<p>My younger son changes his direction frequently, but older s is driven, clear and focused in his vocation and his avocation. My s’s are very philanthropic and volunteerisnm is a big part of their lives. This fits into their work and play. When my older s was home a summer or two ago, going through old papers in his room, he came across an autobiography he wrote in 5th grade. He had no memory of writing this, but in it he wrote a very uniquely specific job/career/college major. Again, he had no memory of writing it, and its surprising he even knew what that was , but three guesses what he majored in in college and is the field he is working in today!! He works hard, but will still make the time to do his volunteer work, which involves meetings and travel to third world countries. It gives him quality of life, and it makes his parents proud. Younger s-- ask me tomorrow what he plans to do. It might change… LOL</p>
<p>My D has taken a wide variety of courses, corresponding with her wide variety of interests. She likes the structure classes offer to investigate things of interest. S also has pretty widespread interests but mostly is able to pursue them independently of any courses or other people. D’s counselor was always surprised by D’s range of interests and courses, as well as the assortment of majors she was considering–neuroscience, cinema, English, art, and even architecture were all considered. She has finally settled on a major that allows her considerable flexibility.</p>
<p>It can be hard to know what will be “marketable” down the road. When the kids were growing up, I often told them I wanted them to know how to think, learn and work with others because those were the skills they would need throughout their lives. It is likely our kids will have multiple CAREERS in their lives, so I consider all that they learn and their experiences as good to have a broad background and be able to translate it into whatever they may end up doing down the road–for fun and/or profit. 
</p>
<p>When H & I were in school in the stone age, there were few computer courses but H knew that was what he wanted to do. He got his degree in accounting & has done most of his learning on the job over the past many decades. I expect our kids will do a lot of learning on the job as well. I have learned much as I have embarked on my non-profit expedition & enjoyed it immensely. It has taken skills I picked up throughout my life to make it this far–can’t wait to see what evolves next. ;)</p>
<p>limabeans - have to agree with your post. I’m another example of someone who studied for something that I never really ended up doing much with (journalism). Years down the road, my path took a completely different turn and I returned to school for my master’s degree in a field no one who ever knew me in the slightest would have ever guessed I’d pursue. However, let me tell you how valuable that journalism degree was when I had to write all those papers for my master’s! When I was in my master’s program (started in my late 30s), I was by far not the youngest in my program. It was refreshing to see so many second-career people pursuing what they felt called to do later in their lives. </p>
<p>When my daughters chose their majors (they both entered college with declared majors and stayed with them all the way through), I never assumed they’d be locked into those career decisions for the rest of their lives.</p>
<p>I am a classroom teacher. I do not advise students every day but after being together with some of them for 15 weeks session, I something do impart bits of advice. To have any sort of plan that makes sense, you have to start with career goals and work ones way back to college programs. </p>
<p>No, my oldest son, smart kid, does not want to work 90 hours a week to pay for his big house. We know that going in. My son doesn’t mind working weekends, if that is what the job requires, as long as it is a job he loves. </p>
<p>He is not interested in a corporate grind. Sorry, but no thanks. </p>
<p>Many of the students I see on a day to day basis have very vague ideas of what a career really entails. Their plans are unrealistic in many cases. It isn’t easy to plan a career or a life, I know that, but many mistakes can be avoided on the front end if one at least tries. There are no for sure clear cut answers but you don’t have to settle for perfect clarity when doing research.</p>
<p>terwitt - your story is a very good example of what I am trying to get at. D was very concerned about declaring a major at time of application (a requirement at her school). H and I had many lengthy discussions with her along the lines of - your major is not a life sentence. It can however, be a major door opener especially for a young person with little experience trying to enter the workforce.</p>
<p>As much as it upsets some posters when this gets said, the immediate future of a graduate is impacted by employment possibilities and debt load. So doesn’t it make sense to have a realistic discussion with our kids? For example…an accounting major will most likely let them live independently upon graduation, many liberal arts majors may not. NO, I am not placing a negative value judgment on the liberal arts major but I am saying it is a parental responsibility to explore the most likely outcomes. After enjoying the freedom of independent and initial debt free living the door to a second career, via grad school or just gained life experience can be opened.</p>
