<p>Amherst has banned fraternities (which had been allowed to organize informally). It will be interesting to see if their sex offenses go down .The focus has been on UVa because of the Rolling Stone article, but it is interesting to look at a much smaller school like Amherst College. They seem to have quite a few forcible sex offenses reported , given their size (Clery statistics). Not sure how many were associated with fraternities though as that is not broken out . Sex offenses and the sexual climate though seem to have contributed to the ban. <a href=“Amherst College Bans Students From Joining Fraternities | HuffPost College”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;
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<p>This sounds like an easy fix, but do you have any evidence that it will make a difference in the rate of campus sexual assaults? Will it simply move the location or change the profile of the rapist to a non-fraternity man? For example, I read that two-year colleges have a higher rate of rape than four-year colleges, but to my knowledge there are very few (if any) national fraternity chapters established at those colleges, which makes it sound like the nexus between fraternities on campus and rate of rape is weak.</p>
<p>Also, while private colleges can make their own rules, public universities like UVA cannot avoid the First Amendment, freedom of association issue. Fraternities at some campuses are wholly privately-owned and not recognized by the university yet thrive independently. If UVA’s fraternities, which I believe are already privately owned and not located on university property (?) simply choose to go “unrecognized” by the university, what is UVA’s recourse to “ban” them?</p>
<p>Bay: I don’t understand how you can have read that 2-year colleges have higher rate of rap than 4-year colleges, since they’re not residential. And it’s infinitely harder to rape someone while they’re walking from a class to another, than at a party or in a house. Do you mean that a student who exclusively enrolled at a 2 year college and did not transfer to a 4 year college had higher odds of getting raped during their life? Or off campus? Since community college students commute from home for almost all of them, and do not live on their own, I can’t imagine there are more rapes in family homes than in houses with no supervision… and in any case what happens at home can’t be the college’s responsibility. So I really don’t understand how your statement can logically make sense.</p>
<p>UVA could decide that any student enrolled in a fraternity will be expelled for breach of the code of conduct. I do believe it’d be way off base and wouldn’t solve anything.</p>
<p>Requiring adult supervision by a university-sponsored adult could help regulate behaviors without blocking freedom of association and fraternity existence. However clearly something needs to be done.</p>
<p>“UVA could decide that any student enrolled in a fraternity will be expelled for breach of the code of conduct. I do believe it’d be way off base and wouldn’t solve anything.:”</p>
<p>How can you do that, though? Isn’t there freedom of association? Can’t a college kid join any off-campus club he wants to - regardless of whether it’s the Kiwanis, the Elks, or the KKK?</p>
<p>“If UVA’s fraternities, which I believe are already privately owned and not located on university property (?) simply choose to go “unrecognized” by the university, what is UVA’s recourse to “ban” them?”</p>
<p>If these fraternities “go rogue” and exist unrecognized by the university, then the university has even LESS jurisdiction over them. </p>
<p>Here is the primary source document, MYOS1634: <a href=“Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance: National College Health Risk Behavior Survey -- United States, 1995”>Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance: National College Health Risk Behavior Survey -- United States, 1995;
<p>The survey is old (1995), but its results are still cited in recent articles, presumably because it is what exists.</p>
<p>I have found it to be difficult to get detailed statistical information about campus rape/sexual assaults. </p>
<p>Bay, two year college students have a higher rate of rape in their lifetimes than four year college students. “Percentage of college students who had ever been forced to have sexual intercourse,” the title says. Not at their college, in their lifetime. Look more closely at that graph. The two year college students are significantly more likely to have been raped as children, for example-- can’t blame that on their colleges. </p>
<p>Also, two year college students are much older than four year college students, on average. Many of them have already lived through the prime rape years of 18-24. To put it crudely, they’ve already had their rapes, whereas the 18-year-old college students haven’t been raped yet.</p>
<p>CF,
The graph breaks down the incidence that rape was experienced by age. Younger than 13, 13-18, older than 18. For two-year college students, the incidence is higher both in the 13-18 age group (some of them will be in college at 17 or 18), and the older than 18 age group.</p>
<p>I realize that it does not precisely address the question of campus rapes for college students, but it is the closest data I have seen. Do you have anything else?</p>
<p>Bay, I don’t know what you want to use that data for, but you cannot use it to decide that more students are raped on two year college campuses than four year college campuses. The information just isn’t there.</p>
<p>First of all, the data tells us nothing about the location of the rapes. </p>
<p>Secondly, two year college students are older than four year college students. Some of the two year college students will report having been raped at age 23, 24, 25, 26. But very few of the four year college students are over 22; some four year college graduates get raped at those ages, but they are not included in the sample. </p>
<p>Look at it this way: ask a group of women if they’ve been raped. Ask again ten years later. The rape rate will go up, because some unlucky women will have been raped in the intervening ten years, and none will have been un-raped. The same is true for the 26-year-old community college women versus the 20-year-old college women: more of the 26-year-olds will have been raped, because they’re older and have had more years of risk.</p>
<p>@sabaray wrote: “UVA has a number of student organizations where alcohol is readily available - it is not limited to fraternities.”</p>
<p>Really? like where? I highly doubt that. Can a kid in the photography club or thespian society buy alcohol for a First Year? Of course, but the amount of alcohol available to the entire First Year class probably is something like 90% made up of frat parties. </p>
<p>CF,
