<p>"The definitions show that affirmative actions is rascism. I personally believe that any and all rascism is unjust, and thus affirmative action is morally reprehsible. On the other hand, this does not make affirmative action wrong, it just makes it rascisct. If you believe that using rascism to try to readjust for past racism is okay, then you are entitled to that belief. I just think that any and all rascism is wrong, no complexities, no exceptions." </p>
<p>Thats great and optimistic but only is theoretical in real life you have to consider complexities</p>
<p>Hrum, well, I guess if you look beyond the simple fact that its rascism, the argument for AA that holds water the best is social utility: URM's may use their education to benefit underserved communities and furthermore having more diversity in colleges is good for all the students. On the other hand, it is grossly unfair to the applicants who lose out due to their skin color and it engenders rascism: minority students make up a small proportion of the students at any given college but a large proportion of those near the bottom of the class and almost nothing at all near the top, which leads the other students to develop unconscious biases that URMs are sub-par because the ones at any given college are compared to their colleagues, and gives incentives for people to practice rascism later in life (for example, a white doctor must have cleared a much higher hurdle to become a doctor than a black doctor and therefore is statistically likely to be more competent).</p>
<p>If you can ignore the plain rascism of it, AA is a matter of whether the costs outweight the benefits or not (I don't think the argument that its compensation really holds because the majority of the people benefitting from it most are immigrants from Africa after the 1965 immigration act or Latino).</p>
<p>I think AA is racism. Not only against whites and asians but against the minorities themselves. This is why some URM's (esp. the ones that can get into top schools without AA) oppose affirmative action. </p>
<p>The reparations argument makes zero sense. Yes blacks were denied voting rights and forced to go to segregated schools. But so were Asians! In fact, they were denied citizenship altogether until well into the 1900's. Based on that argument, every minority that has been discriminated against (which is basically everyone in America except white Protestant males) should be entitled to reparations.</p>
<p>That's the only place online I can find such data, mostly because College Board stopped providing scores disaggregated by race and income about 10 years ago. If you want a more reliable source, check out the book "No Excuses: Closing the Racial Gap in Learning" by Abigail and Stephan Thernstrom. Perhaps blah_blah has another URL.</p>
<p>King: In my enthusiasm to prove a point, I probably came off as angrier or more stand-offish than I intended, and I apologize. However, my point was never that whites/Asians are smarter because of SAT scores, nor was it that they deserved college acceptance based on these scores. Please read posts before jumping to insulting conclusions.</p>
<p>The point is that most AA-proponents argue that blacks are more economically disadvantaged than other races, and this is what causes their lower average test scores. As the argument goes, it is therefore unfair to evaluate them on an equal footing with whites/Asians because they don't have access to the same opportunities for education (rich school districts, test prep, etc.). </p>
<p>However, since it's been shown that poor whites outperform rich blacks, and whites whose parents have high school diplomas outperform blacks whose parents have graduate degrees, it's a fair conclusion that this argument from SES differences is no longer valid. There must be something other than SES that causes blacks to perform worse, and it is most likely culture, as Bill Cosby believes.</p>
<p>Now my argument is that because culture is essentially personal attitudes, it is in the control of the individual (as opposed to a low income, which most kids cannot change), and thus, is an equal playing field for evaluation.</p>
<p>"I think AA is racism. Not only against whites and asians but against the minorities themselves. This is why some URM's (esp. the ones that can get into top schools without AA) oppose affirmative action.</p>
<p>The reparations argument makes zero sense. Yes blacks were denied voting rights and forced to go to segregated schools. But so were Asians! In fact, they were denied citizenship altogether until well into the 1900's. Based on that argument, every minority that has been discriminated against (which is basically everyone in America except white Protestant males) should be entitled to reparations."</p>
<p>Did you even read the thread, somebody suddenly mention the word "reparations" and you say were making the reparations argument when if you would of bothered to read the thread you would have seen that we said reparations didnt make any sense.</p>
<p>OK, this thread has "gone too far"... let's give it a rest for a while. </p>
<p>[MODERATOR'S NOTE: This old thread illustrates what used to go awry in threads about affirmative action. For civil, factual discussion of this contentious issue, see </p>