Advice re: colleges like WVU

College Search & Selection
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<p>We're just starting the college search for our twin HS Juniors. They like WVU -- location, small town setting, lots of school spirit and D1 sports.</p>

<p>My daughters are "just" B+ students so WVU seems within reach. I've read most of the reference threads and it seems that OSU, Penn State, UVA, etc. do not offer merit to out of staters unless applicants are academic elites, relatively speaking. Is this conclusion accurate?</p>

<p>Assuming so, does anyone have similar schools (to WVU) to recommend? NYS doesn't have a "flagship" school like other states with all that school spirit. The smaller SUNY campuses (and climate) are less inviting.</p>

<p>This does get to the question about schools that are generous with merit aid, but I'm looking for a more focused response -- around location, size, setting, etc.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance!
Nick</p>

2

<p>University at Buffalo is about as close as you will get for what you want, and with a full sticker price of $20K a year for in staters, It’s not a bad deal at all. Though WVU may have more merit awards, they do tend to be small, and getting the price down to SUNY levels is not likely without some test scores in the upper echelon. </p>

<p>I’ve known B+ students who got into Penn State, Pitt, OSU from out of state, but without test scores in the upper ranges of what they give merit, it’s not likely to happen. The OOS price for PSU is twice that of Buffalo. </p>

<p>My niece goes to WVU as an OOS student, loves it there, was an A-, B+ student, no merit money. She did look at VTech, Miami of Ohio, Kent State. University of Ohio, UTennesee, Another school reaching out to OOSers is University of Alabama. Michigan State is another possibility</p>

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<p>Thanks cpt…
So Michigan State is a possibility, in terms of merit for OOS student? Thanks for the advice.
I grew up next to UB and have a somewhat jaded opinion – split campuses, going to class on a bus, highly international, cold…!</p>

<p>I’ll look into U of Alabama. Thanks!</p>

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<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16451378-post300.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16451378-post300.html&lt;/a&gt; and <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16224918-post50.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16224918-post50.html&lt;/a&gt; might help you with big merit scholarships.</p>

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<p>This does get to the question about schools that are generous with merit aid, but I’m looking for a more focused response – around location, size, setting, etc.</p>

<p>You need to first determine what’s affordable before your kids get their hearts set on schools you can’t afford. Often, OOS publics are NOT affordable unless your kids have very high test scores, the school gives large merit, and/or you’re willing to pay all costs.</p>

<p>I don’t know if WVU is generous with merit, but I know that PSU isn’t…not at all. Unless you’re prepared to pay a LOT ($40k per year) for PSU, then encourage your D’s to look elsewhere.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that schools who are generous w/ merit aren’t generous with MOST students. They tend to be generous with the students whose test scores are WELL-WITHING the top 25% of the school…usually the top 5-10%</p>

<p>Since you’re just starting out, figure out how much you can spend on each child. You’re looking at OOS publics which don’t give much/any need-based aid to OOS students…especially if they’re not Pell eligible. And even if they are Pell eligible, the small Pell grant will likely be the only free money that you’d get for need-based aid.</p>

<p>UAlabama is the most generous with merit school out there with a ranking as good as it has. No other higher ranked school gives out merit like it does for the req’d stats. However, you have to have the stats req’d.</p>

<p>CAPSTONE SCHOLAR</p>

<p>A first-time freshman student who meets the December 15 scholarship priority deadline, has a 27 ACT or 1210–1240 SAT score (critical reading and math scores only) and at least a 3.5 cumulative GPA will be selected as a Capstone Scholar and will receive $14,000 over four years ($3,500 per year).</p>

<p>COLLEGIATE SCHOLAR</p>

<p>A first-time freshman student who meets the December 15 scholarship priority deadline, has a 28 ACT or 1250–1280 SAT score (critical reading and math scores only) and at least a 3.5 cumulative GPA will be selected as a Collegiate Scholar and will receive $16,000 over four years ($4,000 per year).</p>

