<p>We need to separate out the fear the girls had of reprisal from the student community and the way things should have happened. Eramo was a listener and I believe genuinely cared about these girls. That said, she didn’t “make” the UVA policy. She just carried it out. That she could stay there and be an emotional support for these girls while maintaining what was a long standing UVA policy is not as complicated, or that much about her as we want it to be.</p>
<p>Given that there seems to have been nothing Eramo could have done about this policy, she probably was incredibly supportive, and she probably would be incredibly supportive in a situation with better policy.</p>
<p>The girls who wanted no punishment were truamatized. They were afraid of retaliation. We’ve seen in other stories the horrible retaliation girls have faced on college campuses when they’ve exposed socially popular rapists. These girls aren’t stupid, just rape survivors.</p>
<p>When the community, and the wider culture, begins to support punishment for rapists and healing for survivors, the desire to pursue these cases will grow exponentially. That said, the growing awareness of these stories is growing the public appetite for prosecution, and this is good.</p>
<p>If your campus culture supports rape, I’m pretty sure you think twice about outing a rapist. This is why these young women are so brave and we need to support them any way we can.</p>
<p>You make a great point about the fear of reprisal, both from the attacker and from others (such as the frat brothers). But as to the Dean, it really depends on whether her overall approach was to encourage the girls that had evidence to move forward and punish these boys or to discourage them. In some cases, there just may not have been any evidence that the girl presented that could be used to convict, so it may have made sense not to pursue the case. However, I think the Dean was part of the UVA policy team on this issue and could have pushed to have boys expelled or given other severe punishments so not sure I would let her off that hook. Not clear that all the girls that spoke to her were too traumatized or afraid of their attackers as it appears they were part of the process of whatever lesser punishment was issued. In some cases, the girls may thought that what happened crossed the line, but did not warrant a huge punishment. I honestly could believe some girls feel this way, whether it is justified or not. I agree that there needs to be a cultural shift to take these cases much more seriously. </p>
<p>Of course we’re outraged about the story of Jackie’s rape and some of us question the details. But I am just as outraged by this policy of letting admitted rapists stay on campus if they were “sorry.” Why do rapists who say “I’m sorry” get to stay but plagiarists and cheaters don’t? When did society decide that rape is “less serious” than buying a paper on-line or cheating on an exam?</p>
<p>Just look at how the woman who accused Jameis Winston of rape is being treated and you can sure understand why woman on campus are reluctant to come forward and why Jackie does not want to name her attackers.</p>
<p>Sure, but if the victim does not want to participate it’s alittle difficult to create a procedure that doesn’t infringe on anyone’s civil rights, either those of the accuser who doesn’t want to participate and just wants some confidential surrounding to talk about things or those accused. That is the crux of the problem. If women do not want to participate in the process there is nothing, at this point, without mandatory reporting that creates an environment where a college or university can accuse someone of something. There is no “duty to warn” that I’m aware of in the college/university setting with these Title IX coordinators or advocates. After the Virginia Tech shooting some of this was discussed in depth. There’s another thread going about what colleges and universities can and can’t do in light of mental illness. Many women do not want to do ANYTHING except receive counseling. It’s fine to march and protest etc., but until they are willing to participate in the process or actually change the process it will be a slow road. Awareness is one thing. Action is another and it will take both students and administrators and local law enforcement to change the system in a legal meaningful manner. </p>
<p>We blame young women for putting themselves in situations where they are raped because they just should have known better and been more careful. And then we blame them for their response. I am about ready to shift all this blame in a more appropriate direction.</p>
<p>This morning I woke up with the need to create one of those gratitude lists. I am grateful for all the wonderful men in my real life. I am grateful for dstark and shawbridge posting on this thread. Thank you.</p>
<p>“To me, the truth of Jackie’s story is incidental.” Would you feel the same if it were your school or one of your kid’s schools that was being singled out for what has become a hot issue on a national level, across many campuses?</p>
<p>Yes, because “we’re no rapier than any other college, is not a defense.” This CYA and put University PR first attitude is shameful at my school too. I hope more schools are exposed, and if mine is doing it, or my kid’s school is doing it, the sooner it is exposed and dealt with, the better.</p>
<p>It the long run, I think that the sooner a school addresses this the better off they will be. Many other colleges will follow this one if they don’t change and UVA has a chance to lead the change and make this a positive. </p>
<p>“Yeah, I can’t ever get behind the truth is incidental. No matter what, that strikes me as very strange approach.”</p>
