<p>I have seen some interest in this site regarding becoming an astronaut. The below item might interest you. This is for the NASA astronaut selection class for this year. If I am not mistaken, these six were the ones that the AF entered into the selection pool that just closed on July 1. Think of them as being nominated but not accepted and you get the idea…</p>
<p>AF Picks Six Candidates for Astronaut Training
An Air Force board has selected six Air Force Space Command officers as candidates to serve as mission specialists on future NASA manned space missions. They are: Maj. James E. Smith, Air Force Element, Buckley Air Force Base (AFELM); Maj. Jay A. Orson, AFELM; Capt. Matthew R. Allen, AFELM; Maj. William J. Christopher, Global Positioning System Wing; Maj. James P. Lake, GPS Squadron; and Maj. David J. Laird, 1st Space Launch Squadron. They were picked from a pool of 213 nominees.</p>
<p>Thought I would provide a little more background information. These are the number of AF and Navy candidates selected in each astronaut class in the Shuttle Era (More about why I chose the shuttle era astronauts below). Note that these are the branches, not the school graduated from.</p>
<p>1978: Navy 9 ; Air Force 10.
1980: Navy 3; Air Force 6.
1984: Navy 5; Air Force 5.
1985: Navy 3; Air Force 3.
1987: Navy 3; Air Force 4.
1990: Navy 1; Air Force 7.
1992: Navy 6; Air Force 2.
1995: Navy 5; Air Force 5.
1996: Navy 10; Air Force 5.
1998: Navy 7; Air Force 2.
2000: Navy 3; Air Force 7.
2004: Navy 1; Air Force 1.</p>
<p>Why I chose the Shuttle era... it relates to the USNA vs. USAFA count. USNA has had more astronauts total, but when you factor in the "head start" that USNA had (because the first USAFA class graduated in 1959 no USAFA grads were at the point in their careers to be Mercury, Gemini or Apollo astronauts) the USNA in the Shuttle era has still had more, but only by slim margin.</p>
<p>By the way, I am not trying to start an interservice rivalry thing here. I have worked with astronauts from all branches and have been impressed with them all (even the West Pointers) :) </p>
<p>Showing my colors a little bit, I DO get tired of hearing how many more USNA astronauts there have been than USAFA - people seem not to take into account the head start factor.</p>
<p>Here's to a good buddy of mine, Col Mike Good, USAF, who will be a mission specialist on the next shuttle launch (Oct-ish, but it keeps getting shifted to the right). He will be performing a couple of space walks to repair the Hubble.</p>
<p>I will be the one watching the launch on TV, doing my best Gus Grissom imitation as I scream "Go, Hotdog! Go!" as the shuttle clears the pad...</p>
<p>How many of these are pilots/missions specialists. I know they let AF pilots apply, but can any officer that meets the criteria apply? Like, can doctors and PhD's apply through the AF? (How does that affect payback time?)</p>
<p>Cran, the shuttle missions are usually flying these days with a crew of 7. Outside of the Commander and Pilot, the other 5 are usually non-pilot types. Lots of Docs, AF scientists, and even the occasional WSO or two (i.e. Col Good). </p>
<p>First step: bust your patootie in school (a technical / engineering degree is the usual path). Second step: whatever job you get in the AF, continue to bust your patootie. The folks selected are ALWAYS at the top in their career fields; they pedal faster and harder than everyone else, and keep up that pace the entire time. Third step (for the flyer types): test flight school. Probably the hardest selection process outside of NASA itself. </p>
<p>For Astronaut slots, usually over 200 candidates apply for each class, just from the AF side, and the AF usually only picks 10 or so to compete. </p>
<p>Bottom Line: you want this, you got to earn it.</p>
<p>I guess Pima was counting the years he kept applying. First selected to compete by the AF in 97 (or so), a couple of years after completing Test Flight School. </p>
<p>Regardless, it's been a looooong, hard road for Bueno working towards his dream. I'm happy he'll finally get to go. I'll even knock off the Fightin' Irish jokes (for a few minutes) when I see him next. But only for a few minutes; how can I let him live down how they got beat by Navy!</p>
<p>I have it as USNA 40 and USAFA 36 (Wikipedia is wrong on their count of 34). Anyhow, I do acknowledge that USNA has had more even if you only count the Shuttle Era.</p>
<p>BTW - As I went back and looked at some of the photos and names I realized that I'm starting to get old! Brought back mostly good memories though.</p>
<p>Yep, without personally counting, the consensus seems to be 36. Since mission specialists now are coming from everywhere, the academies would seem to excel in the production of pilots. Any idea how many pilots each academy has produced?</p>
<p>USNA69 - I decided to take some time to answer your question.</p>