<p>Then again, what do I know…Guy Kawasaki (the original chief evangelist of Apple Computer) recently spoke to a group of students and parents at S HS. His advice…stay in college as long as possible (yes, you could hear the parental groan), because it’s the only time in life you will have that much time to explore and think. Then again, when he was going through the process the times were much different. Oh, and he can afford to keep his kids in any school for as long as they may want to stay and then support them for the rest of their lives. I suspect many of us may not be in that position :)</p>
<p>I think it is both a good question and an impossible question. At my D’s school, they spent easily AS MUCH time on researching and studying career options, as they do college searches. I think its valuable. At the same time, I think its impossible for kids to really know what they will want to be when they ‘grow up’. Even more seasoned adults would have great difficulty with this question. Oh sure, many kids may be able to give a definitive answer, but it’s also as likely to be very wrong as very right. Reading about careers, hearing about careers, from the outside, doesn’t arm someone with a deeper understanding of themselves, how they think, what their strengths happen to be, or what would fulfill their lives. Likewise, with no sense of reality around what it means to work in X environment, pay bills, the day to day of a given occupation (which evolves over time), and raising kids, having relationships, while working and so on… wow, that is a big question.</p>
<p>I also think it is important for teens to spend <em>years</em> talking to their families about all that matters from costs of education, to compound interest, to how much houses cost, to how many days vacation most people get. To know how professional schools and graduate programs work. To get work experience and volunteer experience. And to travel as much as possible, so they can see that there are a billion ways to live one’s life. They need exposure and a sense of the reality of being an adult, not just looking in catalogues about lists of careers or visiting pretty campuses. </p>
<p>But I feel very sad actually when I see all these highschool kids on CC stating, very forthright that they are going to do x, y, z! While it is great to have a dream, a plan that helps you move forward, it seems utterly constraining and HUGELY stressful to put that onto 17 or 18 year olds. The burden we are passing to them is “okay tell us exactly what your life goals are and how you are about to achieve them?” UGH. </p>
<p>I think at best, they <em>might</em> figure out what they want to do next year with regards to a potential future and that should be good enough. The reason being their goals are likely to change many times over, and even if their goals do not change, there are THOUSANDS of paths to the same goal! </p>
<p>The message should be what are the many things you think right now you might like doing as an adult? Where in the world might you live? Big city, small town? Do you think you might want a family? Are cars important to you? Do you think its important to speak several languages? Do you like working in groups? Admire people with lots of hobbies, or who have lived in the same community for 40 years, or are you someone who ants to see the world? One career or 12? Is income or prestige a big deal to you? Own business or work for someone? So keep all that in mind as you go down the path, try to see the options and learn about yourself, stay open to change, and with what you <em>think</em> right now, what of many many first steps would you like would to choose between JUST for next year?</p>
<p>A little humble suggestion for anyone reading the ideas on this thread. One, it isn’t that hard to “show” a young (or for that matter an old person) how repaying a loan will reduce after college discretionary income. </p>
<p>Simply set up an excel schedule and with a few assumptions about income, tax and spending rates you can demonstrate clearly, objectively with numbers what carrying debt does to someone over their lives. </p>
<p>With regard to planning…</p>
<p>Don’t over think it. </p>
<p>You can always change course later although if you major in math it might not help you be a ballet dancer and if you major in art it might not help you be a banker…that said… the best advice I can give you:</p>
<p>Have a Plan A. Work really really hard to make Plan A happen. But, if not, have a Plan B ready. A contigency plan, if you will.</p>
<p>Planning is better than not planning.</p>
<p>Isn’t this question what the previous 18 years of child rearing is supposed to accomplish? Children are sponges and, in many ways, become what their parents raise them to be.</p>
<p>Our kids had as HS assignments to assume that they had various jobs & made various budgets on how they would live if they had those jobs. It was eye-opening. They were supposed to pay rent, utilities, taxes, food & transportation at jobs ranging from minimum wage to salaried of their choice. Scouts has a badge required for eagle scout that requires some personal budgetting & financial planning as well. This helps even WITHOUT mention of loans & reduced discretionary spending.</p>
<p>I thought kids go to college precisely so they can put off those questions for four years.</p>
<p>^^^^^ Yup… and they are known as KIPPERS - kids in parents’ pockets endangering retirement savings ;)</p>
<p>If all 17 yr olds entered college only with the goal of getting a job and earning money, I think we would be missing quite a few poets, philosophers, sculptors, writers, etc. I know that it isn’t the prevailing attitude, but I tell my kids to follow their passions for as long as they can - the real world will intrude soon enough. I believe that if you are truly passionate about what you do, money is a very secondary concern. (That being said, I also told my very passionate kids that under no circumstances should they incur debt to pay for college - considering that their future careers are not likely to be lucrative!)</p>