<p>I am not saying that the truth does not matter. I am saying that this has been an issue for a long time, and the truth is that campus rape is a significant problem, and a national problem. It is the nature of this particular crime that the specific truth about any individual incident is often unclear. However, it is not one individual incident that particularly concerns me. It is the broader truth that this happens every week somewhere, that the criminals know that can act with impunity, and that nothing is being done that I am concerned about. What matters is the truth in aggregate. </p>
<p>You can see that when Jackie came forward many others did too. When one woman came forward about Bill Cosby many others did too. As with any other crime, there may be a percentage of these victims who are lying. Typically the percentage is relatively small, but it does happen. However, one person lying in no way means that the others are lying too. The truth is that this issue is a problem, and being able to point at an individual case that was not true is not a reason to deny that a problem exists. </p>
<p>I know that there are many who would like to disprove this story and go back to pretending that there is no problem. That is the wrong approach. That is why 100 Universities are under federal investigation. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away. Until rapists and potential rapists are convinced that there is a significant chance that they will be caught and punished if they rape someone, this behavior will continue. </p>
<p>My approach only strikes people as a strange approach who are just becoming aware of this problem. To them this is a new problem and the issue is this one case. In my mind it is an old problem and there are thousands of cases. That is the difference.</p>
<p>Let’s say I’m a principal of an elementary school. A child comes to me and tells me he’s being abused by his step dad. I don’t have the luxury of asking, “how will you feel about testifying? are you going to feel vulnerable living at home after having outed this man as an abuser? is there actual medical evidence of what you are alleging?”</p>
<p>I’m a mandatory reporter. I report. Determining whether there is credible evidence, whether the kid is going to be able to testify, whether a crime has been committed, whether the chain of custody exists on whatever physical evidence gets collected, someone’s Miranda rights- these are not my problems. I am a principal of an elementary school and I am obligated to report. It’s someone else’s obligation to know the law, follow the law, determine if a crime has been committed, etc.</p>
<p>This is what bugs me about UVA. A bunch of Dean’s and Administrators (caring and loving though they may be) take it upon themselves to act as police, judge, jury, court stenographer, psychiatric social worker, etc. They don’t have the training or the resources or the knowledge or the standing (legal or medical) to investigate. Their job is to report and let law enforcement and the medical establishment take it from there.</p>
<p>But, they’re not mandatory reporters and the students are so-called adults so that could be changed but I don’t think everyone is on board with that plan either. Many, many girls are simultaneously demanding the right to choose whether to bring in law enforcement which I do think I would have to agree is their right so It’s a difficult problem.</p>
<p>We don’t allow children or elders a choice in whether their abuse is reported when it comes to official notice. Why do we treat rape differently?</p>
<p>I had the impression that the experts on this thread were not in favor of mandatory reporting, because it may discourage rape victims from getting help.</p>
<p>It also really bothers me that some people are claiming Jackie’s story is a hoax and that people are overreacting to the article. </p>
<p>Even if Jackie’s story is a complete fabrication, the RS article would still shows that UVA has a serious problem. </p>
<p>Emily’s story, and Liz’s story, and the facts about expulsions (or lack thereof), and so many others show that there are serious systemic problems that need to be addressed. </p>
<p>Interesting - could we make college administrators and staff, even down to RAs and professors, mandatory reporters?</p>
<p>We joked with my daughter and my other kids about giving “beatin’s” and she mentioned something at school, and they called DYFS on us. The guy was laughing as he talked to me, it was so clear my children were not being beaten. Yet they sent my kids to the nurse without my or my spouse’s consent and they were told to take off their shirts and be checked for bruises.</p>
<p>This smacks of religious organizations and others deciding that “our” laws are not what they have to follow, yet in the cases of religious organizations and colleges, they both take government funding no problem!</p>
<p>Also, reporting bullying and filing reports is not consistent yet in schools, though it is mandated. </p>
<p>Many adults and supposed expert opinion writers in the media don’t seem to understand a basic fact of life among college students - you don’t rat out each other. If you do - particularly if its a popular student - your life will be made miserable. Situation that happened to my kid freshman year. He had 2 roommates one of whom was doing major drugs and had a constant parade of woman staying over. My kid spent half the semester sleeping in the hallway. The other roommates mother finds out whats going on, calls the school and the druggy kids in big trouble. The son’s life of the mother that called was a living hell for the next 2 years. </p>