<p>"Lol, jeez, I am half African, technically.
AA based solely on socioeconomic status is more fair than advantage based on race."</p>
<p>AA def, can be based on race and socio economic status.
for the benefit of diversity.</p>
<p>Spanks, was your dad born and breed in Morrocco? Have you ever been there?</p>
<p>A person of true, recent Morrocan origin living in the US as a muslim in the face of 9/11, war on terrorism should count as diverse.</p>
<p>He was born there and lived there until his late teens when he moved to Israel. He also has 700 years of Moroccan ancestry. I haven't been there, though. I was just really wondering about the legality of it. Neither my brother nor I would actually consider doing such a thing. We're not Muslim, though. He's a sephardic Jew.</p>
<p>Because it doesn't differentiate applicants based on race.</p>
<p>-Yes but now it would be discriminating on the rich. Thats just as unfair as race.</p>
<p>Doesn't most of the AA argument pertain to leveling the playing field for poor minorities in urban communities anyways?</p>
<p>No. First, there are poor minorities outside urban communities Mississippi, Alabama, etc Also, what people need to realize is that AA does not seek just to level the playing field for economic status, it seeks to help minorities integrate into all aspects of society, mixing with people with whom they might not have normally. Moreover, since the program is not based solely on race anyway, the argument is moot.</p>
<p>It's not just as unfair as race. Rich people have the resources to get tutors and go to good schools. Public schools in wealthy communities are much better than schools in poor areas. </p>
<p>"Moreover, since the program is not based solely on race anyway, the argument is moot."</p>
<p>What is affermative action based on besides race, in college admissions? </p>
<p>Perhaps in the employment world you could say AA is based on gender, sexual orientation etc.</p>
<p>It's a matter of choice i guess.</p>
<p>Spanks, your perfectly half African then. At least you must have some part of that morrocan in you that anyone could probably have guessed even without asking your race.
But then not all Moroccans are black. lol
There are some places (even in Africa. SA for example) where people are discriminated against by the color of their skin.</p>
<p>Yeah my post was meant to be sarcasm (fake jab about how it was beneficial to some people). Sorry if you all took it the wrong way.</p>
<p>I'm actually really pale in the winter, courtesy of my mom's eastern European background. People guess Italian, but they're generally surprised to hear I'm Moroccan. Anyways, it's interesting that I could have applied as African without being black, lol.</p>
<p>“What is affermative action based on besides race, in college admissions?”</p>
<p>-Region, school attended, race, religion, economic background, sex – this program is based on many things, but people just do not want to admit it, as it’s easier to pick on minorities than to try to understand the depth and complexity of a social engineering program such as this one. </p>
<p>“It's not just as unfair as race. Rich people have the resources to get tutors and go to good schools. Public schools in wealthy communities are much better than schools in poor areas.”</p>
<p>-Again, you don’t seem to understand the sociological logic behind the program. While rich people do have more resources than poor people (this is common sense and goes without saying), we must understand that this program takes into account the principle of majority rule. In a society, there are often majorities and minorities; this program was set up by the majority to aid the minority. The program would be ridiculous and ineffective if it was set up to help other members of the social majority – in this country White people.</p>
<p>I'm not talking about "skin color" because i know Morrocans are pale on their own (why i said not all of them are black)
I'm talking about your culture. Do you do things that distinguish you from whites/ italians e.t.c.</p>
<p>I'm full bloodied African. And it shows all through me from my cultures, my name, I speak my language, e.t.c </p>
<p>If you've lived all your life as a white male, you might have black in your blood, but that doesn't really make you black.</p>
<p>There are some black people I know who are actually "white" in skin color but you could tell that they really aren't white just by knowing them for a few amount of time. </p>
<p>That's what colleges are looking for as "diversity" i guess.
so yeah, race does matter. but you have to identify with it.</p>
<p>I wouldn't want to go to a school were all the kids wore preppy clothes, blond hair and act the same way (even though some of them might have spanish, north african blood in them).</p>
<p>First of all, courtjstr, I haven't yelled any explitivies at you so stop playing the role of victim.</p>
<p>Second, Loyota, I never meant to say I don't care about discrimination if that's what came across. I don't condone discrimination at all but actually find it very digusting. What I intended to say was the discrimination was indeed probably very painful and tragic, but it affects one's work ability just the same as other tragedies, such as the death of a family member, a devastating physical illness, an heavy argument with your best friend, getting into a fight at school. Were all these things emotionally devastating and may have affected your work ethic? Probably. Yet somehow your tragedy is more important than the rest? Enough with the egotism, please.</p>
<p>Yet anyhow, I'm sick of everyone saying that all white kids are rich and can afford tutors and test prep. I'm poor as hell, I've only took the SAT once (shocking, isn't it?) and have had no SAT prep. Heck, it would probably bore me to death. But oh no I'm white so I'm probably a millionaire and have had a team of 12 tutors at home. Sorry if you wish that were true to support your argument, but the truth is, I've probably recieved the same amount of learning resources as you, likely less, as I attend one of your so called 'city schools' in the middle of Chicago. Yet some rich black kid from Bellair Academy who slacked off in class, smoked dope everyday, whose parents brought him a library of prep books, who's school offers him every single AP test known, and yet scored 300 pts lower on his SAT than me because I busted my balls every single night can sneak right by me into a top university because he's "Mr. Oppressed." He'll probably even bs in his essay about how his teachers put him in the back of the room and how he struggled, etc and have a good laugh about it later.</p>
<p>Here's some points for you pro-AAers to consider:
1. All these academic advantages you speak of have to do with wealth, not race.
2. Doest test prep even help you on the SAT? If you're dumb, your dumb. Btw I'm pretty sure there's free test prep online.
