Question of Ethics

Parents Forum
1

<p>I have a friend who put that she was Hispanic on her college applications (from Spain, where it asked on the common app though other applications didn't ask). However, my friend is, well, white. Her grandfather was from Spain, but she has never identified herself with the Spanish culture, language, or the Hispanic race. Previously, she has listed herself as white when asked (otherwise she would have qualified for the National Merit program for Hispanics). </p>

<p>However, when it came time for college applications, she noted, "I think it will really give me a boost to say I'm Hispanic, and technically, it might count." I told her this was, well, shady, and made her call the Harvard admissions office. However, they just told her, "Put what you consider yourself," leaving the opportunity for her to put whatever she felt like. </p>

<p>This student applied to HYP, UPenn, Columbia, and a slew of other prestigious schools. I am staying out of this situation, but my best friend says that if this girl gets into a top school (where it is highly unlikely she would have been admitted without the "diversity" factor) that she is going to inform the admissions office that she lied on her application with the intent of using this information to boost her chances of acceptance. </p>

<p>My question is, is what this girl did unethical, or is it merely taking advantage the system? Is it ethical for my friend to report her? Is it unethical for me to do nothing, or is it none of my business as I believe?</p>

2

<p>I don't think what the girl did is ethical, but I also don't think it's right for your friend to sabotage this girl by calling the admissions office.</p>

3

<p>I read editorials in the Crimson a few days ago which addressed this very issue but with regard to Native Americans. One editorial argued that it was right for the school to check the credentials of those who claim Native American identity, the other argued that it should be left up to the individual to decide. Identity can be a tricky thing. Many immigrants have spent a lifetime trying to assimilate and then, when they get older, rediscover their cultural roots.</p>

4

<p>Hispanic is not a race, it is an ethnicity. Hispanics can be any race.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, I doubt if how your friend identifies herself will make any difference in how Harvard and other similar schools consider her application. So many people assume that applicants virtually automatically get in if they happen to be a URM. That's not true. I have seen plenty of high scoring URMs, including those with national achievements, and those who have ECs and other things indicating that they identify with their URM background who still have gotten rejected from places like HPYS.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, when it comes to Hispanics, the most in demand are people who are Mexican and Puerto Rican because of the relatively small proportion of those who go to college. Even with strong students of such backgrounds, however acceptances is not automatic.</p>

<p>Places like Harvard get many applications from very strong students of all racial backgrounds.</p>

5

<p>Remember when Zach Morris found out he was half indian, and his indian name was "Running Zach" on 'Saved by the Bell'? This thread reminds me of that.</p>

6

<p>I am adopted (from a country in South America) but I have always felt I was Hispanic. I lived in an all-white town and therefore really didn't know any other Hispanics. The few that were, weren't really in my classes and were flunkies (not to be rude but at my school the non-white population never reached over 1-2%). So when it came time for college applications I had no troubles citing the fact that I was Hispanic. When I got in the other people in my classes were like, "He's only getting stuff b/c he's Hispanic." which wasn't really true b/c I was 4th in my class and had one of the highest ACT scores out of my class. I got to college and joined the minority (Hispanic) engineering group. This was the first time I have never really felt Hispanic before. I became lost in my own identity.</p>

<p>So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I still feel I'm Hispanic, 100%. It hurt to have people tell me what I was or wasn't. Who cares what I act like? What is "acting Latino" anyways? I am truly Hispanic and just because I didn't grow up with Hispanic parents or in a Latino culture doesn't mean that I'm not?</p>

<p>Don't judge your friend. If she gets into colleges that have accepted her b/c of race she will not only feel guilty afterward but will probably struggle in a program much to difficult for her ability. That is the pain that college inflict upon accepting those that don't have the ability to do well and only hurt rather than help. Let her do what she feels. She will only hurt herself in the end.</p>

7

<p>i recall a similar situation where a friend's daughter put "hispanic" because her father was born in argentina. His parents were european jews (caucasian) and had fled to South America during the holocaust. He was born there and then moved to the US, where his daughter was born. She was accepted into several schools but then started receiving calls from their Latino students associations etc. and was even offered scholarships intended for hispanic students. The girls mother at that point felt compelled to make contact with the schools to explain that her daughter was, in her words, "not of color". It clearly became an uncomfortable situation.</p>

<p>I felt that applying as hispanic was not ethical. In fact, my kids could claim a similar history as my mother also fled to South America. We would just never do that!</p>

8

<br>


<br>

<p>I think I would have put that my parents were refugees from the Holocaust. I think that would be worth more diversity points than being simply Hispanic.</p>

9

<p>I guess in this largely Jewish community, being Hispanic seemed more diverse.</p>

10

<p>It is ethical for you to stay out of it. If you feel this girl is too shady for you to want to remain friends with her, so be it, but whistle-blowing seems inappropriate in this situation. (I wouldn't encourage your best friend to be a whistle-blower either, but again, I would try not to get sucked in further.)</p>

11

<p>"The girls mother at that point felt compelled to make contact with the schools to explain that her daughter was, in her words, "not of color". It clearly became an uncomfortable situation."</p>

