<p>What bothers me is when, ceteris paribus, a URM is taken over a majority student for the mere fact that they are a URM.</p>
<p>I know an African-American girl who has all the privileges of upper-class life. Her parents probably earn three times the money mine do. She goes to a $20,000/year private school and can take any SAT prep course she chooses. </p>
<p>For obvious reasons, she'll by all objective standards be a stronger candidate than a poor student at an inner-city public school, and chances are she'll be admitted in his place -- which completely counteracts the purpose of affirmative action. I agree with the principles of AA, but the way it is implemented is far from perfect.</p>
<p>not this again............</p>
<p>Then why choose a choose a college that does that? Apply somewhere else. I see the real problem is that the prestige whore (I'm a hypercrite) just has to apply to a competitive school and any little thing that comes in their way of getting in they revolt, attack of the clones. There are hundreds of schools to get into but it just has to be "in the top ten" "the number one place for this major". Appreciate that you can have an education but noone cares for that obviously.</p>
<p>"...and chances are she'll be admitted in his place"</p>
<p>You know what that sounds like? That the poor inner city boy has an admission slot reserved for him with his name stamped on it, and all these greedy hungry URMs just waltz in and rob the poor boy of his spot. That's ridiculous. The boy WILL BE given lots of leniency due to the fact that he is poor and from an inner-city, just as a lot more will be expected from the black girl because she goes to a wealthy elite school. If either of them make the most of what they have, then they'll both get in.</p>
<p>I do not know why I bothered reading this thread. It is the same thing every time. I need a new job where I don't have access to the Internet!</p>
<p>What I meant was that on a strictly academic basis, the person with the higher stats -- the wealthy student -- would be a more competitive candidate. She should be evaluated based on the privileges she had access to, rather than favored for her race.</p>
<p>knightmare, than by your standards the African person whose ancestors were not here before the 60s should not get AA and most Mexicans who came to this country would not either. Simply put, your logic is stupid. And yes, jews were discriminated just like all these other URM have been in America and around the world.</p>
<p>knightmare: bcp05 makes a valid point here, one which is unrefutable. The logic behind AA is fundamentally flawed for several reasons. Let's face it, in the real world, employers aren't going to sympathize with a "poor inner city youth URM" and give him a job paying $100K. By no means am I saying that it's fair for the "poor inner city youth URM" to end up on the streets and not attend college. The URM student can go to a college where he's a "match." However, it's plain wrong to allow that student to take the position of a more highly qualified student at a top 50 university. The fact is that academically, the URM isn't suitable for the college; this doesn't mean though that the URM doesn't have potential.</p>
<p>Either way you look at it, the current system is flawed.</p>
<p>Claridge -- That's a good point.</p>
<p>Anyone ever see Avenue Q? Download the song "Everyone's a little bit racist"</p>
<p>-You're a little bit racist.
-Well you're a little bit too!
-I guess we're both a little bit racist
-Admitting it is not an easy thing to do
-I guess everyone's a little bit racist at times
-Doesn't mean we go around committing hate criiiiiiimes</p>
<p>The problem is inner city's K-12 education, and the different educational quality you get depend on places you live.</p>
<p>I doubt if this problem can be ever erased.</p>
<p>Blackdream: That is my point exactly. You cannot fix the problem by not going after the root cause. Obviously one of the root causes is that these URM students don't receive quality elementary and secondary educations.</p>
<p>However, allowing them to take the seat of a more qualified candidate will never solve those problems. It only creates NEW problems.</p>
<p>The problem is No Child Left Behind. Hey Black, tell us how the educational system works in China. See, i usually don't agree with Black, but i favor the Asian system of education over the US one. Educating the masses just does not work. We need more selective education, and that will allow for more resources per school and, thus, a better education for those who care and have potential. The rest can go to technical schools.</p>
<p>for the 15,000th time, Affirmative Action is bad and it hurts URMs. not only that -- two wrongs don't make a right (giving preferential treatment to one group over another is wrong).</p>
<p>in fact, one of my african american friends has a joke that he says: "if i were white there's no doubt in my mind that i'd support affirmative action -- it's detrimental to us!"</p>
<p>Chinese's educational system plagued it's people.</p>
<p>Good thing it's being less and less selectative now.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, we are seeing China's educational problem surface here again.</p>
<p>Through supercraming, chinese students can do REALLY well on standardized exam such as SAT, TOFEL, and such.</p>
<p>However, they really don't know anything excepts vocabs they would never use again in their life time.</p>
<p>The eptimoe of selective education, Ke Jue exam (in ancient China), is hold by the emperor and only 3 persons pass (out of millions)</p>
<p>However, this is a large reason why China failed to create genis like Newton and was fall behind both economically and militarily.</p>
<p>Should more people recieve higher education (vs. a elitest system), the nation as a whole will become stronger.</p>
<p>Give you all an example, USA has F119 (I think) engine that pushes out 30000 pounds of thrist for its F22, but China can't even copy Russian's RD93 (40KN or so thirst, did I remember wrong?)</p>
<p>Why? Because all those elitsts who got in good Chinese colleges with highscore either choose to immigrate to the States for the money (or rich husbands), or they can do nothing besides solving differential equations. (i wouldn't be surprised if the lead engineer had never worked on an actually engine)</p>
<p>Damn it Black...the one chance you and I had to agree with each other :)</p>
<p>Stoned pandas, are you happened to be an African American?</p>
<p>Bigjake, It's simple. Your opinion supports an indivdual's advancement and achievement, and mine opinion supports a nation's upbring through collective work.</p>
<p>strength in numbers. More people educated = a stronger nation. You can't say no to that.</p>
<p>No one suggested communism. The point was to emphasize a culture where more people have the opportunity to achieve a higher level of education. Trigger arguments aren't relevant to this discussion.</p>