<p>I find it highly unlikely that the RS story is a hoax, because I think UVA would be reacting quite differently to it if it were. I think the University is well aware that the story is true, at least in significant respects, which is why it is acting as it is. If they weren’t sure if it were true or not, they’d simply say they were investigating, but that isn’t what they’ve done.</p>
<p>I know that at some universities, women with sexual assault complaints are presented with several options of how they can proceed–they can report the assault to the police, they can make a formal complaint (which could lead to expulsion or other serious results), or they can make an informal complaint, which is essentially an arbitration which will not lead to expulsion, etc., but which can lead to apologies, agreements to keep away, etc. I think what we are struggling with now is the extent to which women should have these options. I don’t find that to be an easy question to answer. (Note: I used “women” above, but men make these kinds of complaints as well.)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>In most cases, mandatory reporting laws are aimed towards minors. One exception may be when police come across physical spousal abuse, where they can file charges even if the victim does not cooperate.</p></li>
<li><p>When investigators are faced with a victim who comes forward many months or years after the crime occurred, they try to find out if the victim described the crime to close friends soon after the attack, or if those friends noticed major changes in personality or injuries after the date of the crime. The victim said she talked to 3 students an hour after the crime. I’d like to see extensive follow-up on that matter with her friends. There is now an active criminal investigation by the Charlottesville Police (who have jurisdiction because the fraternity is off-campus).</p></li>
<li><p>A college or university is mandated by federal law to become involved in these matters. They cannot just pass if off to the police, even if the college thinks they don’t have the expertise to deal with it.</p></li>
<li><p>We need to wait for the facts. However, I am willing to bet that when the facts come out, many fewer students will have turned out to have been involved than is alleged in the RS article. That is not to minimize the seriousness of the problem, but to put it into perspective. Nationwide studies regularly show that a relatively few predators are each responsible for multiple sexual assaults on campuses.</p></li>
<li><p>I believe an early statement from UVa administration said that the University staff were not told everything by the victim that was told to the RS writer.</p></li>
<li><p>Some students who know what really happened are apparently keeping quiet because of fear of self-incrimination or guilt. Anyone who is guilty has hired an attorney, who has told them to not to say anything. I would also assume that the University staff who know the facts have been told to keep their mouth shut as far as public comments and leaks. Our best hope of getting to the truth is through the Police investigation. “The closer you get to the courthouse door, the closer you get to the truth.”</p></li>
</ol>
<p>The mandatory reporting requirement takes away womens’ options; it “infantilizes” them in the words of some. The reason it is done for children and seniors is because they do not have the same capacity as competent (in the legal sense) adults to advocate for themselves.</p>
<p>The Daily Progress, the Charlottesville newspaper has sent a FOIA request to the university for records relating to the RS story (what exactly is a little unclear from the article). </p>
<p>I have searched and can not find any reporting on what the Charlottesville police investigation has turned up. </p>
<p>It seems to me, and this is something I’m just starting to work out for myself, that treating rape differently has something to do with the shaming which has been almost inevitable. When brave women refuse to be silenced or shamed after rape, maybe all that changes. I don’t know. I want to shift the blame. I want to shift the shaming. I don’t want women to be embarrassed to report. They aren’t at fault. Those that are willing to be so vocal are taking up a cause they never sought out. I am grateful to them. I certainly can’t fault or blame those who don’t come forward. I can’t imagine that sort of bravery myself.</p>
<p>adding: and I am more than willing to be corrected and instructed by experts in this matter. I am an expert in exactly nothing.</p>
<p>Re FOIA - They want to find out exactly what Jackie told the school because the school has stated that it was not what was written in the article.</p>
<p>It is a terrible conundrum for these women. But the way it is handled by the legal system now really is no different from other crimes. If the crime victim does not come forward and will not testify against the perpetrator and there are no other witnesses, there is no case. It is the same for pretty much every crime (involving adults).</p>
<p>Dstark posted what happens when women who have been raped go to the police. My take away was that the default position was that they were lying. I don’t think that is the default position in most other cases when a crime is reported. Again, I’m no expert. When my wallet was stolen, the police behaved as though they believed me, even though I had no witnesses. </p>
<p>adding: I’m not advocating any young woman take action not in her own best interest. I am advocating changing the culture so that reporting is in her best interest.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how the rape shield laws will apply to the FOIA request.</p>
<p>It should be interesting to see.</p>
<p>I think we may be close to reaching a tipping point where women no longer feel as afraid to report rapes in terms of reprisals by the larger student body. However, I would like to remind everyone that even those not in college, when confronted by a mobster mentality, will be afraid to testify. In many ways, the way that college campuses have worked in terms of rape victims is not much different than how things work with street gangs and mobsters. </p>
<p>You have to offer protection to the witnesses in cases like these, and I don’t really think we have figured this out yet. </p>
<p>best case, public opinion stops blaming the victim and starts to understand that a girl who has been raped is a victim of a horrible crime. I’m assuming it will go more slowly, the way civil rights always accrue, until more people support a woman’s right to control who has access to her body. We will get there. years ago, there were no men in the take back the night marches. Now, they are there, front and center.</p>
<p>Also, seconding Ahls point of being grateful so many men really do understand the truth. </p>
<p>“Re FOIA - They want to find out exactly what Jackie told the school because the school has stated that it was not what was written in the article.”</p>
<p>In my opinion, the school refused to allow the author of the article many of the interviews she requested, then claimed ignorance of what was written. They did not want to know details because knowing more implies responsibility. The goal was to know as few details as possible and keep things quiet until the article was published so they could claim ignorance. That is why the most common response that President Sullivan gave in her interview was, “I don’t know.” She did not want to know.</p>
<p>I think there are things colleges can do to deal with this while understanding that kids are not going to want to press charges.