<p>It was the mother who was in the wrong by assuming that "Hispanic" meant that a person had to have dark skin. There are plenty of white Hispanics.</p>

<p>I know people who are offspring of Holocaust survivors who fled to S. America who still regard themselves as Hispanic. They identify with being Jewish and with being Hispanic. If your friend's father was raised in South America, he could justifiably regard himself as Hispanic, and could have raised his kid in a Hispanic culture even though he moved to the US as an adult.</p>

12

<p>jellybean,
My question for you is that if you believe that the girl whom you know is unethical, why do you choose to keep being friends with her?</p>

<p>It's not your place to turn her into admission. It is, however, your place to choose friends with values that you respect.</p>

13

<p>Would you feel better if someone got in because her family REALLY had money, or because she was only sortta Hispanic?</p>

14

<p>Northstarmom, sorry - I wasn't implying that minorities were auto admits. I wasn't being condescending and I hope you don't think that. My friend has very good stats so she's definitely a strong applicant. I just meant that it would be difficult for her to get in HYP regular decision (when less than 10% of people are accepted) without bringing a tip factor like a special skill, a diverse background, or an athletic ability. And when schools have so many talented students to choose from, such issues become important, and rightfully so. </p>

<p>I don't KNOW that she's going to get in, and frankly, I wasn't assuming that she was. I posted this to mainly ask if it was unfair of her to put this and unfair of my friend to do something about it, not to say, "Minorities only get into colleges because they are minorities." It's unfair to automatically assume I have that skewed view. </p>

<p>I know being Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. That was miscommunication. I was just thinking in terms of the "race" box on the application. </p>

<p>As for why I'm friends with this girl, she is in EVERY class I have. I am not her biggest fan, but I think to alienate her because I don't respect one choice she made would simply be cruel. I think we've all made bad choices in life and who am I to become the ethics police? Should I also stop speaking to people who are underaged drinkers? People who I know have cheated on tests? People who have ever done something I disapprove of? I think it's definitely possible to associate with people without respecting them or their decisions just out of the need to be polite.</p>

<p>Illini, I definitely think you are a minority and think your situation is totally different from the one I brought up.</p>

<p>No, I'm not judging my friend. Again, I don't agree with what she did, but it was her choice, and I'm not going to do anything about it. This was more of a "what if" scenario. </p>

<p>For the record, I was NEVER considering reporting this girl and only brought up the issue because my friend implied it was unethical NOT to turn her in, which I disagreed with. She made me feel like I was aiding unethical behavior, which I believed was unfair. Again, it was none of my business.</p>

<p>I'm sorry I made this post. I was just wondering if what my friend did was actually unethical and if it was unethical of my other friend to report her. Somehow I became the bad guy.</p>

15

<p>The Latinas that I know consider themselves "white", they are still Latina and English is their 2nd language- but still .</p>

16

<p>I wonder where the hispanic student, whose spot she steals, will go?</p>

17

<p>Jellybean,
Thanks for taking the time to clarify your original post.
I also think that my follow-ups were too harsh on you. I misread and thought that you, not your friend, were planning on turning her in, so I apologize for coming down on you.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, I doubt if her mentioning being Hispanic will make any difference in whether she gets admitted unless she's applying to one of the colleges that truly is desperate for any kind of diversity. Such colleges aren't places like HPYS, but tend to be places that are not very well known and are in the middle of nowhere in states with low minority and immigrant populations.</p>

18

<p>It is very common at our high school for students to check the Hispanic box, even if the connection is remote. I have found that Rice, in particular, is not looking for economic diversity in the low SES to middle class Hispanic candidates from our community. This may not be indicative of how things work elsewhere, but it is commonplace here. The last two Rice acceptees from our high school both received "diversity scholarships" even though they are very similar to the OPs friend. I would say that both could have been accepted on their stats alone, but they would not have received that particular scholarship.</p>

19

<p>It seems a little shakey - but it's probably "legal" and not worth reporting. I think it was Harvard that came under fire recently for having too many Africans (from outside the US) included in its reported data for minorities. Sounds like the institutions are playing games too.</p>

20

<p>"A U.S. citizen or resident of Latin-American or Spanish descent"</p>

<p>That's the definition of "hispanic" at dictionary.com </p>

<p>I see absolutely nothing wrong with your white friend checking the Hispanic box, since she is, indeed, Hispanic. In fact, she would be crazy NOT to check the box.</p>

<p>To the extent that her particular colleges are seeking additional Hispanic percentages, they will give her additional consideration. They might even pay for her plane ticket to attend a "Diversity Weekend" recruiting trip.</p>

<p>If the colleges do not want this kind of gamesmanship, then they shouldn't have defined the game the way they have. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads and forcing them to ask you what race or ethnicity you are. In fact, the colleges have had to convince the Supreme Court to grant an exception to the rights guaranteed in the US Constitution to even be able to ask the question and consider race and ethnicity in the admissions process.</p>

<p>It wasn't too many decades ago that a famous American leader spoke of a dream in which "...children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."</p>

<p>The colleges could do it that way, if they wanted to.</p>