<p>"To my way of thinking, a highly questionable assumption - one could just as easily argue that those with high SAT scores get an unfair "formidable advantage" based on their parents' income - one small piece of affirmative action for white folks -"</p>
<p>That is one of the dumbest logic to use in support of AA (you admit that it is highly questionable)</p>
<p>I agree -- affirmative action for white folks is just dumb. Too bad it has gone on for 10 generations, and continues.</p>
<p>you got me there :)</p>
<p>KIRMUM:</p>
<p>I think the URM bump, whatever that is, is just as good if the kid is well to do. At some schools, it may even be better when a scholarship is not needed.</p>
<p>This is just anecdotal, but we are friends with a very wealthy URM family whose kid had excellent grades, decent ECs, but only mediocre SATs (maybe ~1250 old test?) and was in at most schools applied to, including a lower Ivy & several other TOP Unis and LACs.</p>
<p>Simba, did you catch this article?</p>
<p>I like this exchange.</p>
<p>"WSJ: You changed your financial aid policy so that no Princeton students will be stuck with loans after graduation. Why are Princeton students still overwhelmingly affluent?</p>
<p>Ms. Tilghman: It's not overwhelmingly, but it reflects a reality in this country, which is that the best predictor of SAT scores is family income."</p>
<p>Kirmum, how are you?</p>
<p>A couple of affuent URMs at my kid's hs last year, who graduated with similar stats (1 was lower), were accepted into every college they applied to. Stanford, USC with a scholarship (remember these kids are affluent), Penn and a few other schools. They are going to Stanford. </p>
<p>1 parent is African American, the other is Jewish.</p>
<p>If I was the kid, I would contact the admission officer at a school I'm interested in and that represents my geographical area and let that officer know that I exist.</p>
<p>hmm, i am a affluent URM and i got into Harvard, Columbia, and a slew of other top 25 schools. My friend is also an affluent URM and she is attending Stanford, but was waitlisted at Harvard, and rejected from Yale and accepted to Princeton. But, of course, it must be taken into consideration that we were probably strong candidates without our URM status.</p>
<p>So, i'm not really sure how much of a boost is given.</p>
<p>Remember, too, that we are now squarely into the second generation of AA (or at least discrimination-free admissions). I know a family where both parents are African-American, both were valedictorians of their high school classes (one an Army brat, one a preacher's kid), both went to Harvard, one is a corporate litigator, the other a psychiatrist/minister/professor. Their kids, needless to say, are affluent URMs with good SATs who are also double-legacies at Harvard (triple if you count Mom's MD). Two of them are there now (one in Porcellian - not something his parents experienced, that's for sure); the third (a rising senior, and the smartest) is thinking maybe Stanford (source of Dad's law degree) instead.</p>
<p>Is there anything wrong with this? I don't think so. They would be strong candidates anywhere -- obviously, just being a "strong candidate" usually only gets you a Russian Roulette chance at Harvard, and these kids had about a 100% chance of getting in, but they're not bringing down the standards any. And if you are going to do affirmative action at all, you need to have a critical mass of kids, and you have to have a situation where being black doesn't automatically brand you as being inferior. So its almost as important to have affluent, high-scoring URM kids who are completely comfortable with the dominant academic culture as it is to have diamond-in-the-rough disadvantaged URM kids. Ideally, the former help connect the latter to the rest of the students and the culture, and provide a diversity that gives the lie to racial stereotypes. (Is it perfect? No. Is it stereotyping to suggest that rich black kids are any more nurturing to poor black kids than rich white kids are to poor whites? Yes, but since even with AA the colleges struggle to have a meaningful, stable population of any particular minority group, it more often works out that way than not.)</p>
<p>I have no problem with AA as I see it has its use and college needs it for diversity sake. However I was thinking actually bigger problem in diversity is income disparity. Does college boost chances for to white or Asian (Non URM) exceptionally bright kids but who have financial disadvantages? Are they simply ignored as there are many non URMs who have similar disadvantages and have achievements?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Does college boost chances for to white or Asian (Non URM) exceptionally bright kids but who have financial disadvantages?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>At schools at are actively seeking to recruit, admit and enroll more low income students and have initiatives in place to accomplish this; most of the ivies, stanford, amherst, williams, schools that have partnered with organizations like questbridge & the posse foundation the boost is there regardless of race.</p>
<p>hmmm, well to respond to some of these posts:
I'm a low-income hispanic female, and ironically I live in a very affluent area of NY, but of course I live in the 'poor' side. My dad (the only income) makes about 25,000 a year, and for me it's VERY difficult and I don't consider it fair for me to be compared to the affluent students of where I live whose parents are doctors/lawyers/dentists+legacies, while my dad is a slaesman, and my mother a former McDonalds employee. I scored a 187 on the PSAT (I made it to the Hispanic Recognition Program), and my unweighted GPA is a 3.5. With the 187 I've received Ivy mail from all, except Princeton. From many, I received invitations to summer programs but I couldn't attend any because even with the school's reduced price, my family can't afford it. I've also received invitations to attend over-night visits, but again I can't afford to pay 135 dollars to visit Cornell over-night. But I will be visiting UPenn this August because it only cost 36 a person. I completely agree with northstarmom, for instance, I took AP Chemistry as a junior and even though I scored a 3 on the test,(which Im really happy with), my average for the class was a 78. (3.12). I took AP French Lang, and scored a 3 (82 average) and Spanish Lang which Im sure I got a 5 on (95 average). When I took the SAT I unfortunately got a 1760, so I will retake and Ill study a lot before October comes along.