<p>**This award and below are where the bigger merit starts **</p>

<p>FOUNDATION IN EXCELLENCE SCHOLARSHIP </p>

<p>A first-time freshman student who meets the December 15 scholarship priority deadline, has a 29 ACT or 1290–1320 SAT score (critical reading and math scores only) and at least a 3.5 cumulative GPA will be selected as a Foundation in Excellence Scholar and receive the value of one-half tuition or $47,900 over four years ($11,975 per year).</p>

<p>UA SCHOLAR</p>

<p>A first-time freshman student who meets the December 15 scholarship priority deadline, has a 30–31 ACT or 1330–1390 SAT score (critical reading and math scores only) and at least a 3.5 cumulative GPA will be selected as a UA Scholar and will receive the value of two-thirds tuition or $64,184 over four years ($16,046 per year).</p>

<p>PRESIDENTIAL SCHOLAR</p>

<p>A first-time freshman student who meets the December 15 scholarship priority deadline, has a 32–36 ACT or 1400–1600 SAT score (critical reading and math scores only) and at least a 3.5 cumulative GPA will be selected as a Presidential Scholar and will receive the value of tuition or $95,800 over four years ($23,950 per year).</p>

<p>ALSO…For Eng’g and CS majors, if they qualify for 2/3 tuition, then Eng’g gives the other 1/3 tuition. Plus all those who qualify for UA Scholar or Presidential get an add’l 2500 per year from Eng’g.</p>

<p>Again, no other higher ranked school is going to be this generous with big merit scholarships. These scholarships are assured for stats as long as the student applies before Dec 1. There are a good number of NY students at Bama. NY is #7 or #8 in sending students to Bama.</p>

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<p>My daughters are “just” B+ students so WVU seems within reach</p>

<p>Getting accepted to state schools isn’t often hard. Getting the merit that you may need is a whole 'nother story.</p>

<p>Have any of your kids taken the SAT or ACT? Have them practice and take both.
How do they do on standardized tests?</p>

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<p>Nickomb, Buffalo has a lot going for it. It never made any of my lists until I visited, and I have to say, that the biggest issue I have about it are the three Rs in terms of popular knowledge–Ratings, Reputation and Recognitions (Name). But when I checked it out, I came to the conclusion that it is truly an underated school. The quality of what it offers and the amount it offers is really tremedous. The sky is the limit in terms of academic offerings there, as it has comprehensive graduate departments,and the school has great facilities and amenities. Also a lot of kids move off campus into the South Campus “ghetto” which means cheap living bringing the price down further. Lots of job opportunities for the students, and Buffalo is not a small town. You can get most anything there, and the cultural draw is there. It’s down in the dumps in terms of cities that size, but it still offers far more than one will get in smaller venues, far more. Close to Niagara Falls and the Canadian border too. I really found it a gem of a school when I looked carefully. And for New Yorkers, you can’t beat the price. </p>

<p>UMass Amherst often gives awards that bring the sticker price down for OOSers.</p>

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<p>They took the PSAT a few weeks ago. I’m awaiting the results. I plan to have them take a prep class for the real SAT in the Spring. Then I’ll have a better idea as to where they sit. </p>

<p>Looks like I’ll need to take a closer look at in state. 1 daughter really wants to go OOS and has declared that. (we have not yet discussed cost sharing or the trade offs…)</p>

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<p>It is important to discuss the financial constraints early, so that the students have a realistic idea of what is affordable when doing the college search. You don’t want the situation where the student ends up with a bunch of acceptances, all of which are far too expensive. Fortunately, if they are juniors now, you and they have plenty of time.</p>

<p>It may be worth taking both the SAT and ACT in junior year, to allow a retake (after additional preparation) of whichever is initially higher if a higher score would be helpful.</p>

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<p>**Originally Posted by nickkomp27
Looks like I’ll need to take a closer look at in state. 1 daughter really wants to go OOS and has declared that. (we have not yet discussed cost sharing or the trade offs…)</p>

<hr>

<p>It is important to discuss the financial constraints early, so that the students have a realistic idea of what is affordable when doing the college search. You don’t want the situation where the student ends up with a bunch of acceptances, all of which are far too expensive. Fortunately, if they are juniors now, you and they have plenty of time.**</p>

