<p>I posted this question as part of another discussion where it was a bit off topic.</p>
<p>Are we asking ourselves and our sons and daughters the wrong or maybe just too limited of a question? Instead of status parchment to loan value, instead of what college experience is the right/best/challenging, instead of LAC vs. public vs. private, top 10, top 20 or top 100 vs lower ranked should we be asking our young adults the following:</p>
<p>In a few years when the college experience is just a memory how do you want to be LIVING YOUR LIFE?</p>
<p>College is 4 years maybe a few additional for extended stays and grad school. The point being, the college experience is really only a small portion of a lifetime. The after college phase is with any luck much, much, much longer. </p>
<p>Do they want/desire/have the drive to put in 90+ hour workweeks for years on end to achieve a financial or status goal many years down the line. Do they want to go down a passion/career path, which will require their energy and presence during weekends, holidays and family events as a predictable requirement for success? Do they wish to conscientiously pursue a dream, which will leave them in debt with no reasonably predicable path to relieving themselves of the burden? And, if there is a debt load after graduation, how long are they willing to postpone parts of the next phases of their lives for the privilege of the specific college experience. </p>
<p>And from the parents perspective is it guilt driving us to feel obligated to purchase something which puts us at financial risk. How susceptible have we become, without even knowing, to all the marketing efforts around us. </p>
<p>Okay, that was more than just one question ..</p>
<p>This is actually a great question, however, I don’t think there are too many 17 or 18 year olds that can trully envision themselves in the post graduation years. I don’t believe any of my kids knew what was really involved in the career decisions they were embarking on. One of my kids is headed to the UE for his job post graduation…I don’t know if he realized this when he was 17 and starting college. Would he have chosen a career that was going to take him to this region of the world…who knows? Another son is working 65 plus hours a week since he graduated and it does impact his life a great deal. Will he regret it when he has a family…who knows? I just don’t think there is really a way of discussing these things with kids at that age because none of it seems real to them.
Even the college loan situation is not real to a highschool senior…there minds are in the here and now which is why parents need to be sure they are looking out for the best interest of their children.</p>
<p>The other problem is that I, as a parent, no longer know what my soon-to-be-college graduate dreams and aspires to be or do. I know he’d like to find a job that will allow him to live independently (with roommates of course) but after that…We are so proud that he will graduate, that he accomplished for himself what was also a dream/wish for us. That alone is worth it’s weight in gold as so many kids don’t make it to the end of that particular journey. I hope he’s working 40-50 hours and not 60+, money is small consolation for long hours.</p>
<p>I know it’s very difficult for a 17 or 18 year old to project themselves into the future. But this is exactly the time in their lives when we ask them to make choices which will impact that future. IMHO, the biggest issue is the debt to potential income ratio. I find so may CC postings which support the -best/highest status school at any financial cost position. I just feel like this is doing our kids an injustice.</p>
<p>Excellent questions. Alas, I don’t think I’ve ever met a 17 year old able to think so practically and profoundly at the same time. I’m afraid that posing those questions to an ordinary 12th grader will scare him or her away from college altogether. </p>
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<p>What’s there to feel guilty about? I don’t get it. :o Guilt doesn’t make me provide their food, shelter and medicine. Why would it cause me to provide their education? We work and save, save and work so that at the end of day we can give the best within our budget. I have no comment for anyone who thinks that’s not good enough.</p>
<p>I think these conversations have to start early. Goodness knows we are setting strong examples for our children with the choices we make in our lives, but we also have to encourage them to dream for themselves, to make their own choices. </p>
<p>For us, the first big decision for our son to make was to either continue homeschooling or attend high school. He chose high school. During those high school years we talked about his dreams and desires and asked ourselves “Is college the best way to get there?” We strongly encouraged a gap year but PMKjr chose college and, so far, it’s been a great path for him to be on.</p>
