<p>Alcohol is the main problem. It is a joke to allow alcohol freely on campus. To be honest, I’ll mention it again - no frat on campus unless they are alcohol-free. Why do people not see the very strong link?</p>
<p>This happened locally, at a dorm <em>after</em> the woman attended a frat party, NOT at a frat.</p>
<p>“Honestly, it seems like people on CC want schools to get rid of fraternities, sororities, athletics, marching bands, any group at any school that doesn’t allow everyone to join.”</p>
<p>Just to be clear, this suspension is over involvement in criminal activity. It is not for failure to be adequately diverse.</p>
<p>I do not think that computer theft and North Face jackets are the same as rape.</p>
<p>Okay…so the person in charge of this issue was given the job a couple of years out of college because she had some experience volunteering for a domestic abuse hotline. And the fact that we “…don’t expel in every case of sexual assault”–after admitting it has NEVER happened–doesn’t mean that the university views sexual assault as less wrong than cheating because after all, expelling people for cheating “…is controversial.” And, she thinks the male student who admits that he sexually assaulted someone is demonstrating “remorse” which should be taken into account and is a reason not to expel him. </p>
<p>Twoin- I gather from your comment that you don’t know anyone who admits to having been raped. Good for you. It’s lovely to live in a nice bubble where having your parka stolen and being forced to have intercourse with someone you don’t know or don’t want to have on top of you/inside of you/exposing you to an STD are exactly the same thing.</p>
<p>Really that Jezebel article is beyond belief. So this is the woman who is in charge of processing all sexual assault cases at UVA? Protecting the boys who admit to sexual assault of women and not expelling them because their participating in the informal process shows they have learned their lesson??? WHAT??? Really this is too ridiculous to even fathom. These predators should be expelled and then be down on their hands and knees hoping these women do not press charges and throw them in jail. Instead they just get a free pass from Dean Eramo. Sorry this woman is a disgrace. What a traitor.</p>
<p>I am not sure what women can expect if women like this are in charge. All the more reason to bypass the college and go straight to the police. </p>
<p>The administrators in question should not only get fired but also face serious legal scrutiny. Knowing of crime and taking actions towards covering it up is a crime itself. I wonder how these people can sleep at night and be at peace with themselves … </p>
<p>Additionally, simply expelling a campus rapist is not a sufficient response. Such disturbed criminals should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Look at what happened with Jesse Matthew who is the suspect in custody for the murder of Hannah Graham (UVA) with potential connections to a number of other sexual assault and murder cases. </p>
<p>He was expelled from two colleges back in the day and yet he was allowed to continue on with his horrendous actions for so many years. I’d like to think that if the initial complaint against him in 2002 was handled differently Hannah Graham and Morgan Harrington could have been alive today.</p>
<p>How many innocent lives have to be taken or destroyed before a sexual predator is apprehended and put behind bars?</p>
<p>When UVa determines that a student has committed a sexual assault, they use a preponderance of the evidence standard. So, says Eramo, the student might not be guilty and we shouldn’t expel them.</p>
<p>Sometimes students admit they committed the assault. But, says Eramo, if they admit the assault they are remorseful and we shouldn’t expel them.</p>
<p>As a result, not one student gets suspended for assault, whether they admit the assault or not, no matter how strong the evidence against them is. </p>
<p>Funnily enough, students who cheat can get expelled, no matter how remorseful they are. But rapists? Nah.</p>
<p>Not sure what that has to do with frats, but universities are in the business of educating and I would hazard a guess that most employees with the exception perhaps of the food service people wear that “education hat” and mentality. Interestingly I believe the sororities at UVa are dry. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but if that’s true I find it interesting because it makes goes to the frats even more enticing for women…again alcohol…but then very few people who post will say that alcohol doesn’t have alot to do with the problem. So someone correct me if the sororities at UVa are NOT dry. </p>
<p>Count me as one of those cc people who want to get rid of that grand old college tradition of gang raping a freshman co-Ed as an initiation rite into a fraternity. </p>
<p>^^There are many colleges with little to no fraternities and sororities. I went to one. I’m sure someone has posted a list somewhere on the forums as you may have discovered there are some very anti-frat and anti-sorority members. There are also some very good service and academic fraternities especially at the big unis but they don’t fit the stereotype and don’t get much play here on forums. </p>
