<p>
</p>
<p>Absolutely true.</p>
<p>But the notion that affluent suburban black kids, affluent suburban Korean kids and affluent suburban WASP kids all grow up in the same milieu and all have the same life experiences would be equally absurd.</p>
<p>Sikorsky,
I was struggling with how to phrase this ^ point; you did so eloquently.</p>
<p>So you’d rather take the private school, legacy African-American over the poor, first-generation Asian kid? Come on.</p>
<p>Nope, I’d prefer a holistic admissions process. In some cases I might prefer the private school legacy, depending on what else he had to offer, in some cases the first generation Asian kid, but once a certain “strong enough to do the work” threshold has been passed I hate to see lines drawn based strictly on data.</p>
<p>I figured when African Americans apply they’re being compared to other African Americans I was just never sure</p>
<p>"So you’d rather take the private school, legacy African-American over the poor, first-generation Asian kid? Come on. " </p>
<p>Your question is a straw man. Please read or re-read my assertions in post #10.</p>
<p>^
I’m well-aware of the “pooling” system. I’m proposing that we reform that and make it so that everyone competes against everyone else.</p>
<p>I am a political liberal and am well-aware that race is a social construct and carries with it many consequences, etc.</p>
<p>"Per the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, scoring 700 or higher in math puts you in top 1% of AAs (class of 2016) and the same for 700 or higher in verbal (not composite, but one test or the other). Scoring 650 or higher = top 2% in math and same for verbal (not composite, but separate scores). Therefore, if you can bump up your scores to the 650 range for both CR and M, you should be a very competitive candidate for the top schools, including Cornell. Good luck! "</p>
<p>I don’t think that’s quite right. The data you are quoting about 700 and above scores is from College Board. The top one percentile leaves about black 2000 black kids with the same or better score. JBHE publishes data alluding to admit rates of black students to “top schools”. The admit rate for black students at Cornell for Fall 2011 is 19 percent with the overall admit rate being 18 percent. It’s hard to know what to make of it, but I agree it seems a black student with 700’s or above IS very competitive. 700 is top 5 percent for girls, and top 9 percent for boys, overall.</p>
<p>College admissions is the one time in your life when you feel bad about being white or Asian.</p>
<p>I love how T26EF defends AA so relentlessly. Race shouldn’t be a factor at ALL but I can see why you defend it so much, when someone has a unfair advantage over someone they barely ever want to relinquish that advantage.</p>
<p>P.S. I hope the Supreme Court strikes down AA</p>
<p>@GSAthwal perhaps you would like to strike down all pooling? What other factors come into play when forming a class? How about gender? Many schools have more female than male students. If they rule AA unconstitutional, it is for ALL classifications (like Gender). </p>
<p>Perhaps we should simply have a college admissions clearinghouse, where everybody submits their application/stats for ranking, and a ranking of their preferred school. Top ranked student gets first pick, and work down the line. As you move down the line, students end up at their third, fifth, or 100th choice. Sounds wonderful, doesn’t it? Never mind that you’ll have arguments over how to weigh the experience at each high school, or the value of high SAT vs. GPA. The top schools will all get the most qualified students.</p>
<p>Maybe we should require colleges to pick their athletes from among those who qualify this way too. Could make for some interesting teams. The same with the school of music - so sorry nobody has played the oboe for the past 8 years, perhaps you’ll have to convince one of the new students to start?</p>
<p>If students who are not capable of succeeding are being admitted, then that should stop, but how can that be completely quantified? Even some of the best looking candidates don’t succeed. If selecting from an otherwise qualified pool of applicants, colleges (and employers, and anyone else) should be free to choose as they wish.</p>
<p>GSAthwal: FYI, I’m in a group that in peoples’ calculus will be negatively affected. I’m Chinese-American. But I also value the fact that my alma mater crafted a class where the sole determinant was not GPA/scores/income level. I’m very glad they set aside slots for athletes, international students, musicians, ethnic minorities, etc.</p>
