<p>Actually, I thought you said it pretty well. </p>
<p>My son took a full-time job right after school was out, which was great, but of course that meant we hardly saw him at all. The summer flew by. The whole year flew by, actually. It all goes so fast.</p>
<p>
Well, I think that all of us good-for-nothing layabouts should log off of CC and go do something productive to save the world. Of course, with almost 4000 posts, CGM, can you say that you've been using your time productively?</p>
<p>I read a few posts then skipped to the last page to give my own opinion. Let your son enjoy the last of his childhood, I caught some "school is his job" attitudes, with which I totally agree- there will be plenty of time to work for money, it won't hurt him to never do the junky jobs he can get at this age but he will never have a chance to enjoy the HS activities again. Like my husband keeps telling me, "just because you did/had to doesn't mean our son...". I wish I hadn't needed to work in college, I could have done so many other things with my time that I can't replace. Value his academic achievements and stop expecting him to do EVERYTHING possible. It is impossible to do everything, he has done things most kids can't. Also, even gifted kids need some down time, totally unstructured, seemingly useless time to recharge their batteries, don't deny him this. His strong antiwork attitude suggests adding the extra burden any job adds to his already complex life might tip the balance he has so far achieved in his life. Don't mess with success.</p>
<p>ust so that he would not "hang out" - that is exactly "treating him as a 8
yo".</p>
<p>no s**T </p>
<p>hanging out is under appreciated</p>
<p>this boy needs time to stop and think- not more assignments</p>
<p>let him be to do what? hang out most of the time?</p>
<p>**My S is an incredibly good student....</p>
<h1>3 in his class with a GPA well above a 4.0,</h1>
<p>great ECs,
Captain of his sports team,
very social and very much of a leader in his class
AND he has never touched alcohol or any other illegal substance.**</p>
<p>oh, let him sit and do nothing with his freetime, poor baby needs to chill for hours and hours a day</p>
<p>Are we even talking about the same kid?
Above a 4.00 GPA- captain of sports team- great EC- leader in class- I don't see where he has hours and hours of free time a week, let along a day/</p>
<p>and sometimes parents are gosh the BOSS and can give instruction and tell kids what to do</p>
<p>Actually- if parents still expect to dictate to a 17 year old, how to spend what little free time he has and haven't given him guidance how to make that decision for himself by that time, I would consider them pretty poor parents.
Our job as parents, is to guide our children to learn to make their own decisions. If we haven't given them that opportunity, with progressively more important decisions, we aren't giving them the skills they will need as adults.</p>
<p>To arbitrarily decide, that when we say "jump" they better ask " how high", breeds precisely the sort of kids who either quash whatever independence they have, in fear that they may do something that their parents don't approve of ( and are ripe pickings for other dominant personalities), or builds their determination to put miles between them and the ones- who treated them like a piece of property to control, not a human being</p>
<p>*pretty lame parents here</p>
<p>oh, let him sit and do nothing with his freetime, poor baby needs to chill for hours and hours a day</p>
<p>ahhhh*</p>
<p>He sounds like an intelligent young man, with a good work ethic, I understand his parents are concerned, particulary if they have "friends" like you CGM, but I think he has a good perspective for this time in his life.</p>
<p>Wait until the summer! I know I am 18 and in no position to tell parents what to do, but my parents would never let me work during the school year, even if I wanted to, because the first priority was school + ECs. I had summer jobs the last 2 summers in high school (1 internship) and I made a decent amount of money. I dont work in college either, but I take 21 credits and have basically no time. Basically, if your kid is taking a demanding courseload like he probably is, definitely do not make him work over the school year.</p>
<p>Wow, you can really see a difference in values in this thread! I have always told my children that they have a full time job -- being a student. I expect them to devote time to that, and to excel at it accordingly. As a result, my son is a senior and has not had a job while attending school. On the other hand, for most of the time he was in high school, he had school from 8 AM until 4 PM, then courses at a local community college during the evening, homework, and the volunteering and coursework he did, as well as helping out around the house with meals, tidying, his laundry. If he had a part time job, he would have had <em>no</em> time to relax, which I think is terrible for teens. There's so much pressure on them these days. As it is, he's finishing with nearly a 4.0 unweighted, and has taught himself Latin, among other things.</p>
<p>Now after school is over, I expect him to work this summer, largely because whatever college he attends will expect him to contribute an amount from earnings, even though he has an EFC of 0. Also, in reading more of the responses, I see I have different expectations of my children's career choices. One poster writes that his kids will be able to get "any management job" because they have worked their way up to management while in high school. My son plans to be a psychotherapist or clinical psychologist. To that end, he volunteers as a peer crisis counsellor at a non-profit. It's in his field, but since they're a non-profit, they certainly can't afford to pay him. Would working at Starbucks have more "career value" to him? No, not really. </p>
<p>And finally, we <em>are</em> the "disadvantaged" that other people want to have their kids exposed to, so I don't worry about that, at all.</p>
<p>
[quote]
since they're a non-profit, they certainly can't afford to pay him.
