All UVa frats on suspension

<p>CF, is that the rape from the movie The Accused? That scene is horrifying, absolutely horrifying. </p>

<p>The rape was the basis for The Accused. </p>

<p>When I said rape was a male bonding ritual, I meant it was a bonding ritual for the men who do it, not for everyone. Like a fishing trip might be a bonding ritual for men who fish, but most men don’t fish.</p>

<p>^gang rapes are indeed a “bonding ritual” for some men in specific groups (outside of that group, they may be different, too). It’s also been known as a way to “show off " to other males whom one tries to impress, especially among teens.
Another reason is that it’s a known “controlling” tactic over new recruits, in guerilla-type combat zones - putting a man under pressure to rape (or placing him as a witness to a rape) is a way to make him keep his mouth shut if he’s not proud of it. He’s implicated in the crime and speaking up then means admitting his own crime as well as his shame. He’ll thus follow along better and will be less likely to rat out some crimes committed by the gang/guerilla group(Men who are proud of their rapes tend to be the predator types and know better than to speak about their “exploits” to people who could make them stop.)
It’s also true that, as CF said, " the gang rapists don’t have a lot of interest in whether their sex toy wants what they are doing to her”. </p>

<p>Okay, I looked up the penalty for rape in Virginia (thanks google).</p>

<p>The penalty is “life in prison, or any period not less than five years.” </p>

<p>That would not include any potential added charges for the pre planning, luring the victim, drugging the victim, possession of illegal drugs, encouraging others to participate in raping the victim, providing alcohol to a minor, failure to assist the victim who was incapacitated and being raped, rape with a foreign object, and accessory to all of the other rapes. There are many potential additional charges that may be added, depending on Virginia law. </p>

<p>My point is that law enforcement and the DA have a lot of leeway and I imagine that with so many people there to interrogate, and the severity of the charges they can bring for not cooperating, they should be able to find out what really happened.</p>

<p>I agree Much2learn: if “honor” and “doing the right thing” don’t work, then fear and self preservation may well get a try.</p>

<p>I don’t know whether “Jackie”'s story is true, but consider “Kelly,” another rape victim at UVa. (Her story, [Law</a> and Justice](<a href=“http://jezebel.com/law-and-justice-arent-the-same-interview-with-a-uva-ra-1662629605]Law”>'Law and Justice Aren't the Same': Interview With a UVA Rape Survivor), has been linked here before.) Her rapist was eventually declared guilty of sexual misconduct by the UVa disciplinary system, so we can put some credence in her tale. </p>

<p>She was raped at a fraternity. Other brothers were in the room when she was being stuffed with alcohol, and other brothers knew that she had been raped because the morning after, while she was just waking up from her drunken stupor, they were joking about how her rapist likes to **** dead girls. Other brothers were guarding the stairs, and they knew what was going on because they knew to deny that the victim was upstairs to her friends looking for her. It was no secret. The rapist didn’t have to hide his crime from his brothers.</p>

<p>Much has been said about the fact that rapes also occur in dorms, but do rapes happen in this way, with many people complicit, in dorms?</p>

<p>@myos1634 If Jackie’s story, or anything remotely close to it is true, I am going to put a very low probability on any one of these young men finding the “do the right thing” argument compelling, given that no one has come forward so far. Their attorney definitely will advise them not to say anything without a deal. </p>

<p>I think they will only talk if they have a compelling interest to do so.</p>

<p>Heck, none of the people who were with Lauren Spierer the night she disappeared have done the right thing. The men lawyered up immediately; the women were either too drunk to be credible, or feel too guilty that they didn’t stop her from walking alone, barefoot, out of a bar in Bloomington. It pains me to think of her parents as they wonder why her friends still have not come forward to tell the police what they know.</p>

<p>My UVa grad, former fraternity guy is home for the holiday. He only knew one guy at the fraternity in question and he would have graduated before these allegations… He said he would have no problem disassociating himself from any organization that would do something as alleged in the RS article and cannot imagine this many guys in a house colluding to do something so terrible (and that other people would not know , 7 people in any fraternity is a good percentage of the house). Anybody that knows anything needs to come forward. Many people are confused and talking about this. He said the deans monitor things closely and respond to far less offenses than what has been alleged. The RS article has highlighted an important issue though and maybe he was lucky to find a good fraternity He is appalled to think this could have happened at his university and so am I. I am very glad this will be investigated and whoever is responsible will be held accountable. </p>

<p>We’ve got evidence of five frat members colluding to rape “Kelly” in a frat, and that one is verified. Seven is not a much bigger number than five.</p>

<p>Who is Kelly? And , of course, none of this is impossible. </p>

<p>to me, this sounds like hazing, especially with the historical reports of the same thing.</p>

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<p>this would mean that this situation happened repeatedly… every semester. And tons of people would’ve known. All the brothers, and I’m sure tons of sorority females as well. Kids outside the greek system? Perhaps not aware.</p>

<p>I really want to throw up. I cannot read this anymore. </p>

<p>[Law</a> and Justice, Kelly’s story](<a href=“http://jezebel.com/law-and-justice-arent-the-same-interview-with-a-uva-ra-1662629605]Law”>'Law and Justice Aren't the Same': Interview With a UVA Rape Survivor)</p>

<p>There’s a lot to process in that story. But one thing that I noticed was the only reason she was able to nail her rapist was because an innocent bystander saw the rapists dragging her, drunk and incapable, up the stairs of the fraternity. When he learned someone had been raped, he stepped forward.</p>

<p>Thanks, CF, And that is why bystander stuff is so important. Many colleges are emphasizing that these days.</p>

<p>Of course, this bystander is going to be vilified by “the brotherhood.” He too will be victimized. I’m sure he knows this at some level; brave kid. </p>

<p>For the frat boosters in this discussion, I have one question. Do you think a single one of the boys in the UVa frat told their parents that their frat was raping women as an initiation rite? No, I’m sure they think it was all about the community service and brotherly love. Why do you think you are any different?</p>

<p>CF belives (and sounds like she/he knows what she/he’s talking about) that gang rapists don’t think what they’re doing is “wrong.” If that’s right, then no, none of those fine, nice young men at UVA told their parents. Who confesses to harmless pranks with dumb ass drunk girls?</p>

<p>Boys don’t usually tell their mommies who they are shtuping. It is a little too Freudian. ;)</p>