<p>I made it in with SATs about the 30th percentile of my HYP alma mater’s entering class. I’m sure that there were many other Asian-american applicants that year that had better stats than me yet were rejected. However, I’m sure my “story” was what got me in. Yep. I was a beneficiary of holistic admissions. But not in the way you might surmise.</p>
<p>If anyone wants to apply to a pure meritocracy evaluation system, they certainly are not without options. As a matter of fact, +80% of American colleges practice this. Send in your transcripts and scores – voila. Your answer is given.</p>
<p>But you can’t have your cake and eat it too. The so-called “top schools” like Cornell et. al. get criticized for their murky holistic evaluation methods and “quotas” or set-asides or affirmative action – or in my earlier posts, “pooling”. People decry the unfairness of it and are ready to charge the ramparts to get them to alter *the very method * they chose to get them the great student bodies they possess. They want them to turn into Seoul University or IIT. Cornell’s trustees and alumni think otherwise. </p>
<p>And what is the consequence? Do we see the holistic-admissions schools plummeting in the USNWR rankings (which I agree, is trash)? No. They are firmly entrenched. As a matter of fact, the so-called 2nd tier schools are adopting the holistic model in order to rise in the rankings.</p>
<p>Reality is that the tide is going away from you, GSAthwal. Like I posted elsewhere: make your case to the colleges. State your claim. Argue your point. If there is a listening ear, then you’ll be considered. Maybe the Supreme Court’s ruling may alter the landscape. Who knows?</p>
<p>How I see it is that the colleges have considered it already and feel their path is the correct one. If USNWR reflects the greater society’s view of “worth” then they concur.</p>
<p>I’ll add this: those of you who are decrying pooling. What then do you say about US colleges who place quotas on International acceptances? Isn’t the limitation on this sub-set an “unfair” limit? Why shouldn’t the best and brightest of India, Singapore, China, Russia and S Korea have equal access? Shouldn’t their 2360 SAT applicants be able to nudge out your local valedictorian?</p>
<p>The # of seats at any school is a finite number. It’s a zero sum game. Allot more seats to one group, you gotta take it away from another.</p>
<p>I don’t see people carrying the banner of “MORE International students at Ivy schools”. But if a legacy, URM or athlete gets to compete amongst other legacies, URMs or athletes – they are immediately targeted for “taking away” the seat of a “more qualified” White or Asian applicant. Inconsistent much?</p>
<p>Guys, shut up. This is not the thread.</p>
<p>WOW, as an African American female first generation college student, I did not have many resources but with practice I managed to score over 2000 on the SAT. Please do not rely on your race to get you admitted into college OP, succeeding at Cornell if you do happen to get in will not come easy, nothing in life is easy.</p>
<p>You’re right and I never said I relied on my race I’ve been studying just as hard as anybody I just needed to know students that are in the same situation as me. Thanks for responding</p>
<p>To those whites who resent blacks for taking “your” spots in University admissions, please do note that you are also beneficiaries of AA policies that favor whites over Asians. In fact, I could argue that blacks take far less white spots than whites take from Asians. Just some food for though…</p>
<p>Thanks for resurrecting a 2 year old thread to say that</p>
<p>I’m an URM and I get in on 1800 flat. Make sure the rest of your application is perfect, especially essays. Most of the black kids I know that got in had 2000+ test scores, so really keep trying.</p>
<p>There are many students at Cornell with a SAT score of 1850 or 1900. But, virtually all of them proved they were ready for Cornell by taking calculus physics and chemistry and getting top grades.</p>
<p>If you took AP Calculus, AP Chemistry, AP Physics and got an ‘A’, your SAT score becomes meaningless. </p>
<p>The College Board says that 90% of students with an 1800 SAT earn a ‘B’ average their first year of college compared with 95% of those with a 2200.</p>
<p>The fact that 5% of top scorers struggle their first year shows the flaw of putting too much weight on SAT scores.</p>