<p>I suppose if I had to sum it up, I want my son to live his life driven by something other than money. Not that money is bad, it’s just not enough to base a life on (in my opinion.) Gosh, I get teary just thinking about this. I just want him to be content, joyful. Yes, productive and compassionate and all of those things too but at his core I hope there is peace.</p>
<p>If a student is planning to, more or less, follow the path of the mother/father in their chosen fields, it might be easier for the student to understand what those kinds of jobs take, since they’ve seen their parents living it. It becomes very interesting when the student wants to take off in a direction very different from the parents and/or other immediate family members. The son who wants to attend Oberlin who’s mother is a West Pointer. The daughter who’s father is a writer who’s decided to embark on studying engineering.</p>
<p>My kids must be odd ducks…every one of them had career path thoughts as 11-12th graders and did fairly extensive career exploration/shadowing. D did change her major as a freshman after she discovered she didn’t like the core subjects as much as she thought she would, but chose another major in the same general sector. The boys were very focused on career choices, although athletics also played a part in their college decisions. D knew she would want a career that would offer her some flexibility when she eventually becomes a mother…that’s still a long way off (I hope), but she was planning for that time as a 16 y.o.! None of them wanted to be responsible for large loans and promptly discarded schools that left big gaps in the FA packages. I just hope they all continue learning, think for themselves, dream big, and keep their feet firmly planted!</p>
And the answer is: no one would conscientiously ask for this. We adults build into the idea of what it takes, and we slowly up-the-ante. But would a 17 yo know what it’s like to have to deal with decisions that a 47 yo has to? It’s unreasonable to think so.</p>
<p>But a 22 year old will have to deal with this situation if they pursue an avenue of study which one can reasonably assume will have a very low starting income from which to draw loan payments. A dream pursued at the cost of high debt load will impact the life of a 22 year old graduate immediately. It will hamper independence, it will hamper choice of career since at that time income will be of primary concern. Taking a short sighted approach to a course of studies can actually hamper the pursuit of dreams. I think it’s very important to have this discussion early on.</p>
<p>My freshman has actually been thinking about it. He’s found out that most IR majors work for a few years and then go to grad school. At this point he’s interested in nuclear disarmament, but some other NGO work may also be in the cards. </p>
<p>Older son is a computer nerd. He had no ambition beyond working for a great company doing what to him seems like interesting stuff. I don’t think he’ll be inventing the next facebook or anything like that!</p>
<p>All these “discussions” about what a field os study will get you, what the loans will cost over years, what a particular job will pay are just talk. Is that what you did dietz199 when you were 17-22 yo? </p>
<p>Let me give you an example of the difference between an 18 yo and a 48 yo. My brother got kicked out of college from having too much fun and too many parties. He got himself back in the following year, with a kiss and a prayer. My sisters and I were shocked he graduated. Skip jump 30 years later. The man now has two (!) graduate degrees, and two truly gifted kids in middle school. He is a high school guidance counselor. He works incredible hours, travels all over the world, gives talks, and works 70+ hour weeks. All this, but he doesn’t get all that well paid. Should he be working in this field because it doesn’t pay a whole lot???</p>
<p>Did my parents sit us down and talk about where we should be working? Don’t think it was all that spelled out because they knew life is a journey. There were twists and turns throughout the path of life with joys and challenges one couldn’t expect. They just wanted us to finish college and get ready for the next opportunity.</p>
<p>I guess the answer you’re expecting to hear is that everyone wants to get into the “big bucks” and work in finance, or in the computer field. What about teachers and social workers? You don’t necessarily choose those fields for the high-living lifestyle.</p>