<p>I had to do a little digging for this one and will not guarantee the accuracy of the data because I did not count a second time to verify (call the accuracy +/- a couple of people), but it was based on NASAs official bios. I counted the number of USNA and USAFA graduates who flew as either Shuttle Commander or Pilot in their astronaut careers. It was interesting that some who I thought would have been either a Shuttle CDR or PLT were not. A good example is a USAFA graduate, C. Lacy Veach, who was a Thunderbird Pilot and who flew twice on STS missions as a mission specialist, but never a pilot.</p>
<p>My count is 20 USNA graduates have served as either Shuttle CDR or PLT. 27 USAFA graduates have done the same. These numbers surprised even me.</p>
<p>Soaring Dad, Thanks for doing the research. It is pretty much what I expected , slightly more AFA pilots and a few more USNA MS slots. You never explained why this is a 'surprise' to you.</p>
<p>As NASA has moved away from the NFO/non-tac air communities for mission specialists, it is more difficult to establish a data base for these candidates. However, for pilots, the requirements between services is almost identical. Since the AFA tac air base is probably four or more times greater (strictly my guess) than that of USNA grads, and the total numbers selected is almost identical, what is the lesson here? Does NASA attempt to select roughly the same from each service such that the USNA grad has a four times greater chance of being selected? Is the USNA grad, by nature of his selection and training, four times as competitive as his AFA counterpart? Either way, back to my original position on another thread, if one wishes a career in NASA, the Navy is the way to go.</p>
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[quote]
Does NASA attempt to select roughly the same from each service such that the USNA grad has a four times greater chance of being selected? Is the USNA grad, by nature of his selection and training, four times as competitive as his AFA counterpart? Either way, back to my original position on another thread, if one wishes a career in NASA, the Navy is the way to go.
[/quote]
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<p>From my recent talks with some friends (both pilots and MS) who are there now, it's your first reason; NASA is playing fair and attempts to select equal number of pilots from both services as part of it's acceptance equation. Some years they pick more from the AF, some years more from the Navy...</p>
<p>Does this mean you have a greater chance to get in flying for the Navy? Statisically, sure (since you have a smaller field to choose from). From my years of flying fighters, I find that both sides are pretty much equal in getting the mission done, so I don't think it's an ability thing. Thinking of this another way, you'll have four times as many guys from the AF applying for each class, so it's four times more competitive on our side. Does this mean the AF pilot's are that much better because their selection process is that much tougher? Absolutely not. I have been told from those there that the ability is equal amongst both services within the NASA pilot corps. </p>
<p>So, statistically, 69 is right, you have a smaller pool to compete against, so you'll have a better chance of getting a NASA slot from the Navy than from the AF. But in the end, it doesn't really matter (and is a useless debate based on trivial service rivalry). The equation for selection is simple: be the best darn pilot around you, work harder than anyone else by a mile, and keep focused on your dream constantly. The color of service dress uniform plays little to no part in that.</p>
<p>There a bit of history to this that can be found in different places on the net. First, remember that from the 50-60’s, the Air Force did most of our space research and was the lead in military efforts in space. When JFK moved to de-militarize space and created NASA; which took over many of the USAF space projects while cancelling others such as the MOL. Two things quietly occured; first, the Air Force was a bit bitter by this action and didn’t support the initial efforts of NASA; while the Air Force allowing many who were already working on projects with NASA, they re-assigned many others who where working on pure military programs back to USAF research and testing. </p>
<p>Second, This opened the door for the Navy to quickly allow their pilots to apply for slots when they had few opportunities when the Air Force had space research. Under NASA, the USAF made it a bit more difficult as AF pilots first had to complete advanced test pilot training as a prerequisite for AF approval while Navy pilots did not have such a requirement to apply. It didn’t hurt that some of the directors at NASA were former Navy admirals. This has been because NASA is a non-military organization. Keep in mind that Marine astronauts are counted as Navy for these numbers.</p>
<p>There is some solace for Air Force supporters in that the atronaut numbers are just about equal now and that control of space defense has slowly been shifted to all Air Force; almost all Naval space systems and satellites have been transferred over to the Air Force as the Air Force has been designated the official military agent in space (i.e. Naval Space Command has 350 people, Air Force Space Command has 37,000 people).</p>