Advice sought re math track

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Math is the only subject in which he is not highly gifted.

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<p>My younger 2 profile just like that. They were in public h.s.'s but the youngest
found a way to deal with it. I realize you're in private schooling, so I don't know if this could apply, but here's how he managed: he took a math course in summer school. Around here in upscale land, it's no shame to take a summer course. Many students do it because they're super in a subject and just want to clear the deck on their schedules to take some advanced things (in whatever subject) the following Fall.</p>

<p>When S took a summer Math class (between l0th and llth grades), he was in with all the gifted kids working to bolt ahead. He actually got razzed by the teacher the first day, who thought he was dogging it, but went in the following morning (after practicing with us) to tell the teacher this was his challenge subject. That teacher called his Math teacher from the previous school year to confirm S's self-perception was accurate. After that, the summer school Math teacher gave him some slack in terms of class participation, and didn't call on him (embarrassing). He learned that the kid would take the rest of the afternoon to make sense of the topic, but needed that extra thinking time.</p>

<p>In this way, he found summertime worked for him because he had nothing else to think about. Math wasn't sandwiched in with other courses. With patience, sunshine and lemonade, he did a lot better than when it was jammed in for 4th period or whatever. The only h.w. he had all day was Math. He got to think about it more and better.</p>

<p>Now, amazingly, he's a freshman in college and he's actually getting high 80's and 90's in his Math class, which thrills him to pieces. In h.s. he could manage an 80-85 for Math with tremendous efffort. I could spend the rest of this posting bragging about him in the Humanities, but I'll spare you; I can imagine your kid as well :)</p>

<p>I don't know if that's possible from private school, but maybe the summer is a way to consider.</p>

<p>Oh, for crying out loud. This is nuts. This is an 8th grader. What is he doing outside of school? Does he have any friends? Is he in athletics or, if he is not athletic is he in at least one social extracurricular? Does he ever play outside? Ride his bike? Take risks? </p>

<p>The world is full of kids who took advanced this or that and have the highest scores yet were denied admittance to colleges that are looking for something other than drones. </p>

<p>Please help your child develop social and coping skills and please quit obsessing about math. My D. who is a freshman and who pushed hard all through high school and did well--took college level language courses for fun and took AP Calc as a junior--says she's in college and the bar is higher and it's even MORE work and she's a bit burned out and dropped her technical major for history. We tried hard not to push or be obsessive; for the most part she drove herself and there is a cost now that she's in college paying $50K for the privilege of being educated.</p>

<p>Leave that poor kid alone and let him focus on balancing social and academic achievements.</p>

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f he doesn't have block scheduling,I would be reluctant to have him schedule two math classes simultaneously. First of all, as you have pointed out, that is an area of relative weakness. Math usually requires homework each night and he would be spending a lot of time on homework for each of these classes, before he even has a chance to tackle his other subjects.

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<p>I agree.</p>

<p>I'm currently an HS soph and I took 2 math classes last year as a freshman in our last and only block schedule year (for my class anyways). I'm now in PreCalc and it's going pretty well. After doing all this, I can say that I have learned that I'm not as interested in math as I thought I was. I'm still good at it, but my goals have changed from getting as high as I can in math into high college level courses to completing Calc I, Stats, and some other college credit math classes and be completely done with math forever in high school.</p>

<p>And math classes definitely do give homework every day. Geometry was at least an hour every day on block, PreCalc is an hour every day on a traditional schedule on top of 6 other classes... Ridiculous isn't it? It's even worse in math because they are the type that you can't afford to fall behind in, PreCalc and on.</p>

<p>I'd just leave it up to him. Calc I and Stats can always be taken at the same time anyways.</p>

<p>Math has always been an easy subject for me though, so I don't mind the extra courses. :)</p>

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Math is the only subject in which he is not highly gifted.

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<p>Why would you put an average math student into two math classes? Doubling up the pain will not make him gifted.</p>

<p>btw...math is a fairly comprehensive subject. An average ability in Math is, well, average. Why not accept his average math abilities and nurture what I assume are his superior language skills?</p>

<p>Mombot, He does have a balanced life. He's a good soccer player, involved in debate, has lots of friends, etc. We are exploring this because of his present math teacher's suggestion. All the comments received have been very helpful.</p>

<p>Thanks...</p>

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<p>Then you need to talk to this teacher. Ask for the data that would support your child being in TWO math classes when this is NOT an area in which he excels. Ask for compelling reasons why your child should be doing this. We did this with our kid's math teacher and he could NOT give us compelling reasons (his reason was that it would accelerate her math program..THAT is NOT compelling).</p>

<p>I agree with others...He's in the 8th grade. If this is not his strong subject area, taking two math courses would not perhaps be in his better interest. Does the teacher even KNOW that this area is not his strongest and that he does have other areas that are stronger?</p>

<p>streak- My S in 8th grade was very similar to yours. Teacher suggested moving up so he could do APCalc in Sr. year. He did that and got a 5 on AP Calc last year. He also took Latin and French through Jr year. Dropped French and did Chinese Sr year. However, favorite subjects were his history courses.
He loved Calc and is now taking 2 math courses in college as well as Mandarin. He dropped other languages. Did fine in the admissions.
PS He moved up by taking a math course between fr and So year. Quite frankly, I can't even remember what it was.
D on the other hand will take pre-calc in Sr year and is very happy with that pace.</p>

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The upper track in studying Geom. He currently has a 91 average in Alg. His math teacher wants him to take both Algebra 2 and Geometry next year in order to get into the top track. Math is the only subject in which he is not highly gifted.