<p>The thing that surprises me most is how fast it all happens. One minute, my D is in college, the next minute she is on her own, a research assistant and earning her master’s degree while getting a yearly $14,000 stipend. I go from paying $35,000 a year to paying $0. My S, a junior who has never seemed interested in his job outlook, is suddenly pressing hard for an internship this summer that could lead to a job in his liberal artsy area (his 3.8 GPA at a well-known techie college will help; writing is no good these days if you can’t support it with technical expertise). I trust and support their decisions; I don’t feel that because I am 50 that I have all - or even any - of the “answers.” When I graduated from college at 19 (married and with a job as a journalist) I so appreciated the adults that treated me like I was grown up because, in fact, I was. The one thing I have always tried to share with my kids: money doesn’t buy happiness but it sure comes in handy.</p>
<p>We have done our best to lead by example–try to do things we love (or at least mostly enjoy) that pay at least enough to keep us afloat and live well under our income level (to the extent possible). If we can’t afford to pay off whatever we purchase (with the exception of the mortgage for our home), we don’t buy it. </p>
<p>We do not have crushing debt and do not want either of our kids to have it. This gives everyone a lot more breathing room to “find their chocolate ice cream,” and not feel they HAVE to take a job that can make a dent in their crushing debt loans. </p>
<p>My folks did not allow us to graduate with crushing debt (in fact, upon graduation, they insisted upon paying off everyone’s loans). This has allowed all of us to find jobs where we feel we are contributing and that we enjoy. When we are miserable, we have the flexibility to leave and find something that is more suitable, even if it pays considerably less.</p>
<p>Kids really can’t have any good sense of how much $100,000 or even $40,000 is and how long it can take to pay off over what period of time and how large a shadow it will cast. It really is far beyond their comprehension and we as responsible parents & adults need to step up and both lead by example and help them make good choices. There are always choices to be made–sometimes the options aren’t as varied or attractive as we’d like, but they affect our future options and choices.</p>
<p>No matter what they are planning for, the job of today may or may not be there tomorrow. From another perspective, some jobs do not exist today. Who would have thought of establishing Face Book 30 years ago when Internet and e-mail just existed in military and some universities?
It is important to teach kids to want to make a difference, and hopefully, make a living at the same time. That is what I want my 18 year-old to do.
Yes, I am also trying to get him interested in IB for big $$$. However, I am not sure the high paying job at the Wall Street will still be there 10 years from now.
He likes Biology, can get all A’s in them without any efforts. I think I would just leave him alone, as far as career direction is concerned. Trust me: Kids know better in making his/her own decisions when the decision needs to be made. My parents never told me to be in marketing and here I am, after gotten my Ph.D. in chemistry. It is funny to see how it all turned out… I am sure our offsprings are smart and diligent enough to choose their own optimal path in their lives. I have faith in them.</p>
<p>Ummmm…yes as a matter of fact. As the child of immigrants who lost everything, stability was highly encouraged. And since you asked. </p>
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<p>The issue is not big or little bucks, the issue is starting on a path with eyes open. A focus on just the years at college without a look beyond is self limiting. And as an example…I did pursue a course of study which was not my true passion (just didn’t think philosophy was going to get me past the bakery job I had at the time). With a bit of frugality within 5 years there was enough of a buffer to leisurely pursue other interests. With the combined luck of meeting a like minded spouse (who chose not to pursue technical theatre studies - you know those late nights and weekends away from family required by that type of career choice) we were able to make other life decisions without a financial cloud hanging over our heads. He’s now volunteering 10 hrs a week at our S HS theatre, is involved in another local HS theatre projects and has remodeled our community theatre. I have continued studies in philosophy while being a stay at home mom. I’ve also been able pursue volunteering activities with animal rescue groups.</p>
<p>So, yes, this is what we’ve modeled for our kids. </p>
<p>Curious that the question should cause such a defensive angry response.</p>
<p>In terms of choosing a field of study or anything for that matter, I have asked my son to look from the perspective of Return On Investment (ROI). Although we are going to pay anything and everything for 4-year education, if he chooses a direction, he must justify why he chooses the way he does. What the ROI is. If it just for the heck of it, and makes no sense, or it is a dead-end, then I would ask him to pay for half of it, have him to feel the pain and have “skin in the game” so to speak.</p>