@50N40W : You posted as I was typing my last post! My 5 main interests in history are (in rough order of preference) are:
@TooOld4School : Thanks for your response. What do you know about Goucher college and Roanoke College? Also, MN seems like a good fit for me!
Cool!
There are some really interesting things there too. Don’t know if you’re going to love it or not, but certainly we’re all hopeful!
@church77 I live in Virginia so I can give you some insight on VA schools.
George Mason does have Greek life but it definitely doesn’t dominate; I think a very small percentage are involved in frats and sororities. And they do have sports teams, but again, it’s not huge the way it is at some colleges.
Roanoke College is a nice, small LAC. It is a Lutheran school but religious life doesn’t dominate campus life (though I would say a significant number of students are religious). It’s in southwestern Virginia, which is a pretty conservative area, but there are a good number of moderate/liberals, too. They have an excellent history department. Roanoke is a nice small city and you can get an Americana type feeling there. And it’s in a good location to take trips to various other cities and towns (DC is ~4 hours away, Richmond ~2.5, etc.).
DC, Minneapolis, Indiana, New Mexico, San Francisco Bay Area. I could see you there.
Minneapolis, FWIW, consistently ranks in the top 5 cities in the US for percentage of people who commute by bicycle year round. Yes, it gets brisk, but that’s worth style points later, right?
Goucher college is in a Baltimore suburb. It was a woman’s college for many years, so was once a park-like little school all on its own, but the city grew up around it. A much bigger state school, Towson, is very near and there is a lot of back and forth for activities. You might have a problem with cliques. It also has several religious groups that people report are strong (it’s recommended a lot here on CC for Jewish students looking for a strong presence), but if you won’t bother them, they won’t bother you - just depends if you are looking for a ‘no religion’ setting (won’t really find that on any campus). Wash DC is close, but on public transportation could take 2+ hours, depending on the time of day and what assortment of trains, subways, buses you use.
If you had a problem at a school with 2000 students, it sounds like you want a bigger school. Some of the fun of study abroad is getting into the culture whether you like everything or not. If you don’t want to experience cliques and religion and politics and frats and guns, don’t come to the US because most schools have some of that. It’s okay if you don’t like it all, just pick where you think you’ll like it best. Some schools have a big social life run by the Greeks, but at a smaller school, you might think there are too many cliques.
You still didn’t answer how the costs to you differ at these schools. Do you pay tuition to your school and only R&B here? If so, your original plan of the midwest or south is probably going to be the cheapest. Boulder, California schools, the NE, even Goucher are in high cost of living areas. On the other hand, it would be $5000 or so difference, so instead of $10,000, it could be $15000 or even $20,000 if you add in transportation. Also, don’t think passenger trains in the west are like commuter trains in the east. They don’t run very often, and there aren’t a lot of stations. For example, you can get to California from Denver, but if you want to go to southern Cal, you either need to go down to New Mexico to take the southern train or go to Northern California and take a train to southern Cal, which might involve a bus trip for some of it. Not easy.
IMO, hands down, Washington DC. Not because you have (supposed) access to archives, but because it is a phenomenally interesting town, a mix of peoples, incomes, dreams, with plenty for a young person to do, some of it inexpensive. And just enough tension among the people, lots of opinions, lots of public expression. Lots to do via public transpo or by bike. And face it, it’s not far at all from some lovey rural, more average hometown-type areas.
You sounded like what you think you want is some “Real America” type experience- ordinary folks pursuing ordinary dreams. There is no one real America. We talk about the plains, the industrious, the pioneer spirit, the old South, the New South, the wild West, etc. But you have to ask yourself, other than friendships (which can come anywhere,) will certain areas just bore you after a while?
In some places, the distances to the next major area are substantial. I wouldn’t suggest any small college, especially one not in a major area.
Even George Mason is a haul from DC. think about the long run, the whole year, not just some (anthropological) ideals that have morphed as the economy shifts and people move about.
I think you need to be a little careful about George Mason. Although the location is great, it has a relatively large population of commuters. While it has definitely been changing, if you’re interested in having more of a typical US college experience, I don’t know that it would be my choice.
