<p>The story is being investigated.</p>
<p>I looked up the couple of people who said this could be a hoax after reading your post TatinG. They look like low lifes. They have no knowledge. They look scummy. </p>
<p>The crap you read. :)</p>
<p>The story is being investigated.</p>
<p>I looked up the couple of people who said this could be a hoax after reading your post TatinG. They look like low lifes. They have no knowledge. They look scummy. </p>
<p>The crap you read. :)</p>
<p>These accused guys have not yet been charged with any crimes. Therefore, there would not be a public record of any lawyers to contact.</p>
<p>Someone did post the names and home towns of that pledge class online. That can be very dangerous, because the potentially guilty get grouped in with the innocent.</p>
<p>It is journalism. It’s not police work. Or a trial. But if you think gang rape does not go on on college campuses, then you’ve just been very lucky so far in life and so have those you know … If you are even the person they would tell…</p>
<p>Which I doubt</p>
<p>I believe there is a Jackie, but that the story has changed over the years. The dean she spoke to in May after it happened said the story was much different than the story she’s telling now. I’m not saying she’s lying, just that her recall isn’t correct. I think part of that is the one part of her story that I really do not believe, and that is that she wasn’t drunk or impaired. She may have been drugged, but I don’t think she was sober. That, combined with the trauma, causes inconsistencies in her story.</p>
<p>The RS has served a purpose. My daughter’s sorority discussed the matter in detail and used it as a teaching moment and warning for members.</p>
<p>Yes Pizzagirl, there are cliques within fraternities, and there exists the possibility that these guys could act in concert. But the problem remains that the Jackie story has only one source, plus sources that have heard it from her. Apparently it would be very easy to prove or disprove much of her story, but absolutely no effort was made to do so. Women are often reluctant to report possible “date rape,” or rapes where they might not remember all of the events. But the Rolling Stone story is of a girl who was stone sober and really brutally raped. If reported promptly (assuming it happened) there would be no question whatsoever that each of the guys would have been convicted.</p>
<p>When the Duke Lacrosse scandal erupted, I told my wife that yes, it was possible, but that it had a ring of falsity about it. After about two weeks it was so obviously a hoax that I sent an email to every person in my address book pointing out why I believed it was a hoax. And yet there were idiots who actually believed these guys were guilty on the grounds that every rape claim simply must be believed.</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with asking for proof of a claim. The Rolling Stone writer did not seek one shred of evidence that Jackie’s story was true other than that she had taken to telling it a lot a year later. She claims to have tried to contact ONE of Jackie’s friends, but made no effort to do any other fact checking. Do you deny that we should demand answers to the following questions?</p>
<ol>
<li>Did Phi Psi have a registered “date” party on Friday, September 28, 2012? There will be a record. Do these parties last until 3 a.m.?</li>
<li>Was there a Phi Psi third year employed by UVA as a lifeguard in the fall of 2012.</li>
<li>Was a second-year member of Phi Psi enrolled in an anthropology course with Jackie in the fall of 2012.</li>
<li>What exactly is the story of all three of the “friends” who supposedly urged Jackie not to report the brutal and violent rape on the grounds that they might not be invited to any fraternity parties if they were known as her friend?</li>
<li>Did Jackie have substantial permanent scarring from being brutally raped for three hours on top of broken glass?</li>
<li>Did Jackie use her cell phone to call her friends on the night in question? If so, these phone records need to be examined.</li>
<li>Did Jackie receive a benefit from her claim of rape? A lot of students have trouble adjusting to college, get depressed, and spend a tremendous amount of time in bed. If they flunk out they generally have to stay out for a semester or year. Did Jackie avoid academic dismissal because of her delayed rape claim?</li>
</ol>
<p>Beyond these questions, the story as told just sounds preposterous. There isn’t a rape culture at UVA, as evidenced by the uproar this story has caused. The guy referring to Jackie as an “it” during the rape sounds like something from the Silence of the Lambs; I’ve never heard of any real person using that phrase before. I simply don’t believe three people would advice someone who had been really brutally beaten and raped not to report it. And I certainly don’t believe that any woman would refer to such a brutal, violent rape by saying, “Why didn’t you have fun with it?” Cindy asked. “A bunch of hot Phi Psi guys?”</p>
<p>It doesn’t matter whether one is talking about rape, arson, or whether the dog ate a child’s homework, if a story sounds preposterous, there is a good chance it isn’t true. If there is a benefit to telling a lie, people will lie. People accused of wrongdoing have a right to defend themselves and not be treated as automatically guilty.</p>
<p>I dare say this story is going to follow the pattern of the Duke Lacrosse case. As each item in the story is fact-checked and discredited (as it should have been before it was published) we’re going to be told it was just a memory lapse or a composite story. But that’s not what we’ve been told up front, and just as in Duke Lacrosse the story is either the truth or a hoax. I happen to think it’s a hoax.</p>
<p>If Jackie was raped by these eight guys, I want every one of them to spend most of their adult lives in jail. But if she has lied then she needs to be prosecuted if possible and certainly held civilly liable. This case seems almost legally identical to me to the Curtis Publishing v. Butts case, and as such Rolling Stone, the author, and Jackie could face some pretty massive libel damages if these charges prove false. That case put the Saturday Evening Post out of business, and if this is a hoax I’d like to see Rolling Stone closed down as well.</p>
<p>It’s not journalism with no sources. It’s one anonymous girl telling a story and a magazine printing it. Maybe, it’s advocacy literature or something and that’s fine but it’s not journalism. Ask Janet Cooke. She learned this in a very big way at WAPO when I was just a tot. No-one is saying it couldn’t happen did it is the question but with the police involved I am pretty confident that we will find out…</p>