[/quote]
My son has worked for non-profits for the past 3 years and always been paid, and relatively well at that. "Non profit" doesn't mean that everybody there is a volunteer; it just means that employees cannot expect an excess over their salaries (such as a stock options or a profit-sharing plan). </p>
<p>I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with volunteering; just that many nonprofits have paid positions available as well.</p>
<p>Let me be more clear. He took an unpaid position as a peer counselor at an agency that has only two paid employees, both of whom are "Americorps" students, I think. The paid positions get reassigned to new incoming Americorps students, as far as we can tell, because the program was taken over by the new "incoming" assigned people this past fall.</p>
<p>TrinSF, you write "Wow, I can really see the difference in values in this thread. " and then "I see I have different expectations of my children's career choices. One poster writes that his kids will be able to get "any management job" because they have worked their way up to management while in high school". </p>
<p>While not specifically stated, this seemingly implies that those of us who have high school students who work during school do not value their childrens' education as highly as those who choose for their children to not work. This seems to be a broad judgement. </p>
<p>In your statement about expectation of career choices, it sounds as if you believe your S's career choice to be loftier than those who might choose to work in "management". Management runs the world. Of course they aren't learning pyschotherapy at Starbuck's but there are many other important life lessons to be learned there as well as those that can be learned through volunteerism. A lot of kids don't have their career choice so narrowed down in high school. All don't have internship opportunities "in their chosen field" because they are not sure what their field is yet. . Working a part-time job can offer some valuable insights regarding their future. It doesn't have to be rocket science to be a learning experience. The OP was asking if it was unreasonable to expect her S (who seems to have plenty of free time) to get a job. It's not really a value statement.</p>
<p>My S has worked in a gro. store for 3 years. He doesn't plan to make it his career but the experience has been very beneficial to him.
He will commission as an Officer in the United States Navy in two years. But then I guess that's just another "management" job.</p>
<p>I run a small retail shop. I generally have 3-4 teenagers on the payroll at any one time. I love the teens -- and the really bright college bound ones bring so much to our organization. </p>
<p>I've found that the best way to work with teenagers -- in our demographic which is NYC upper income suburbs -- is to ask for one afternoon (3-6 pm) and one weekend day (9-6) until they can demonstrate that they can hold this job and do it well. Then we add an afternoon. </p>
<p>I look for kids who will view my shop as a "first career spot" -- such as the girl who is now at Syracuse, wants to be a buyer for a retail chain, and is majoring in business. She learned all sorts of things working for me -- aside from how to sell our products and run the cash register. Important things like inventory and merchandising and customer service. </p>
<p>Another one of my 'alumni' is at Cornell studying bio/animal science and wants to be an avian vet. She was able to work with a wide variety of domestic birds and other animals. She learned hand feeding and socializing. She learned about talking to customers about birds and other pets. </p>
<p>I think the working for teens is important -- and it's not necessarily 'burgers at McDs" -- there are jobs out there where the kids will really learn something. Don't look for a job -- look for a first career spot. It's a chance to try something on. And for a current senior -- this is short term. I don't call it an internship -- it's a JOB. But it's worth doing!</p>
<p>My latest applicant wants to be an accountant. I bet she will be awesome at the daily cash out and money tracking!</p>
<p>Packmom, congratulations to you and your son. You must be very proud of him.</p>
<p>I look on work not so much as something that takes away from ECs, but as another sort of EC. My son was getting excellent grades, had two school based ECs and still had plenty of time to do freelance programming work. If working had impacted his grades, we would have reconsidered, but it didn't. I think he is much like me I got better grades in colleges once I started working about ten hours a week. It kept me from frittering so much time away.</p>
<p>mathmom, the problem is that for hs students involved in hs activities there is not much time to fritter away. They are in school from 8-4:30 and then have 2-3 hours of homework to do. I do not know many adults who would be willing to take on a part-time job after a 50-55 hr workweek unless it was absolutely necessary to keep food on the table.</p>
<p>sjmom, you did not start the idea of the little people, I did! With this quote: "I can't identify with someone who went off to college, went all the way through grad school, got out with their paper and went off to work in a high rise . How does that person empathize with the "little people?"</p>
<p>What I MEANT to say, and should have added, was "without ever having worked a service job" and the "little people down below" (as in sitting in a high rise and looking down). I was speaking figuratively, before people come in and attack me...if all my posts are read, I'm saying that a summer part time job is good for any number of reasons, and volunteerism would do the same thing (but my kids like being paid).</p>
<p>Also, my kids may come from a different background- they attend a private hs where most of their peers are very affluent (we're not- but most of their friends are). I think it's good for them to get out in the real world and see that not every 17 year owns his own car, goes to Europe twice a year, and has a $100 per week allowance for incidentals.</p>
<p>There have been previous threads where mimimal wage jobs have been labeled disparagingly ("burger flippers"). As in "My son/daughter is going to travel Africa this summer, teaching native children how to read. Why would he/she stay around here and flip burgers?" I think part time work for teens has been given a bad rap, especially if the alternative is sitting around doing nothing (boredom?).</p>
<p>For my kids, summer jobs have been a welcome respite from the hustle and bustle of shool. They meet new friends, make a little money, pick up on some skills here and there, and gain a little confidence.</p>
<p>My kids attended a public high school where half the students are on F/R lunch. So I guess the longer they stayed in school (and did not work at the GAP whose clientele is overwhelmingly middle class) the more likely they were to encounter "the little people."</p>
<p>The OP's son is not claiming boredom. The OP's son has said he is willing to take a summer job.