<p>Yes, it is very informative. However, I must admit that they too are guilty at cherrypicking embarassing stories to make all fraternities look bad while neglecting to tell the success stories. For instance, they begin with the colorful anecdote about an exploding butt rocket that sent an unfortunate frat member to the emergency room. What about the scores of fraternity butt astronauts who successfully reached orbit?</p>
<p>Did we shut down the NASA program after the Challenger accident? NO. </p>
<p>To retain their honor and purpose, fraternities urgently need to address the criminal behavior of some of their members. I completely agree with @poetgrl in all of her remarks. Part of the problem is institution-specific culture. My DH went to UVa in the 80s and was not in a fraternity. He despised them. When we met, I was surprised by his dislike because of my own experience.</p>
<p>I am not anti-fraternity. My father was very involved in his fraternity at a large midwestern flagship and it was a positive element in his adult life; his fraternity raised a significant amount of money to erect the campanile in honor of WWII vets. In college, I was a rush hostess for a fraternity (I was at a women’s college, but then-boyfriend was a house officer), and it was an interesting experience, and not at all negative. Not all fraternities are all bad, corrupt, and providing cover for illegal and immoral behavior. </p>
<p>But our culture has changed and coarsened; the heavy in-house drinking (encouraged by the stupid 21 drinking age) and hook-up scene combine to create a very toxic set of circumstances for young adults today. I do think that the current social structures and norms allow predators to hide and flourish. The good men need to take a stand. </p>
<p>UVA is a public, state university. I don’t think UVA should be allowed to have fraternities and sororities because they exclude people based on race, gender, and physical appearance. If someone wants the Greek experience, they can go to a private institution.</p>
<p>I think the potential investigation has exceeded the capabilities of the small City of Charlottesville police department. Many suspects have probably graduated and moved. Will the local police travel to interview many witnesses or suspects? Little physical evidence exists. I think the FBI should be tapped to investigate the rapes as civil rights violations. And perhaps the fraternity in question is a continuing criminal enterprise. Under those penalties I believe the assets of the fraternity can be seized.</p>
<p>I would support a bill in the VA General Assembly to make all staff at public universities mandatory reporters. It should be the law that ALL possible felonies are investigated by real police departments that are independent from the university. That the university signs the paychecks of its own department creates a conflict of interest. </p>
<p>All national sororities are dry. Of course an individual house (or girl) could violate that rule and have a party with alcohol, but by national Panhellenic rule they are all dry. Sometimes they will have a party out of the house, but not in their (sorority or university owned) houses.</p>
<p>I do know people who have been raped. It is serious. I know several people who were date raped in the dorms or apartments near my school, but none from the fraternities. I do not think the schools should handle rapes or attacks at all, even if it happens in the dorm. Once it is a felony, local law enforcement should be called in. It should be a matter for law enforcement, prosecuted as a felony. The school will not have to have a disciplinary hearing as to whether to expel the student as the student will be in jail if guilty.</p>
<p>"For instance, they begin with the colorful anecdote about an exploding butt rocket that sent an unfortunate frat member to the emergency room. "</p>
<p>And if you read the article, the butt-rocket kid wasn’t a member of a frat. He just happened to do his stupid stunt while on a frat porch. </p>
<p>@momofthreeboys, sororities at UVA are dry. However, most srats have a satellite location that serves as a party location - for “pregaming” - which interestingly doesn’t usually include men. It is no secret that UVA is a hard drinking campus. </p>
<p>That’s interesting because I have always associated fraternity/sorority life with giant public state flagships, not private schools. The Greek system creates a community within a large, amorphous mass. Private schools are self-selecting and already have a built-in sense of identity that would seem to preclude the need for fraternities or sororities.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I agree with the idea that professors should be mandatory reporters in the same sense as, say, second-grade teachers. For one thing, college students are legally adults. For another, college professors see their students twice a week for 15 weeks in a class ranging from 15 to 150. How much can they be expected to notice?</p>