<p>Very true.</p>

<p>Kids can make all kinds of declarations: “I’m definitely going out of state” or whatever, but often these same kids have no idea about how college costs get covered. Some think that parents can pay more than they can. Some think that they can borrow their way thru. Some think that merit or aid will magically cover their costs.</p>

<p>It’s best for you to figure out how much you can pay each year for each child …and let them KNOW that.</p>

<p>Also, let them know that the following are the amounts that they can borrow w/o co-signers:
$5500 frosh
$6500 soph
$7500 jr
$7500 sr</p>

<p>IF you won’t co-sign additional loans (and most parents won’t), then let them know that. </p>

<p>And, if they know that they need X scores to get enough merit to particular schools, then they need to know that now.</p>

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<p>My two oldest wanted nothing to do with any instate options. Then when the final reckoning came, one of the SUNYs was right up there in his choices. I regret I stayed neutral because he would have gone there had I said anything to affect that decision. My second went to a SUNY and I truly believe it was his best option, and after paying 15 years of loans on the first one, it’ a relief that we didn’t need to borrow for the second.</p>

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<p>They like WVU – location, small town setting, lots of school spirit and D1 sports.</p>

<p>Are there SUNYs that would offer the above? </p>

<p>It sounds like they have the “traditional college look and rah rah experience” in mind.</p>

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<p>D1 sports appear to only be at Albany, Buffalo, Stony Brook, and Bing. <a href=“https://www.suny.edu/student/search_athletics/search.cfm[/url]”>https://www.suny.edu/student/search_athletics/search.cfm&lt;/a&gt; Buffalo has good football but it’s not small town. Bing is small town but I’m not sure about their sports.</p>

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<p>Buffalo would fit the bill, though the town is not small. BUt the south campus is in a college ghetto type area and that’s where a lot of the student find off campus digs, and that area very much caters to the college crowd. SUNY New Paltz has a wonderful little town setting, but no D1 sports, which Buffalo has. </p>

<p>With SAT scores not up in the stratosphere, a couple of thousand dollar in sweetening off of an already low in state SUNY cost can make Buffalo a great deal. They do give out $2500 scholarships for Honors COllege kids, and it’s not that difficult to make that cut. Also, there is that opportunity to reduce costs in the upper class years because many of the kids do live off campus. ALso finding part time work is not difficult there. So I think OP could get way with $20K a year for all four years without too much difficulty per child and the school does have just about every major and is solid academically, with D1 sports and an active campus life. The performing arts center is first rate so students are right there to see all kinds of shows. Buffalo is a city having rough times, but it’s still got the size and clout for all kinds of happenings. The school has a sleek state of the art campus connected by half hourly buses to an older city site, so you have the best of both worlds there. For NY state resident who want to send their kid to sleepaway school and don’t qualify for aid, kid not quite there for sizeable merit, this is as about as good as it gets in terms of bang for the buck.</p>

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<p>*So I think OP could get way with $20K a year for all four years without too much difficulty per child and the school does have just about every major and is solid academically, with D1 sports and an active campus life. *</p>

<p>Yes, if the parents can pay $40k per year for the two girls then Buffalo would be a good choice. Actually my guess is that w/o high test scores, they’re going to be paying at least that much for OOS schools as well, if popular Div 1 sports is desired. </p>

<p>Miss State is known to give good merit for scores in the ACT 28 range. I think remaining costs would be around instate…which would still be about $20k per child. </p>

<p>If merit is needed for affordability, then lay it on the line now to the girls. Tell them, you need at least X stats for these OOS schools to be affordable. Then the ball is in their court. They either meet that goal…or not.</p>

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<p>Iowa State
U of Arizona</p>

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<p>If she wants to go out of state to a big sports school, you need to check out D1 private schools since these do not differentiate between IS and OOS for tuition. However these would be rather costly so check out the Net Price Calculators before you explore them any further.</p>

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<p>Arizona State gives good merit to good students. Barrett HC is very good if you get in.</p>

<p>With my 3.48 and 1340 SAT, my total cost would be $20,000.</p>

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<p>^Very good point about the Honors Colleges. :slight_smile: And Arizona State has great weather as a bonus. :)</p>