Roanoke is about 2000 students with a decent location. Academically it’s not as strong as some of your other choices and approximately 26% of the men are in frats, which are a fairly strong presence on campus. It’s overwhelmingly white and has a low percentage of international students (approximately 1.4%).
Goucher is even smaller, with only 1500 students. It’s very liberal, no greek life, 66/34 female to male ratio. The location is a good for for getting around and visiting places up and down the east coast, but the students I’ve known who have gone there have (about 4 in total, so not a big pool) have mentioned that they did not feel academically challenged (but obviously, that’s not a big sample).
None of those three schools would be one of my choices in your situation. I still feel that UNC Chapel Hill would provide the best balance of academics, typical US college experience, nice town, and fairly liberal without being overwhelmingly so. I agree that Colorado-Boulder is a great campus and the area, especially if you like outdoor activities, is wonderful. In terms of small schools, Richmond is absolutely beautiful with a very nice location near but not in Richmond. It’s one of the largest of the LACS (about 3000 students) and has good solid academics. My only concern is the hold that Greek life has on social life. According to the school’s website, approximately 38% of students at Richmond are involved in Greek life, which is fairly high. However, maybe others could speak to how important it is.
Finally, one word about Amtrak. Unfortunately, our train system in the US is pretty abysmal. Other than the Northeast corridor, DC-NYC-Boston, there are few areas that are served by more than 1 or 2 Amtrak trains per day. Getting around by Amtrak, which possible, is difficult (it’s just not at all like Europe), and trains frequently run very late. So, I would be hesitant to assume that if you were in Lawrence, KS or Norman, Oklahoma, that Amtrak is all that realistic.
Amtrak has gotten better, I just had an experience tracking a cross country train. But when speaking with reps, they pointed out how few lines really criss-cross the country. And I wonder if OP really comprehends the distances in the US. When I lived in Munich, we could be in Paris in about 7 hours, by train. Lawrence KS to Chicago is nearly ten hours. Boulder to SF is a day and a half. (Of course, easier to fly.)
Goucher is near Baltimore, has no particular outstanding qualities, but in a suburb. You have better choices.
What about Rhode Island? Amtrak serves Kingston, and the existence of Cromwell Connecticut (not far away) implies some link between English Civil War veterans and another, later rejection of the monarchy. As I recall, it wasn’t hideously expensive, either.
Rhode Island is easily traversed in a day by bicycle, if that’s something the OP does.
To put the distances and transportation system in the US in perspective, the entire UK is about the same size as the US state of Michigan. Michigan is ranked 11/50 in area with 3% of total contiguous US area. There is only one major passenger rail line (about 250 mi), traveling from Detroit to Chicago, with only 3 trains daily. Detroit airport services 150 destinations non-stop. (Heathrow has 180). Michigan has 1960 mi of interstates (motorways). The UK has 2100 mi for 6.5x population.
The surface area of the Great Lakes is about the size of the UK. It takes longer to drive from Maine to Los Angeles then from Lisbon to Moscow.
You should forget about any kind of frequent, timely train service except for commuter rail. I’d consider the NE corridor more commuter, but pricing is not cheap. Traveling cross country is best experienced by plane or car. There are also some inter-city buses (e.g. megabus) which are cheap and reliable. Cross-country trains area fine if you don’t mind arriving very late (track is shared with freight, and freight has priority)
Petrol (or diesel) averages about 43p/L , so it is quite reasonable to travel long distances by car. It’s much easier to drive too - wider lanes, fewer roundabouts, almost no hedgerows, faster speeds.
I am going to chime in one more time… As I mentioned in my earlier comment, I have lived in the Mid-Atlantic, the South, the Northeast (I didn’t mention this, but I lived in NYC for a short period of time) and for the past 11 years, in Southern California. Based on what you said you want to study, California does not seem like a good fit. If you don’t want to be in DC, definitely consider VA. I grew up in Richmond, so I am biased, but I think you will find most of what you are looking for at U of R. Anywhere you go, you are going to find cliques. Americans tend to be pretty friendly, so if you are willing to put yourself out there and go outside of your comfort zone, you should be able to find friends.