<p>If rape culture and white privilege don’t exist, the world is a much more comfortable place for a lot of us. I understand the reasons for defending that world view. However, it’s just too depressing to read it anymore.</p>
<p>our kids will fix this… I have that faith</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2014/11/letter-advocating-for-dean-eramo”>LETTER: Advocating for Dean Eramo - The Cavalier Daily - University of Virginia's Student Newspaper;
<p>"Dear UVA Administration,</p>
<p>Of all the professors, deans, faculty and staff at the University of Virginia, Dean Nicole Eramo has made the most significant and, ultimately, the most positive impact on my life. Dean Eramo has truly saved my life. If it were not for her, I do not know if I could be alive today. When I came to Dean Eramo my first year, I was depressed and suicidal…I was barely hanging on. Dean Eramo was helpful and understanding and, above all, compassionate. She listened attentively to my story and provided me with several resources. At the time, I was scared and I felt alone and I was in no position to pursue legal or University action. Dean Eramo gave me the power to make my own decisions–something so small that made me feel like I finally had some sense of control in my life. Eventually, Dean Eramo put me in contact with Emily Renda and other members of One Less. This action alone was probably the best thing anyone has ever done for me. I can’t imagine what my life would be like now if it were not for Nicole Eramo. She has changed everything for the better. She has made me a better person. She has helped me get through the most difficult time in my life and has been with me every step of the way. I have said it before and I will say it again and again–Dean Nicole Eramo is an asset to this university. I do not want to go to the University of Virginia if she is not a resource for students in need of help in the aftermath of sexual violence. There is no one more qualified or more capable of doing this job. Dean Eramo is above and beyond the best resource the University has.</p>
<ul>
<li>Jackie, Rolling Stone Interviewee"</li>
</ul>
<p>Yep, this girl sounds like a liar and/or a fictional character. I mean, I know LOTS of girls who spend their college years in “fake therapy” for “fake rapes” – they selfishly just want to take up space in that warm, caring, support-group environment that is accessible only to those who have had horrible experiences. </p>
<p><:-P </p>
<p>I would hazard a guess that all readers or the vast majority of readers believe something awful happened to Jackie, but the nuances, the recalled comments, any embellishment by RS etc. will just have to wait for the investigation. I highly doubt UVa will sit and take it on the chin so there’s a high probability of unearthing at least some semblance of truth. </p>
<p>That letter is her defending the dean who was creamed in the article. Even Jackie has issues with the article and raising obvious questions like who, what, why, where, and when is not denying the existence of rape. jeez. But, pretending the specifics are irrelevant is also a little strange. And, no-one is calling her a liar I don’t think. It’s more about the reporter and the publication for me anyway.</p>
<p>People are calling Jackie a liar. </p>
<p>Socalmom23, thanks for the link.</p>
<p>Well, that’s wrong if it’s true. Here’s the thing, the way the article is written you really can’t even tell what Jackie actually claims and what the reporter just states as fact with no attribution at all. But, most people are stupid and don’t get this.</p>
<p>wow - like shooting fish in a barrel but I’m not going to respond.</p>
<p>Lately on these threads the responses are illuminating. And very very sad, at least to me.</p>
<p>Socalmom23, I certainly haven’t suggested that “Jackie” is a fictional character. She is real. I believe her story is false, and the good news is that it can be fact-checked very, very easily.</p>
<p>momofthreeboys, I happen to be one of those who doesn’t believe Jackie at all. And I refuse to go down the path of finding lie after lie and then concluding that something terrible must have happened. The story is either true or it is a hoax and we need to find out, but we always need to be aware that people lie all the time for their own reasons.</p>
<p>As I pointed out in an earlier post, false claims of long-ago rape can be used by a student who is facing possible academic dismissal. Three percent of women (vs. one percent of men) suffer from borderline personality disorder. 4.8 percent of women (vs. 7.7 percent of men) have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. There is a 25 percent overlap, so 5.85 percent of all women have one or both. Munchausen Syndrome is a separate disorder (which has been linked to false rape reports), as is Histrionic Personality Disorder, both with a relatively low incidence and strong overlap with the first two disorders. At any rate, I think it is reasonable to conclude that roughly six to seven percent of females suffer from mental disorders that would make it highly likely that they might both report a false rape and receive a mental reward from victim status.</p>
<p>Please note that men suffer from these disorders as well. The important thing is to understand that people in general lie a lot about a lot of things. We shouldn’t immediately believe stories that don’t sound like the truth without adequate evidence.</p>
<p>Well… I understand. There is an ongoing investigation that just started.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s obvious to me that the reporter is presenting the story as Jackie relates it. The reporter doesn’t put “Jackie claims” or “Jackie says” at the beginning of every sentence because that would be jarring and annoying to the reader, who understands that the reporter is retelling Jackie’s story.</p>
<p>At this point I think Jackie has to cooperate with the police investigation. She can’t accuse a group of people of such a heinous crime and then say she doesn’t want to come forward and press charges. Even at this late date there may be some physical evidence that could substantiate the claim. The dress she wore, bits of broken glass stuck in the wood or carpet on the floor, fibers, etc. Witnesses who were not perpetrators could come forward. There could be photos of people in the frat house that night. </p>
<p>I think you give the average reader too much credit, but regardless there are rules if you want to call her a reporter. Maybe, we can just call her a writer. I’m fine with that although I find her style a little obvious and amateurish like chick lit. But, it’s not going to make it as journalism. That has nothing to do with the substance or truth or embellished truth or whatever since that’s easy enough to confirm if the police are investigating.</p>