A typical school week is 30-35 hours of class time; at 3 hours of homework a day (the OP's son is #3 and presumably takes challenging classes), it goes up to 45-50 hours. Then there must be football practice and football games. So, another 5-10 hours? We're now talking 50-60 hours. It appears the OP's son has some other ECs as well. Clearly by the standards of adults, the kid is grossly underemployed.</p>
<p>The son of the OP is perfectly willing to get a summer job. I put all jobs whether volunteer or for pay, in same category, but I realize that colleges will expect students to contribute from their paying summer job.</p>
<p>I also don't think that a student with a strong work ethic as this young man has shown, will have trouble finding a job.</p>
<p>My D, * did* have a volunteer job, from 12 years old, through high school graduation. However, she also didn't have a GPA above 4.00, or was captain of a sports team. Actually, she did not even * participate* on a sports team, till her senior year of high school, when I suggested that she try one.</p>
<p>I would agree with the posters that say jobs are a valuable EC. Well- duh. HOwever, not every student should feel compelled to fill every minute of their day.My D for example- had well over 2000 hours committed to her main volunteer job, by the time she graduated from high school. She not only worked it during the summer, but on weekends and after school during the school year.</p>
<p>Its possible, that if she had tempered her involvement, she could have raised her GPA, from a 3.33. But her job was very important to her, and I agreed that it should have a priority. </p>
<p>What I have tried to do, has been listen to my child, give her guidance to make decisions, and as long as her decision is reasonable, allow her to learn from it.
I did have hard and fast rules of course, mainly around safety issues.
I could have just as easily gone another way.</p>
<p>Her sister for example, * needs* sports. She did participate in the same volunteer job, until that program was canceled. There isn't a comparable program nearby, and instead she has increased her sports activity as well as her school work and social life.</p>
<p>She is on one sports team or another, through the school year, with overlap in training and competition. In the summer, she has a similar job, volunteering, with an eye to being paid for it, once she is old enough to do so at 18.</p>
<p>I don't see the importance of having everything scheduled and overbooked.
It reminds me of a young man who skipped high school, went to right to college, and at 19 was working @ Microsoft.
Everyone who knows him ( and Microsoft) thought to themselves * oh gawd- why?*
Stop. And. Smell. The. Roses :)</p>
<p>Mathmom - the freelance programming work that your son did is totally different (schedule-wise) from a retail job in a large chain that is typical for h.s. students in my area. With the freelance work, your son could do it at any time convenient to him. The students are scheduled for certain evenings (often until 10 PM or later) and weekends, and have to find someone to cover for them if they cannot work. They can be fired for missing work. It was really hard for my daughter - she had to find someone to cover for her for her own graduation party, and missed several of her best friends' (whose parents she is very close to also) parties, because she was scheduled. As I said earlier, this was the price she paid for having a job for the summer, as she had the same fear that the OP expressed of not being able to get a job if she waited until school was out. It definitely was not worth the stress, missing things, etc. for her to work during the last few months of her senior year.</p>
<p>If the family needs the income, the kid should work. If they don't need the income, it's a parenting style choice. There are many ways to teach or have the kids learn values - work ethic, respect for the less priviledged, understanding of the more priviledged, the joys of having a salary and the sorrows of not having one - having a job is just one road.</p>
<p>To me this thread is the equivalent of - should I make my kids go to church? For some families the answer is yes. For some the answer is no.</p>
<p>insightful well beyond your years as usual Alu</p>