it should make you an in-state resident. New York State has excellent public universities. Take a good look at the SUNY and CUNY systems, and find out which universities offer engineering programs. Check their rules for re-establishing state residency. That will help you figure out if you want to be there.</p>

<p>Taking the PSAT can be useful not just for the scholarship aspects, but also because it will get you on a lot of college/university email lists. This is an easy way to get a lot of information about a lot of different schools.</p>

<p>You have good grades and good test scores. You may be eligible for some good merit scholarships at second and third tier universities. Take a look at the two threads by momfromtexas. She found full-ride scholarships for both of her sons.
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you plan to work as a licensed engineer in the US, the specific process varies a little from one state/territory to another, but in general the steps are the same:
Licensure</a> for Engineers - NCEES
All that really matters is that you graduate from an ABET accredited program. For a current list check their website: [url=<a href="http://www.abet.org/accredited_programs.shtml%5DABET%5B/url"&gt;http://www.abet.org/accredited_programs.shtml]ABET[/url&lt;/a&gt;]
Other than starting a professional network in a specific part of the country, or a specific branch of engineering, your choice of college/university is not critical.</p>

<p>It is wonderful that your parents are willing to help you with your college expenses, but you do not want to end up $160,000 in debt for a college/university education! There are a lot of other things that you, and they, could do with that much money.</p>

8

<p>nra, I am an American living in Southeast Asia. I think that your background would be of interest to many US colleges, but that you need to focus your approach somewhat differently and think more about what you can offer to the college community.</p>

<p>First, your status as an American national will help you both in admissions and in aid. You will contribute to the college's diversity percentage, but they won't have to worry about your visa and (presumably) language skills.</p>

<p>The landscape on financial aid is undergoing a seismic shift. What was available last year may not be available next year. Needblind may not survive. Those who can pay will have an advantage. Having said that money is still available, but colleges will use it to "buy" the students they want, and balancing their classes culturally will continue to play a role in admissions.</p>

<p>So what can you offer? South Asians are NOT under represented at selective American colleges. The distinction between India, Pakistan and Bangladesh is a fair point, but may be too nuanced for general application. You need to think your approach through more thoroughly. </p>

<p>What exactly separates you from other South Asians? What is your point of differentiation? </p>

<p>Religion? Are you Muslim? If yes, good. Islam is a powerful draw at college today. Use it to your advantage.</p>

<p>Bi-culturalism? Again, good. People who have successfully bridged disparate cultures and can articulate their experience are also valuable in the college community.</p>

<p>First hand experience in a developing country? Again, very good. Your classmates will be going to countries like Bangladesh for study abroad experiences. You're the real deal.</p>

<p>It's these points of differentiation that are going to get your application into the accept pile, not just your grades and Western-style extracurriculars. </p>

<p>As far as your list of schools: As mentioned above the Famous Names are awash with South Asians (and East Asians). I would suggest that you look at some small liberal arts colleges that provide superb academics and for whom your background would be a strong positive. Need based financial aid is good at the top LACs and the schools that are located in the midwest or in rural communities may offer merit aid for the diversity that you could bring to their communities. </p>

<p>Few LACs offer engineering degrees, though. It's not clear whether this is a must or a maybe on your wish list. If you can accept math or one of the sciences then you'll have lots of choices.</p>

<p>PS, get your facts straight. While many of the major US and European brands -- including Gap, H&M and JCP -- do import from Bangladesh and while Bangladesh is a growing market, the percentage of business placed in Bangladesh is NOWHERENEAR 50%. For these three brands I would guess Bangladesh would represent more like 5-10%.</p>

9

<p>I think its unfortunate that most American's knowledge of geography doesn't expand to south Asia but how many Bangladeshis can point to Idaho on a map. Bangladesh is about half the size of Idaho. I hope for the best for you in your admissions hunt.</p>

10

<p>Momrath, sorry for the extra zero. I know that the average hovers around 5-6%. A small typo. Sorry.</p>

<p>Engineering is, as you said full of South Asians and it isn't really at the top of my demands. I think I would be happy studying with a focus on the sciences. And so I guess I am willing to study in a top LAC. But I am also reluctant to move too far beyond the East Coast. </p>

<p>Also, I just don't think I should just write out those famous names. Yes, I am a Muslim. I am a second generation immigrant living in my country of ethnic origin. Adjusting to two different cultures hasn't been too big a problem. I believe I have a lot to give to a college. But so do a lot of others. Would anyone suggest a good liberal arts college with a strong science background?</p>

11

<p>nra,
[quote]
Would anyone suggest a good liberal arts college with a strong science background?