I love this quote by Mark Twain: “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one’s lifetime.” It is possible, that by going outside of your comfort zone (at least a bit), you will learn that some of the deal-breakers on your list weren’t warranted. Just a thought. Best of luck!
If I were choosing, I’d look at-
Consider that during the week you will probably be pretty busy with classes, something that is a bigger focus in US schools than some other places. But then you will have weekends for travel (and academics). In the northeast it is realistic to think that you can take in other cities in just a few days by car or rail. Rail schedules and accessibility differ across the US and even across the Northeast. But in the Northeast there are a lot of cities very close together. From NY ( or any other I list here) , NJ, you could visit Boston, Newport RI, Phili, DC, Baltimore, Richmond (5 hour drive), etc. Quickly darting from city to city is very realistic. Once you place yourself in the middle of the country you lose that ability. A five hour driving radius might not get you to any other city. The NE cities are each markedly different from each other-there is no common or prevailing vibe, so you can cover a lot of ground on weekends if you plant yourself in a location that is in the NE with good transportation. In contrast, some of the wonderful flagship universities are very difficult to get to and from. If you have that as your base, it may be unrealistic to think you’d see many other cities or different locations. Not only would you have to fly everywhere but you may also have a very long drive just to get to a major airport and/or you’d fly from a closer smaller airport that has limited service and is more expensive.
If you live in a place like Boston, NYC, Phili, Baltimore, you can use public transportation and get nearly anywhere. Flights are cheaper because it is so well traveled.
I’d also look at the academic calendar to make sure that the type of schedule will work well for you. Some schools use a quarter system, others are on semester and some have a 4-1-4 schedule-it is very varied. Consider which type you 'd be most comfortable with. Some schedules will give you more travel time than others even tho total days are fairly consistent across universities. Also, the actual timing of classes differ across universities. A usual schedule is to have classes MWF and TTH But some schools have classes MTWTH and never Friday.
I think the religion issues are a red herring. Unless the school you are at is highly religious, I can’t imagine it will be an issue even in the south.
Good luck
With respect to the above, a northeastern U.S. location would also allow for travel to the Canadian cities of Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa.
Although it can be pretty far to Canada, depending. I don’t imagine OP will have a car. Now, lots of our kids have had friends with cars, to go skiing or hop a ride, etc. Some good friends may invite you home during a break. But you can’t visit everywhere in a year- and you won’t want to. I think several of us agree you will want to, as we say, “get out of Dodge,” once in a while.
Thanks for all your input! I am really undecided between the Midwest and Northeast now… I do not think I will get bored in a college town because I rarely ventured off campus at my home university (which was a campus based university opposed to one in a city centre) and did not get bored. Travelling is not that important to me. I can do that at the end of the year and fly from wherever I am to a better travelling location. However, it seems that if I want a non-frat, non-conservative campus the Midwest is not the best idea.! How can something so exciting be so stressful? I need to do some independent research and if I have any more qs I’ll post. Thanks again for your advice. It is greatly appreciated
I wouldn’t characterize most of the big Midwestern flagships as conservative at all (OU may be an exception). They range from moderate to liberal.
My impression is that you are painting in too broad strokes. Even for the schools that are known to have the most active frat/sorority life, usually less than one third of the students join. Even in schools that are known for big time sports, many students spend their leisure time on non-sports related activities. The imagine portrayed in films like Animal House are really exaggerated stereotypes. There are trends but nothing more than that. More drinking seems to take place in smaller colleges in remote areas since there is often little else for students to do together. Schools with frats and sports tend to have more school spirit. But these are still broad generalizations. The big great Midwestern flagship schools tend to be in great little cities and they usually have beautiful campuses with some quaint college-y areas with nice cafes and cute stores. Going to schools in Boston will give you access to an incredible evening scene and offer loads of things to do without much planning efforts. But all these are broad generations too. The reality is that almost anything you choose will offer great opportunities but not every opportunity. If something is missing you can usually make it happen or fill in with something else.