3. Race isn't diversity. It's one characteristic amongst many. That's like saying the continent of Asia isn't diverse because everyone's asian. It's like saying England or France aren't diverse because most people are white. It's plain idiocy, and thats not a valid reason for AA.
4. I still haven't heard one remotely, non-laughable reason for AA. NOT ONE!</p>
<p>peter_parker, thank you for noting that difference between England and France. It really bothers me how some people think that theres such a thing as a uniform "White culture" when there's no such uniform culture but rather many different ones.</p>
<p>It's stupid to base AA on race too. Did not Martin Luther King say judge me by the content of my character, not by the color of my skin?</p>
<p>Latoya...we need you in education...obviously. Best of luck!<br>
This thread illustrates perfectly why we still need AA.</p>
<p>Tiberius...MLK did envision a society in which we would judge by character and not skin color. Unfortunately, we're just not there yet. It's very clear that we're not doing a good job educating our kids about affirmative action...</p>
<p>Well I know that it's not completely based off race if you're implying that I'm uninformed in regards to AA but I guess I did come off sounding like I thought that.</p>
<p>peter parker</p>
<ol>
<li> SAT scores are correlated to income, income is correlated with race, therefore SAT scores are correlated with race. simple logic that you seemed to have missed</li>
<li> the SAT has been shown numerous times to be very coachable. Being "smart" or "dumb" does not matter for the SAT, what matters is how many of the collegeboard's tricks you know.</li>
<li> Race may not be the only indicator of diversity, but it sure is the best one we have. you cant tell me that the white culture is not different from the black culture and the hispanic culture in America, because it is.</li>
<li> I guess you havent been reading this thread or any other thread pertaining to AA in which intelligent people have offered up several reasons for it.</li>
</ol>
<p>also, your SATs must be pretty high for this so called rich black kid to have a 300 point lower score than you and still get into good schools. And by your demonstrated intelligence plus your stated lack of test prep, i cant imagine your scores being that high.</p>
<p>“Race isn't diversity. It's one characteristic amongst many. That's like saying the continent of Asia isn't diverse because everyone's asian.”</p>
<p>-Race isn’t diversity? That’s ridiculous. Nobody is saying that all White or Black people are the same. But it’s silly to think that race and cultures of different groups do not yield different attitudes of society, and thus add to the diversity of the country. Again, AA is not based on race alone, so you as a poor white person do, in some cases, benefit from the program. </p>
<p>If the sole point of AA were to make people the country equal in economic standing, then yes; I would agree that economic factors should be the only factors used in deciding if to apply AA to an applicant. However, not only is this not the purpose of AA, it is a sad perversion of the program, one that has come from people who do not understand it, or sociological theory, and don’t seem to want to put in the effort to do so.</p>
<p>I have said this before and will say it yet again. We live in a society where the minorities are treated differently. I am not saying that there is blatant racism but it still does exist in subtle forms. Look at the difference in incomes of minorities and whites with the same jobs. And here is the percent of each minority population living in poverty.</p>
<p>Native Americans - 24.5%
African Americans - 22.7%
Hispanics - 21.4%
Asians and Pacific Islanders - 10.2%
Whites - 7.8%</p>
<p>This does not even take into account the people who are barely above the poverty line. When close to a quarter of a population of people are living below the poverty line there is a serious problem. Some of you are saying that we should live in a colorblind society where everyone is given an equal chance at college admissions, but this cannot happen until everyone is put back on an equal footing. So instead of looking at individual cases of this one "rich black kid" look at the picture as a whole. These races need some help to dig themselves out. When about 1 in 4 of the people are living below poverty you cannot expect the whole race to rebound quickly.</p>
<p>"When about 1 in 4 of the people are living below poverty you cannot expect the whole race to rebound quickly."</p>
<p>-The End.</p>
<p>Then let the poor people get the advantage. You have to consider the 75% of Native Americans above the poverty line, the 77% of African Americans above the poverty line and the 79% of Hispanics above the poverty line as opposed to the 10% of Asians and the 8% of whites who are below the poverty line.</p>
<p>Should an white kid who is below the poverty line get an advantage over a black kid who is above it? I think so.</p>
<p>AA shouldn't be about race. It should be about what is fair and what can be more fair than having AA based on socioeconomic issues?</p>
<p>First off, I am against AA the way it is practiced in the US.</p>
<p>To the OP, if you're not sure, then either check what you have traditionally checked, or, if there is such an option, say "I prefer not to answer."</p>
<p>What's up with this "you have to identify with it" stuff? For example, you realize that the children of immigrants from the Carribean do not consider themselves African-American by any means? But, if the term African-American is used in place of Black, are they working the system by checking African-American?</p>
<p>So affirmative action is designed to rectify previous ills with respect to race. The child of an immigrant from the African continent never experienced a legacy of hate and missed opportunity. Is he working the system by checking African-American if Black is not available?</p>