<p>My D is following her passion, and she is committed to making it financially on her own. She started out in a science major, but she decided during freshman year that while she is good at math & science … she doesn’t like it. She switched schools and switched majors, taking courses that interested her. Outside of school, she found internships that supported her career goals. Hopefully, she will get a job in a few months in the music industry … not related to her major. I am thrilled that she is following her heart, because I know she will make it work … and be happy.</p>
<p>My S is 18, and he is still searching for a career path. However, he really likes science, so a bio degree will lead to a career down the road. I am not concerned that he isn’t sure yet what he wants to “do” … he will figure it out.</p>
<p>H & I went to a co-op college and were very practical in terms of your studies. We are happy, but we have friends who studied less practical majors yet are quite successful (and happy) today. I think the most important thing is the inner motivation and drive (as well as intelligence & connections!).</p>
<p>D1 is graduating this year, and she is following my foot steps. She has pretty much said to me that she would like to continue to live the way we have and have a family similar to ours. I don’t know if we should be flattered, or wonder if we haven’t allowed her to explore other opportunities.</p>
<p>D1 didn’t go through a teenage rebellious stage. We were always able to communicate and for lack of better words, “soul mate.” She picked her “desk” (a particular business on a trading desk), similar to mine 25 years ago, without knowing what I did. I wondered if she would be happy this summer when she did her internship, but she loved it (like I did when I first started out). D1 wants a power job, marry a great husband, and raise a family. I was very lucky that H was very supportive of everything I wanted to do, it included him taking a back seat to mine career. I just wondered if D1 would be so lucky.</p>
<p>D2 is still an unknown. She writes beautifully and takes after H in many respects. I would like her to pursue her passion, whatever that maybe, but she is just as driven as D1 (in doing well financially). Right now, D2 wants to become a lawyer (go to a top UG school in order to go to a top law school), and I wonder if we would be missing out on a great writer in D2 if she were to become a lawyer. At the same time, would she be happier as a struggling writer, instead of a mediocre lawyer at a top law firm.</p>
<p>I struggle with our kids pursuing their artsy side(passion) vs financial security.</p>
<p>It is unrealistic to expect our 17 or 18 years old to know what they want to do the rest of their lives. There are so many of us who have studied one thing and ended up in another field, in fact many fields. Heck, I am still discovering what I want to do for the next 5 years and I have 2 kids in their 20’s.</p>
<p>I think those are great questions, even if the student has no idea what the answers are.
I think as parents one job we have is to help our kids learn how to know themselves and how to assess themselves… and how to change. </p>
<p>If a teacher says there is an opportunity for one student to do each of the following, which would you jump at, if any? The one that will bring the most accolades, the one that will be the most challenging, the one that is in your favorite activity the one with your best friend, none because you’d rather be home, none because you don’t want to stand out? Would you rather take classes where you can master every bit of material, and shine, and do the extra credit work, and get A’s, and have the teacher recognize your achievement… or take classes in esoteric, advanced, challenging, strange subjects that you are sometimes lost in, perhaps risk a failing quiz grade and an odd look from the TA, but have your mind blown… etc etc etc…And then translated to work life…
I ask my younger son all the time… not about specific careers, but… do you want to just go into your job, do your work and come home and have as much time as possible without thinking about work? Do you want your work to be incredibly intellectually exciting and to wake up in the middle of the night and say wow about it? Do you want to work from home in your pjs? work with a crowd of diverse or like minded people? Do you want to COMPETE for a job, or take whatever comes your way? Keep trying until you get where you want to be, or settle into something pretty decent and live a cozy life in your community?</p>
<p>Then, talk about… what kind of fanciness of degree do you need? How much debt is it worth having if you are X kind of person? If you think you are X kind of person, might you become Y kind of person? If you decide on a fancy school and have lots of debt, what might your regrets be? If you choose an inexpensive school and it happens to not open all the doors you want, what regrets then? What are the advantages of each choice?</p>
<p>Over time you circle back over the topics… (in my case, obsess and annoy your kid) and eventually… you pic the list for applications… and you make your final decision, knowing there is never, ever, ever, ever one right answer… you just make the best choice you can for what you know about that student at that time with the info and resources you have in hand at the moment.</p>
<p>Wait. Like all life decisions.</p>
<p>(I am really, really old. I swear. So I accidentally sound wise sometimes.)</p>