So with that said, it gets me really mad when I read away messages that say something like outside on the porch studying French because I feel its so unfair that he/she gets to have his/her own backyard and room to study in peacefully, while I get nothing. I always ask myself why me? But thats no ones fault. And its really hard to study when youre in a two bedroom apt trying to study with 5 other people around.
But I did recently move to a 3 bedroom apt, and my older sister is leaving for college this august, and for the 1st time ever, Ill have my own room, which I think will definitely help me have an outstanding senior midyear report. So all I have left to do is study hard, and hope for the best.</p>
<p>Iwant2, I'll just attribute your post to teenage anxiety. Try to be more encouraged about the opportunities that are now coming to you. Otherwise, you'll never enjoy college.</p>
<p>Iwant2,
There are summer programs (CMU summer programs for Diversity, MIT Mites, Grinnell Honor Scholar) and tours (Dartmouth, WUSTL, Amherst, Macalester and others) that are fully paid by the college (including travel costs in some cases). It's too late for the summer programs, but you can get in on some of the fall tours; and there are several schools that pay for URM's to visit in the spring after acceptances (Emory, WUSTL, Vandy, Dartmouth, etc.). Either talk to your GC as dstark recommends or go onto the college websites and contact admissions personnel, many of these schools have people dedicated to minority recruitment.</p>
<p>There are special programs (Questbridge) and many scholarships that are aimed at low income URM's only. I know you have a lot to do, but if your parents or GC can't help, you need to try and seek some of these opportunities out yourself. You're doing a great job, good luck!</p>
<p>thanks, and it's funny that you mention questbridge, i get mail from them every onci in a while, but never thought much of it...</p>
<p>Since you're in New York, you should check the Posse Foundation. Posse currently has sites in five major cities across the United States: Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, New York and Washington, D.C</p>
<p><a href="http://www.possefoundation.org/%5B/url%5D">http://www.possefoundation.org/</a></p>
<p>You should also check to see if your family's income meets the HEOP guidelines </p>
<p>Thank you guys!!</p>
<p>This admission year I know a half Hispanic girl who is a daughter of a friend and had the surname of her father, born in Mexico, who is now a physician, though his father was a factory worker. She does not qualify for need.</p>
<p>The girl had about 1420 old SAT, about evenly split. She received the award for outstanding Junior girl in a large wealthy suburban highschool. She would have been one of the co-valedictorians if she had not made some's C's in her senior year.after coming back from a service program in rual Nicaragua during the summer, which gave her some reverse culture shock. She went to state in tennis, did pretty well in orchestra etc.</p>
<p>She got into Chicago with money, Rice with money, where she is going, Brown, Northwestern, and was rejected from Yale and Harvard.</p>
<p>iwanttogotocollege,
If you can't afford the transportation to the overnights that you're invited to, e-mail or call the colleges and explain your situation to them as you've explained it to us. Let them know about your income, scores (including APs), etc. There's a good chance that some of those colleges will fly you in. </p>
<p>You are a very attractive candidate for top colleges because you are a URM with excellent scores and also are low income.
Also, take the time to review the various info on CC about colleges offering merit aid and about outside merit aid like the Gates Millenium scholarships. You'd be a great candidate for those scholarships, too.</p>
<p>"This is just anecdotal, but we are friends with a very wealthy URM family whose kid had excellent grades, decent ECs, but only mediocre SATs (maybe ~1250 old test?) and was in at most schools applied to, including a lower Ivy & several other TOP Unis and LACs."</p>
<p>A 600 V or M on the SAT is the 94th percentile for African Americans. A 650 v or math is the 98th percentile for African Americans. For everyone, a 600 v is the 76th percentile, a 600 math is the 67th percentile. A 650 v is the 87th percentile, a 650 m is the 80th percentile.</p>
<p>I imagine that the score distribution for top athletes would be similar probably a stellar athlete with a 1250 on the old SAT would end up getting similar acceptances as did the URM whom you described. According to what I've heard from Harvard's admissions officers, a 1200 on the old SAT is about the lowest SAT score that indicates that an applicant would have the ability to be able to graduate from Harvard. I imagine that other top unis and LACs see things similarly.</p>