If it is known that particular fraternities are a problem you close them down. Im sorry a college doesn’t need to afford a fraternity the right to due process.
Paid adult presence at places where college students live with that adult responsible for maintaining reasonable order
Require students live on campus for 2,3 years
Encourage outside police to maintain order/police off campus housing where problems are known to exist</p>
<p>When we had a burglary because we stupidly left our doors unlocked, the police were polite and appeared to believe our story. Although they told us that we shouldn’t have left the doors unlocked, they didn’t shame us. And our story was as uncorroborated as a rape victim’s-- my purse, an iPold, some jewelry were stolen, but how would the police know I hadn’t just sold them or given them away, or never had them in the first place?</p>
<p>That’s not the experience rape victims report.</p>
<p>while this thread is about fraternities at UVA, I would just like to say that rapes on college campuses happen all over campus, including in dorms. The most dangerous time for a girl on a college campus is the first semester freshman year up until thanksgiving, or if she is a transfer, that same period of time for her. This tells us the predatory nature of these criminals, and also that there is a learning curve involved in terms of figuring out which strangers can and can not be trusted, as well as the fact that these boys ARE strangers.</p>
<p>Living on campus provides absolutely NO protection against rape unless the school makes a concerted effort to remove the rapists. Just as an aside.</p>
<p>Shame is a feeling. Police can’t make you feel one way or the other. That just happens. You could have felt stupid about leaving the door unlocked but rape is a more sensitive issue. That’s the shame problem. </p>
<p>shame isn’t the problem. Fear of reprisal is the problem. The lack of actual support is the problem, and the way police have traditionally “investigated” rape claims is the problem. </p>
<p>People who have been mugged report horrible feelings of violation and shame. You don’t know what you are talking about. Crime victims all feel shame.</p>
<p>The mandatory reporting regime is also a mixed blessing, and the product of one particular “silver bullet” fad that got legislative traction. It probably does more good than harm, net, but not necessarily by a whole lot.</p>
<p>People love love love simple, sloganistic solutions. Give it to the police! Mandatory reporting to the police! (Note that child abuse mandatory reporting is to social workers, not police officers.) Meanwhile the police and prosecutors are demonstrably terrible at dealing with acquaintance rape, and are essentially required to apply a beyond-reasonable-doubt standard that absolutely favors the accused over the victim…</p>
<p>At the same time, it’s hard to fathom how the UVa Honor Code has never been understood to forbid coerced or non-consensual sex with other students. I get that plagiarism is a particularly academic offense, but there’s a significant academic component to terrorizing your classmates and making it difficult for them to have access to education, too. It’s just nuts that people can be expelled for improper citation form or inappropriate paraphrase, but apparently not for raping a woman and taunting her about it afterwards.</p>
<p>Also, re the Duke lacrosse team: They were innocent of rape, as was apparent fairly quickly. They were guilty of dozens, scores, maybe hundreds of other gross offenses, if not against the law (but many were) then against good taste and proper decorum. Which is why it was so easy for many to believe they were guilty of rape, too – why not? There’s a similar thing here: it’s not that the truth or falsehood of the “Jackie” story is completely irrelevant. It’s more that, as awful as it is, lots of people regard it as plausible because it’s consistent with behaviors and attitudes they know to be true.</p>
<p>To me, this is just part of the strategy to keep women quiet. Putting all of the responsibly for what happens next on their shoulders. Telling her about all of the harm she could do the the college, the boy involved, and herself, and then asking her if she is really, really sure that she wants to do this. </p>
<p>I can think of no other crime where a victim is treated in this way, and in the name of “treating them like an adult” and not “infantilizing them.” People who do this to victims, however well intended they may be, are walking very close to becoming an accessory to a felony. That behavior needs to end.</p>
<p>Victims should be told that coming forward and telling the truth honestly will always be helpful to the University, to their classmates and alumni, that she will be supported for coming forward and being honest, and honesty will help make the University a better place for everyone.</p>
<p>You were lucky, CF. When my aunt reported the theft from her home of thousands of dollars worth of art and jewelry, the LAPD told her to call her insurance company. They didn’t have time to investigate such incidents. And she even had a suspect, but they didn’t care.</p>