[/quote]

There are many. On the Eastcoast Williams, Amherst, Hamilton, Bowdoin. Middlebury. These are all rural colleges with excellent academics that would be very interested in someone with your profile. Swarthmore is also an excellent choice (and it offers engineering), but gets more South Asians than the others.</p>

<p>I would strongly suggest you consider Williams because of the combination of math/science and the focus on developmental economics.</p>

<p>I'd also look to the mid-West: Kenyon, Carlton, Macalester, Grinnell. Again, you'd not be the typical applicant. Macalester is especially friendly to multi-cultural kids. Many of these would offer merit money.</p>

<p>Your essays are the place to write about your life experience -- not directly, but through a significant event that reflects your challenges or accomplishments. This should be reinforced in your resume, your recommendations.</p>

<p>Good luck and let us know how you do.</p>

<p>PS, And be prepared to debate the ethics of making clothes in Bangladesh. Your colleagues will believe their H&M shirt was made by children chained to their machines. :)</p>

12

<p>I just keep getting surprised at the amount of advice I'm getting. </p>

<p>@Momrath - I was already considering Grinnell, Macalester, Carlton and Amherst. But do you think I am a total no go at MIT, CalTech, and Columbia? I just can't right those off. My scores are within the range. If I am disqualified just for my South Asian ethnic identity, that would be outright discrimination. The American university wannabe community is very small in Dhaka and everyone keeps track. I have classmates applying only to the Ivies thinking that they'll get in just by the force of their academic record. And they are international applicants! That's an even tougher pool. </p>

<p>There are also a lot of family hopes resting on me. I will be first generation. My father wants to prove that a good education is possible in Bangladesh. All these factors means that if I even raise the issue of applying to second tier or top LACs - I am immediately accused of not aiming high enough. I know CC is not a therapy website, but a little advice in dealing with 'helicopter parents' would be welcome.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
But do you think I am a total no go at MIT, CalTech, and Columbia?

[/quote]

No, absolutely not! You have a reasonably good chance at those or any super-selective college. However, their applicant pools are very competitive and you will be one of many, many accomplished contenders. </p>

<p>I didn't mean that your personal profile would work against you. What I meant is that it may not help you, the way it would at a school that would use your points of differentiation to increase their diversity percentages. This is exponentially true if you want/need merit money.</p>

<p>If international prestige is one of your top priorities, then stay away from small LACs. Even the top rated schools -- Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore -- barely raise an eyebrow in Asia. However, if you really want a profoundly good education and an excellent entree to graduate or professional school then you should consider an LAC.</p>

<p>I am not Asian myself but I know Asian parents. They want the best for you, but don't always understand the breadth and depth of higher education choices in America. Since your family is quite "Americanized" you have a headstart on convincing them that there are many routes to a worldclass education and eventually a renumerative and satisfying livelihood. </p>

<p>My advice is to apply to a balanced list of schools: In selectivity, in size, in financial support. As I said above, next year is going to be uncharted territory because no one can fully predict how the colleges will cope with the economic crisis, so apply to as many as you can handle. Aim high, certainly, but have a Plan B, especially financially.</p>

<p>Then, once you get your acceptances and understand the finances, come back and we'll talk. Good luck and let us know how you do.</p>

14

<p>To all of the people who replied in this thread thanks a lot. All the advice is really helping out. Momrath, a special thank you to you. After I made my parents read the last post, they have really changed their minds. They are still adamant about applying to four 'Famous Name' but instead of two LAC safeties, I am now allowed to add three more top LACs to my application list. That would make ten schools, a nice round figure. </p>

<p>I am not that interested in raising an eyebrow in Asia. I am interested in raising an eyebrow to the kids of my dads peer group in the stated. I am pretty sure Amherst will raise an eyebrow back there in the States. </p>

<p>I am about to take a long break from college confidential. Retaking the SAT 1 in May and A Levels in June. I'll catch up later when it's time to begin filling in the applications. </p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>