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If I were you, I would hire a good math tutor, say two hours a week, to help him build up a strong foundation in math. Math is something self-evident, if properly taught. It does require early exposure and repeated practice. At this elementary level, I don't see it require that much gift, unlike music or art. But it is an important subject which would open up future possibilities.</p>

<p>His current teacher is a middle school/junior high teacher. Unless they have a child in high school or taught previously at the high school, these well-intentioned recommendations are naive and usually have stressful consequences for the child. </p>

<p>BTW - thanks Armando for the confirmation of time required for homework.
It really is demanding.</p>

<p>Our S had the option of going onto a very accelerated math track that essentially had him going double speed in a college-sponsored program for students from all the regional middle schools. The students qualified by taking the SAT in 6th grade. I was concerned that the foundation our son would then have might be shakier than if he were not going at such a rate of speed. He is a very good student, but I would never claim that he is "gifted."</p>

<p>So he opted out. </p>

<p>Later, our son skipped the class that is usually taken to prep for AP calc. I don't recall it's name, sorry, but I think it was just non-AP calc.. This was unusual for his school, but upon investigation, I discovered that the AP calc class assumed very little additional knowledge beyond S's previous course work. We contacted a well-respected retired math teacher who tutors students, and he met with S several times over the summer prior to S's Junior year to fill in the blanks that may have existed between S's prep and the "pre-AP calc" class.</p>

<p>Worked out fine in his case. He got a 5 on the exam.</p>

<p>Just another suggestion for later.</p>

<p>I'm seconding the tutor advice. Best decision we ever made was to hire someone to help our two girls fall in love with math. You might consider it even if he sticks with one math, just to erase any doubt he might have about ability there. Comfort with math will be necessary to pursue and succeed in science.</p>

<p>Is there some way he could take an intensive summer course that would allow him to place into the higher lane math class? I think for an average math student already dealing with the struggle of a transition to high school where the work is harder, two math classes may be a little much. On the other hand, you say he has a passion for science. At least at my HS, the high level science courses required you be enrolled in high level math courses as you get up there, you need critical math skills. Is this true for your HS?</p>

<p>I'd shy away from giving him two math courses as a freshman. Instead, see if there are summer courses (either the summer before ninth grade or the summer after) that may allow him to "lane up" but still have a normal schedule.</p>

<p>Lucky:</p>

<p>He would indeed need the upper level math to get the most out of his AP Science clases. When you suggest summer class do you think the work may be too concentrated in 8 weeks for him to get the full benefit?</p>

<p>Well for me personally, I always found math easier when I could focus on just that (coming from a definitely non-math person!) It was easier when I could just concentrate on that instead of math on top of other, much more interesting subjects. I would then automatically push math to my back burner since it was the least "fun" of all my classes. Also if you're only average in math, two math classes at a time can get really frustrating. I'm not a geometry person, and I took geometry and Alegbra II at the same time, and I found it extremely difficult. It was compounded by the fact that I was still having to work hard at another math subject that didn't come easy to me, but came much easier than geometry.</p>

<p>I think a summer program might allow him to "get it over with" faster too. Just a thought!</p>

<p>streak--as a "highly gifted" but lopsided student who was pushed into accelerated math because I was advanced in other areas, I think the WORST thing you can do is accelerate him in math.</p>

<p>Appreciate your son's strengths and accept that not everybody can excel at every subject. Place him in the math class that is appropriate for his ability and make sure he thoroughly masters each subject before moving on. </p>

<p>Math is one of those subjects where a solid base is key to success--having a shaky grasp of a subject and then moving on to the next level is a recipe for tears.</p>

<p>I would absolutely NOT recommend doubling up on math courses. My son also is just a good math student, though gifted in verbal areas. He took geometry in 9th, Algebra II in 10th, trig/pre-cal in 11th and AP Calc in 12th--got an A- and a 5. Doubling on subjects of less interest means cutting out subjects of more interest and/or EC's and/or sleep or social life. </p>

<p>He did feel that taking 4 years of math and science would look good to colleges, so he forced himself to do it. He opted out of AP Bio because he flat-out didn't want to take it, even though he knew that would look better to colleges than the non-AP science course he selected. He got in everywhere he applied and he had room for lots of fun, joyful classes and activities.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for your feedback. It's been most helpful.</p>

<p>What I find fascinating is that some of you have mentioned that a child will do better in Physics if he has had Calculus. I've complained several times here about the state of Texas' new requirement that all high school students take 4 years of science and 4 years of math. They will all take Physics as Juniors. The majority of kids in the state (those in "regular" math) will be taking that simultaneously with Algebra II. The more advanced kids will be taking Physics with Pre-Calc and a very small percentage (the most advanced students) will be taking Calculus at that time. I don't think that anyone who knows anything about education is advising the Texas legislature!</p>

<p>Around here college bound kids take a non-calculus based physics as sophomores and juniors and only the kids really interested in physics take AP Physics C which you have to take concurrently with Calculus. (Which means most kids don't take it till they are seniors.) There's a fair amount of physics you can do without calculus.</p>

<p>There is even a group of scientists who are agitating for taking physics before biology or chemistry. <a href="http://www.jyi.org/volumes/volume6/issue7/features/pattanayak.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jyi.org/volumes/volume6/issue7/features/pattanayak.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Is he really doubling up if he's on a block schedule? Won't he take Alg. II one semester and then Geometry the second semester? Our oldest son took Alg. II and Geometry at the same time so that he would be allowed to take honors physics in the next year. The only reason we/he wanted to take honors physics was the reputation of that teacher. In our smallish High School there are only so many sections of the upper level classes taught and the teacher can make or break the subject.</p>