I agree that the data is lacking, but we don’t know whether the ages of those surveyed differ; you are making that assumption, while the survey may have been targeted only at 18-24 year-olds. We also don’t know about location of the rapes at two-year colleges, but we don’t know the locations at four-year colleges either, other than the generalized 60% victim’s residence-30% other residence-10% fraternity house. We don’t know whether that includes only university-owned property, and if so, maybe there are even more taking place off-property (I think I read 66% of college rapes take place off campus). We don’t even know if the rapes are perpetrated by college students at all, versus outsiders.</p>
<p>It doesn’t really matter to me if you want to discount this study. The point I was trying to make, and it still stands, is that we don’t have any information that I am aware of (are you?), that provides evidence that colleges without fraternities experience less rape than colleges with fraternities. And using the study I cited, you certainly <em>cannot</em> draw that conclusion.</p>
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<p>We know the ages of those surveyed if we read the paper. Which I did. “Students in 2-year institutions were more likely to be aged greater than or equal to 25 years (63.8%), whereas students in 4-year institutions were more likely to be aged 18-24 years (65.4%).” </p>
<p>In response to a couple of the above comments:</p>
<p>Unlike some other colleges, UVa’s fraternities are on private property and are privately owned. The Charlottesville Police have primary criminal jurisdiction, not the UVa Police.</p>
<p>In the past, the University pulled recognition of a fraternity, and the national fraternity quickly followed suit and shut them down. Apparently, where a University has a policy of recognizing fraternities, most nationals follow that policy. (I believe there are some other colleges that have a complete “hands off” policy regarding fraternities). </p>
<p>In at least one case, the national fraternity shut down a house for its own largely unexplained reasons, and the University had no disciplinary actions against that house. </p>
<p>I was told that the U. has a rule that if a fraternity is shut down, it cannot be re-established for another 3 years. </p>
<p>In one case at UVa, a national established a new very strict set of rules, and a number of the brothers of that house split off and formed their own fraternity.</p>
<p>At other colleges, when very strict rules are established on fraternities, the fraternity members turn another house into a party house. That other house is simply a rented house and is not called a fraternity house. </p>
<p>If the U. tries to crack down too severely on all fraternities regardless of their guilt, there is likely to be more underground fraternities. These fraternities will have fewer rules and will not have oversight by the IFC or other similar organizations.</p>
<p>At least one of the very serious rape incidents occurred following an event at a debating club, which is not a fraternity.</p>
<p>“Really? like where? I highly doubt that. Can a kid in the photography club or thespian society buy alcohol for a First Year? Of course, but the amount of alcohol available to the entire First Year class probably is something like 90% made up of frat parties.”</p>
<p>Did you read the story that was linked to upthread? It had to do with a student in the debate club who brought beers to a debate club meeting, and it so happened that one of them had a date-rape drug in it which he used to drug a fellow debate club member and take advantage of her. </p>
<p>@TV4caster wrote: "“Really? like where? I highly doubt that. Can a kid in the photography club or thespian society buy alcohol for a First Year? Of course, but the amount of alcohol available to the entire First Year class probably is something like 90% made up of frat parties.”</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl wrote: “Did you read the story that was linked to upthread? It had to do with a student in the debate club who brought beers to a debate club meeting, and it so happened that one of them had a date-rape drug in it which he used to drug a fellow debate club member and take advantage of her.”</p>
<p>No I didn’t but that is a moot point. I said something like that is possible (heck, it’s really a given). That doesn’t change the fact that it is MANY, MANY orders of magnitude smaller than the amount of alcohol available in the frats. </p>
<p>Bay, check out [Sexual</a> Assault on Campus: A Multilevel,
Integrative Approach to Party Rape](<a href=“U-M Web Hosting”>http://www-personal.umich.edu/~elarmstr/publications/Armstrong%20Hamilton%20and%20Sweeney%202006.pdf) You might find it somewhat woo-woo feminist, but the references might have information you like. </p>
<p>It’s not necessarily that students are buying alcohol for first years - but that there are regular social events through most clubs where alcohol is available. Most first years who join organizations/clubs meet older students who do invite them to apartment parties and other events where alcohol is present. You’re not going to know about these events unless you’re invited - they’re not an everyone is welcome to come drink cheap beer. No one is asking for an ID there. </p>
<p>I think women in these smaller organizations are almost more vulnerable than the student attending a frat party - they build what they view as “trust” relationships with men who are substantially older (in both years and experience), who supply these young women with liquor and then take advantage of this situation. Just my opinion. </p>
<p>CF,
I am familiar with that article. It is limited in scope and is a sociological analysis, not data driven. As a former college student and sorority woman, it is also not enlightening to me personally. I am well aware of the dynamics of campus college parties; I count myself among those who enjoyed them and afterwards was a regular patron of the bar party scene. Although I lived in a sorority house with about 50 other women for two years, I never heard of a single sister being raped. Obviously, it is quite possible that there were twenty of them during that time (isn’t that the statistic? Or would it be 80, based on the 38% of sorority women statistic?) but were kept secret, but one would think I’d have heard about at least one during that time.</p>
<p>CF, that is a great link in post #315. </p>
<p>White upper middle class students, wth?</p>
<p>The way women treat other women is disgusting.</p>
<p>The way some of the women who are raped are looked down on…(I would never get caught in a situation like so and so). You can see this attitude in some of the posts. :)</p>
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<p>Which ones? Please point those out, so I can notice them.</p>